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My next oud project

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Jameel - 7-25-2004 at 06:28 PM

The first time around I was industrious enough to document almost every step of my oud project. It was a lot of fun but also a lot of work (I took over 500 photos during construction) ( I also had lots of help publishing the website---which I don't have this time around) For those of you who are interested, and through Mike's encouragement and generosity, I will be posting some photos and explanation of my next oud project in this thread. I'll primarily be documenting elements of this project which are different from my first one---some things I'll be trying for the first time. No sense in repeating things that are already available. I'll also post general updates on the construction progress. This will be another Nahat-style oud based mostly on Richard's book, (droud.com) using some measurements I've obtained of Nahats since the last project. My main purpose in this is to share some of the techniques I've learned from being a professional woodcarver/cabinetmaker, and voicing my thoughts during the process in order to learn from mistakes---the best way to improve! I welcome comments and questions and suggestions from other oud makers from the community. Wish me luck.... :wavey:

Making blanks for decorative inlays

Jameel - 7-25-2004 at 06:40 PM

The diamand shape inlay is the reason for the these blanks, but many different designs can be made up from them. I'll use these on the soundboard and pehaps on the back. I started with peices of thin walnut and maple which I resawed from thicker boards and planed to around 2mm, sandwiched with walnut and maple veneers. The blanks are then glued up using a paint roller for a even thin coat, and thick clamping cauls to distibute the clamping pressure. The next step will be to cut these into strips and assemble them into various patterns.

Elie Riachi - 7-25-2004 at 08:14 PM

Hey Jameel,

Great idea, looking forward. Mowafaq (best of luck.)

Elie

Mike - 7-25-2004 at 09:46 PM

Hi Jameel,

You already know that I was addicted to your website when you were in the process of making your first oud. It was great to follow the whole process along with you. I am totally looking forward to doing the same with Oud Number Two. I'm sure it's going to turn out fantastic. I've also topped this thread so it will be easy for us all to find as you continue to update us with your progress.

Best of luck,
Mike

Diamond inlay joining and assembly

Jameel - 7-26-2004 at 03:03 PM

Thanks Mike and Elie. Your encouragement means a great deal. But keep in mind it's summertime, I still have to keep some time for bbq and fishing, you know?

I cut the blanks into strips for easier management, and made a little mitering fixture for cutting the peices out. This was more difficult than I had anticipated. These are small peices that make up the diamond. I thought I could make up some thick diamonds and then slice 1-2mm thick individual diamonds from those to save some labor/time. I'm not sure if the Nahats did it this way, or just assembled the diamonds from thinner strips. I also made a shooting board to guide the plane which smoothed out the saw cuts and established the exact angle--or so I thought. Getting the angles right was very difficult. Even if it is off by one degree, there will be gaps. I tried my best to adjust the angle after the peices were cut out, but there are only a few chances as the piece gets smaller and smaller. The peices are so small that it is difficult to hold them while working them. The results are ok, and you can see that some of the veneer lines don't match up that well. I think I'll try to come up with a more accurate way of planing/cutting the peices. I think the thick diamond method will be better once I master it since I could essentially make about 6 inlays at once.

Elie Riachi - 7-27-2004 at 09:18 AM

Hi Jameel,

Bbq sounds good yum.

I do not if this will be useful for you but here is my suggestion regarding making the angles on the diamonds since it sounds difficult to do with a planer moving is to mount the planer to squared block on its side then clamping the little piece into the shooting board and use that as a guide against the block as you make passes with the work against the planer.

Clamping the little piece can be done by having a bolt attached to the side of the shooting board and using a large enough washer, a wing nut and a little piece of wood which will apply the clamping action to the little work as the wing nut is tightened. I appologize for the low tech illustration, but it is a quick sketch to hopefully clarify what I am rambling.

Regards,
Elie

Diamond inlay shooting fixture

Jameel - 8-1-2004 at 07:17 PM

Elie,

Thanks for the good tips. I thought a few days about your good idea and came up with the following this afternoon. I don't like the idea of metal parts so close to my sharp plane iron, so I swapped out your wing nut for some wood. I tapped the holes for machine screws which clamp the piece in the fixture. The fixture has two ends, one with 22.5 degrees and the other at 45 degrees. I still wasn't able to go right from the fixture to assembly, the angles still aren't dead on. But a little slight planing here and there and I ended up with more satisfactory results, and making the five pieces was easier and quicker. Hopefully for the next session in the shop I'll be making a mold for the back.

Elie Riachi - 8-1-2004 at 09:21 PM

You are very welcome Jameel. I like your design a lot, it is clean, neat and holds work piece securely.

Faladel - 8-20-2004 at 08:55 AM

Hi Mr. Jameel :

I have sent several messages to you and your mail given back them, you can send your correct email to me ???
I send you my message in arabic..

Jameel - 8-20-2004 at 01:56 PM

Hi Faladel,

Try this:

jambraham(at)mchsi.com

replace the (at) with @.

Please write me in English. My Arabic is limited to some church hymns and naturally, my favorite foods! Yabra', koosa baytinjin!

my oud

Faladel - 8-21-2004 at 02:07 AM

Dear Jameel :

Imposible ...Your E-mail...

Thank you very much by you magnify information that you put in the Mikes Web , that teaches much to us. I write to you requesting your expert aid to solve the problem of my OUD. since I have written before in the Web of mike I have a Oud its box has made by Michel Khawwam, the best one luthier in the history of Aleppo, done in 1967 I have bought it to another manufacturer and I have given to Jameel yorgaki Kandalaft the second more important Luthier of aleppo for made me the face.Like Farid Oud.
in 1969,en November I have traveled to Spain to study medicine and have left my oud in house of my parents, 30 years later, have returned to gather ,it was kept in a furniture during these 30 years. I have found that the humidity has damaged to him in the union of the wood near the handle and near the base like I command to you in fotografias, so the drawing near the Shamsieh has been taken off.
in my trip to Syria 3/8/2004, I have taken it to the factory of Ibrahim Sukkar who has repaired it, but I do not like since he has done it, and my questions are:
1- is some better way to solve the problem of the union of the wood of the box???.
2- to paint the box and the face with barnish with pistol like fadel Ouds, conserves better my oud and it does not spoil his sound?
Thank you for your attention and your aid, and very sorry for your Arabic...Like my English... aaaaand I like all foods :-)))))

Jameel - 8-22-2004 at 11:38 AM

Dr. Faruk,

I was able to see the photos of your nice oud. I'm sorry my e-mail isn;t working for you. Try clicking on the link at my website below.

I'm no expert on ouds, just a hobby oudmaker. I'm learning more and more all the time.

Your questions are a bit hard to understand, but I think you are asking how to repair a loose neck, and whether or not to varnish the face. Most oud faces are unvarnished, but some put a little bit. It all depends on how much. The more varnish you put, the less the face will vibrate. As for the loose neck, Dr. Oud has a great book on oud reapir you might want to buy. You can get it here: Dr. Oud. Good luck. You should also post a separate message about your oud so more people see it.

Jameel

my oud

Faladel - 8-23-2004 at 03:53 AM

Hi Jameel :

Thank you very much for your help and for your message.
:applause:

Making the mould

Jameel - 8-29-2004 at 01:50 PM

I decided to make this oud using a mould. The last one was made without, and I ended up with an oud that was about 4cm narrower than I planned. Hopefully this method will eliminate that. I heard that there is a tendency to introduce stress into the ribs when forcing the ribs to conform to the shape of the mould, so I will do my best to make the ribs fit very close without forcing them. The mould is made from 12mm high-quality plywood. I'm not a big fan of particle board, it's not very strong, so I chose this material. I took the measurements from a paper pattern of the oud face, and using a compass at the various points on the pattern I drew the shape of the "bulkheads" and cut them out. This mould will have 5 bulkheads. The mould is 2mm smaller all around to allow for the final rib thickness which will be somewhere between 2 and 3 mm.

Dr. Oud - 9-26-2004 at 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jameel
I decided to make this oud using a mould. The last one was made without, and I ended up with an oud that was about 4cm narrower than I planned. Hopefully this method will eliminate that. I heard that there is a tendency to introduce stress into the ribs when forcing the ribs to conform to the shape of the mould, so I will do my best to make the ribs fit very close without forcing them. ....

Jameel is a fine craftsman and made a fantastic oud his first time. In fairness I must reply to explain that the 4cm width variation was not due to the free-form or mold-less construction process. During the buld up of the back, the edges of the ribs must fit together their entire length without forcing them together. Otherwise the shape is distorted usually resulting in a narrower width or a sharper "corner" in the lower bout. Building without a mold, each rib should be compared with a profile pattern after it is glued in and corrected or replaced if it is out of shape. Using a mold will make this distorsion more evident, in fact the mold will prevent you from fitting the rib if the edge shape is too far off. Forcing the ribs together is not good with either method. To help avoid this misfit, you can bend the ribs in the blank retangular outline without trimming the edges. The next mating edge can then be traced onto the blank from the assembled rib. The next rib edge is then planed down to the scribe line. The open edge would then be shaped flat as usual. If you build with a mold, be sure you have space to make the traced line from the inside. Too many bulheads could make this difficult, a solid mold makes tracing impossible.

Finished Mould

Jameel - 12-18-2004 at 11:24 AM

The finished mould.

Next step: making the tail block and neck block. Stay tuned...

Bending the ribs

Jameel - 12-25-2004 at 04:28 PM

I bent the ribs before cutting them, to help prevent twisting. I got this idea from Samir Azar. Works well. I also didn't soak the ribs, but simply spritzed them with water from a spray bottle on both sides before bending. In reality, the ribs can be bent with heat only. The water evaporates pretty fast anyway, and once the wood is hot it bends pretty easily. This oud is going to have 15 ribs of walnut. This walnut was cut from a 4" thick billet, (I got 19 ribs at 2.3mm each) so every rib has matching grain.

Making some inlay for the back of the oud

Jameel - 12-29-2004 at 06:32 PM

I stumbled on the method for making thus type of inlay. I started with a sketch, and picked 30 degrees as an angle to work with. Of course three 30's make 90, so this is only angle needed to make these little triangles. I didn't use the clamp to plane the blocks, but simply cut them at 30 degrees with a fine saw, which left a very smooth surface for gluing. I used a homemade miter box. It's just a peice of wood with a dado to fit the inlay blank and kerf cut in at 30 degrees. See above for ideas. There are so many different arrangements one can create with these little blocks, this is one that is found on Nahat ouds I've seen.

One more thing...

Jameel - 12-29-2004 at 06:39 PM

This isn't one peice of inlay. After I glue it, I'll cut this piece up and get about 5 slices.

Fantastic...

tezza - 12-29-2004 at 11:00 PM

It's wonderful to watch this project progress Jameel, thanks for posting the pics. Excuse my ignorance, but where is the inlay going on the oud and what's the scale of it, I can't tell from the photo.

Thanks

Jameel - 12-30-2004 at 06:00 AM

Thank you. It goes on the back of the oud, on the bowl. I'll put several stripes in the ribs. It's about 15cm long.

Mike - 12-30-2004 at 09:01 AM

Hey Jameelo,

I'm with Tezza. This is going to be a lot of fun watching your oud project come to life my man. Those strips are going to look awesome on the bowl. It looks like your getting into a groove bud. Keep it up and keep us posted! :applause:

Take care,
Mike

amazing

egypt omar - 1-26-2005 at 02:47 PM

That is simply an amazing piece of artwork. HOw does it sound?

Jameel - 1-26-2005 at 04:22 PM

It is a nice oud, isn't it! Of course I wish I had made it. That's Simon Shaheen's Nahat. I've heard it in person. It sounds great. If everyone promises to behave, I'll post an MP3 of Simon soon.

PROMISED!!

SamirCanada - 1-26-2005 at 05:28 PM

:airguitar:

Neck and tail blocks and 1st rib

Jameel - 1-30-2005 at 10:03 AM

Neck and tail blocks and 1st rib

mavrothis - 1-30-2005 at 01:32 PM

Hey Jameel,

Is this one going to be rosewood?

mav

Jameel - 1-30-2005 at 02:05 PM

Mavro,

I'm not that brave yet

Its walnut

Jameel - 1-30-2005 at 02:11 PM

I was just thinking, too. With the advent of Richard's book, (and ehem, my website :rolleyes:

and Mikeouds being the #1 oud website in the world, where are all the other amateur oudmakers? If you are out there, we'd love to hear about your current project! :xtreme:

Elie Riachi - 1-30-2005 at 09:58 PM

Coming soon!

Mike - 1-31-2005 at 09:36 AM

Good stuff Jameelo...but you are teasing us man. Keep up the good work. :airguitar:

Mike

mavrothis - 1-31-2005 at 03:17 PM

Hey,

Walnut is great man, I just thought the piece looked like a little like rosewood... :shrug:

My friend John here in NY is planning on making a laouto based on your site. Maybe he'll share some pics as he's working on it.

I'm looking forward to your new oud's progress, as I'm sure is everyone else. Maybe someday I'll get the courage to go ahead and make a try at it too...hopefully by then I'll learn to tell the difference between unfinished woods. lol

Take care,

mav

7 ribs

Jameel - 2-13-2005 at 04:20 PM

the project continues....

I made the first a rib a bit narrower by accident (hey, it's been almost 3 years since I've done this :shrug:

so I "decided" to make the bowl with 17 ribs instead of 15.

careful construction......

Jameel - 2-13-2005 at 04:24 PM

.....yields better results. Can you see any glue lines where the ribs meet? I hope not...

more inlay

Jameel - 2-13-2005 at 04:26 PM

made two more inlay blocks last week

mavrothis - 2-13-2005 at 05:55 PM

Beautiful! :applause:

How many soundholes/rosettes are you planning to make this time?

john (beloved) habib - 2-14-2005 at 10:08 AM

looking GREAT!

Elie Riachi - 2-15-2005 at 05:15 PM

Jameel,
I see glue, but no glue lines! Nice work. How did you cut the ribs after bending them (would they clear the bandsaw...)?

Jameel - 2-15-2005 at 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mavrothis
Beautiful! :applause:

How many soundholes/rosettes are you planning to make this time?

The plan is for three.

Quote:

Originally posted by Elie Riachi
Jameel,
I see glue, but no glue lines! Nice work. How did you cut the ribs after bending them (would they clear the bandsaw...)?

Yeah, I'll clean the dried glue after all the ribs are done. I cut the ribs on the bandsaw. I just rotated the rib as I cut it to the line, keep the part your cutting flat on the table and feed the rib through, if you start at the tail end, the neck end will up in the air, as if the oud was standing upright, at the end of the cut, the rib will be positioned as if the oud was laying on its back tilted toward the neck. Understand? You basically slide it. It's kind of hard to explain...

Mike - 2-15-2005 at 05:34 PM

Great stuff Jameel. I'm sure this oud is gonna turn out "jamil".

I can't wait to see how you do the inlay work.

Take care,
Mike

Elie Riachi - 2-15-2005 at 06:51 PM

I was just wondering if the bow was large enough to clear the saw frame as it is rotated while being cut, since it would curl up. Now I understand that it does. Thanks. Looking forward to the putting in the inlay part in the bowl.

New vise, 13 ribs

Jameel - 3-1-2005 at 07:20 PM

Picked up this new "vise" recently for some real versatile positioning of my oud form. It's designed for holding electronics on boats, motorcycles or pretty much anything. It's a ball-and socket arrangement (much luck one's shoulder or thigh bone) of aluminum and hard rubber balls. It's very maneuverable. One drawback is that is doesn't keep the form totally rigid, there's a bit of flex, but it's perfect for gluing up ribs, and inlay. It's great to use.

Video

Jameel - 3-1-2005 at 07:22 PM

Check out this short video of the vise in action. I've also got 13 ribs glued up, only 4 to go!

Mike - 3-1-2005 at 07:26 PM

That's too cool Jameelo...also looks like you're making good progress on the oud. Keep it up my friend!!!

Jameel - 3-2-2005 at 05:34 AM

Thanks Mike. I appreciate the positive feedback!

mavrothis - 3-2-2005 at 06:48 AM

Great work! :applause:

mav

Elie Riachi - 3-2-2005 at 05:59 PM

Jameel that is thinking ahead. It looks like it is going to be very handy when it comes to inlay time. Great idea friend.

Elie

last few ribs

Jameel - 3-6-2005 at 08:38 PM

Thanks fellas for the much appreciated encouragement.

Today I tried to glue the last two ribs on each side. Unfortunately I ran into some problems fitting them. It's difficult to explain, so I'll just say that I decided to make the last rib in each side into two ribs about half as wide. I'm a little dissapointed, but it's only my second bowl, so it's no big deal.

I think the shape of the ribs (the edge shape, not the bend) must have been a little fat here and there, because I'm about 4mm wider than the mold at the face. Heck, that's better than narrower! :shrug:

I have some of my ribs stock left over, so the grain will match perfectly, and these don't get any inlay, so they won't be noticable at all. I must be sure to orient the runout the same, otherwise it will be noticable in the chatoyance. I'm almost there! :xtreme:

Oh yeah, I highlighted the previous rib so you can see the size difference.

More inlay

Jameel - 3-6-2005 at 08:42 PM

I made some more inlay today. A larger more elaborate diamond with Maple, Walnut and Mahogany. Here are some short videos showing how the jigs are used. You can see the jigs in some earlier posts.

Video--cutting the pieces

Jameel - 3-6-2005 at 08:43 PM

Video--cutting the pieces

Video--shooting the long miter

Jameel - 3-6-2005 at 08:45 PM

Video--shooting the short miter and assembly

Jameel - 3-6-2005 at 08:46 PM

Video--shooting the short miter and assembly

Completed the back

Jameel - 3-12-2005 at 05:00 PM

Completed the back today. The shape is a bit off, but for my first time building with a mould, I'm satisifed. The shape of the ribs is very critical. If the taper is just a bit fat, it will multiply with each rib and make the back off-shape. Overall, I liked building with the mould. It didn't really make it easier than without a mold, but it did provide a shape to guide the construction, and with proper fitting and technique, prevent making the bowl smaller than intended.

The bowl

Jameel - 3-12-2005 at 05:01 PM

More...

Jameel - 3-12-2005 at 05:03 PM

bottom view

Jameel - 3-12-2005 at 05:04 PM

The shape of the bowl is a little wider at the widest spot than it should be, about 4mm or so.

Comparing the shape

Jameel - 3-12-2005 at 05:08 PM

The darker outline is the final shape of the bowl. You can see in the lower, wider section, how the shape differs from the pattern. It's a bit assymetrical, but probabaly will be unoticeable on the finished instrument.

Elie Riachi - 3-12-2005 at 08:34 PM

Nice work Jameel. My guess is that a lot of ouds have this same character but we just don't hear about it. Being a perfectionist is a quality of a fine instrument maker.

I have a guess on the cause of this, and it is just a guess. Whe you assemble the ribs, do they also bend across the width of the mould? Looking at the profile of "The bowl," the ribs appear flat. I think the gap may be due to that the calculations of the ribs widths were made without taking into account the straight segmant approximation of an arc, which might be the case in practice. Just a guess.

Thanks for sharing your valuable experience Jameel.

Back scraped clean

Jameel - 3-13-2005 at 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elie Riachi
Nice work Jameel. My guess is that a lot of ouds have this same character but we just don't hear about it. Being a perfectionist is a quality of a fine instrument maker.

I have a guess on the cause of this, and it is just a guess. Whe you assemble the ribs, do they also bend across the width of the mould? Looking at the profile of "The bowl," the ribs appear flat. I think the gap may be due to that the calculations of the ribs widths were made without taking into account the straight segmant approximation of an arc, which might be the case in practice. Just a guess.

Thanks for sharing your valuable experience Jameel.

Thanks Elie. I'll comment on your guess. The ribs do not bend acroos the width. They remain flat. Actually, if the rib is wide (like for 13 rib bowl), it actually gets minutely concave (on the outside face) but not enough to cause any fitting problems. I'm not an engineer, so I don't know why this happens, I'm guessing something to do with compression causes the distortion. Who knows? The discrepancy is caused by two things in my experience. One, making the rib shape (the edge) incorrectly, and bending the rib a small amount differently each time the rib is fit. Imagine the ribs assembled before they are cut to shape, but bent. You would just have a long straight oud-shaped tunnel. When you start tapering the edges, the ribs start to form a circle. To a greater or lesser extent the shape of the rib determines the radius of the bowl. The closer to "square" the rib is, the less of a radius you will end up with. Even one rib that's a bit off will affect the rest. I think for the next bowl I will draw lines on the form to give the exact shape of each rib. (You can see these on Dincer Dalkilic's form). I should have done this on this oud, but foolishly didn't. When I fit each rib I have to re-bend it on the iron, not only since it has opened up since I first bent it weeks ago, but also because it must match the shape of the previous rib. We're only working with 2.3 mm or so, so the edge must match very closely. If it doesn't there won't be enough rib thickness left when the joints are scraped flush. If you go by Dr. Oud's book, the back should be 1.5mm all over, so I guess the alignment could be off quite a bit with a 2.3mm rib. I think nowadays most ouds have thicker ribs. My Sukar has 3mm ribs and is not light. The first oud I made had about 2.3mm, and it was very very light, so this thickness works well for me.

Tail end

Jameel - 3-13-2005 at 04:59 PM

Wiping on some naptha

Jameel - 3-13-2005 at 05:07 PM

Oooooooh.........pretty :xtreme:

Elie Riachi - 3-13-2005 at 05:41 PM

Love the chreography, just missing the belly dancer

That bowl cleaned up pretty good, wow. When is the inlay going in?

I think what you mentioned regarding the marking of the mould will solve this problem. I would like to add to that taking flexible strips of transparent plastic and bending them over the mould then trasfering the marks to the plastic and labeling each strip with a corresponding order on the mould then connecting the marks with a smooth curve. Then cutting along the curves. These curves now are used as templates for the ribs.

Good work bud. .V,,

Mike - 3-13-2005 at 05:45 PM

Wow...what a beauty Jameel! Bravo my friend. I know you've told me the most tedious part for you is the back assembly, so I'm glad that's over for you. It really turned out fantastic! Way to go. Can't wait to see the inlay either.

Take care,
Mike

Elie Riachi - 3-13-2005 at 05:57 PM

Jameel, I would like to add, and I am certain that you have accounted for that but just to be complete, it seems to me that when designing the mould one should make the profile of the edge of the mould's vertical dividers round and the dimensions of the mould to the tip of the round edge would reflect the dimensions of the inside of the bowl.

(Wishfull thinking: but maybe Jameel will have belly dancers for the inlay video

)

dss - 3-15-2005 at 05:39 AM

Jameel, the documentation of your work is incredible and very inspiring.

I wonder how long it will be before you appear on the television show DIY: Handmade Music? I just happened to catch the last episode going step-by-step through the process of making a dulcimer (previoulsy a guitar and mandolin).

See: Handmade Music

Thanks,

Don

PS. Long time lurker on this site and needed to re-register. Great site, Mike.

Jameel - 3-15-2005 at 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elie Riachi
Jameel, I would like to add, and I am certain that you have accounted for that but just to be complete, it seems to me that when designing the mould one should make the profile of the edge of the mould's vertical dividers round and the dimensions of the mould to the tip of the round edge would reflect the dimensions of the inside of the bowl.

(Wishfull thinking: but maybe Jameel will have belly dancers for the inlay video

)

Elie,

The flats on the form really aren't wide enough to affect the shape of the back. Take a look at some of the forms on Ronny's site, they are much cruder than mine. I'm just a beginner, but I'm of the idea that form serves two purposes. 1. Hold the blocks at their proper position
2. give a general idea of the shape of the bowl.
Elie, you should make a mold and get right into making a bowl. I did what you are doing now before I started building---trying to analyze these aspects a bit too much. Just start doing it---that will answer 99% of your questions in about 5 minutes, and save a whole bunch of brain drain in the process. The mold really has nothing to do with fitting the ribs. It's not like to slap the bent rib on the mold, push it to to previous rib and let the glue set. The rib has to be bent very precisely to the shape of the previous rib and jointed so the edge closes with virtually no pressure. I fit my ribs so the joint closes when just barely holding the rib against the previous one. I also have a flexible light that I place inside the bowl to check the joint. If I see ANY light at all through the joint, I fit it until it closes completely--no light at all showing. This makes fitting the rib time consuming (I take about one hour for each rib), but also guarantees that no tension or compression is built into the back. You want the back to basically be the shape that it is on it's own. Imagine removing all the glue from the back at once, you wouldn't want it to spring open at all, just keep it's shape.

Jameel - 3-15-2005 at 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dss
Jameel, the documentation of your work is incredible and very inspiring.

I wonder how long it will be before you appear on the television show DIY: Handmade Music? I just happened to catch the last episode going step-by-step through the process of making a dulcimer (previoulsy a guitar and mandolin).

See: Handmade Music

Thanks,

Don

PS. Long time lurker on this site and needed to re-register. Great site, Mike.

Thanks for the nice comments. There are some real oudmakers here in the US that would make great candidiates for that show. Kyvelos, Najarian, Dalkilic. I wish my cable company carried that network. That looks like a show I would be addicted to!

revaldo29 - 3-15-2005 at 05:30 PM

Hey Jameel,

I see in the last picture you posted of the oud that you have a picture of a nahat on a clip board. Are you making an exact replica of that oud? That shamsiyya looks so awesome.

Adnan

Jameel - 3-15-2005 at 07:21 PM

Adnan,

I'm using several different elements from this oud, (mostly the different inlay styles) and some from other Nahats. I'm not brave enough to try a shamsiyya like that yet. But I will be trying a bone shamsiyya, just a simpler one. If you think that one is nice, you should see the one on Hamza El Din's Nahat. Whoa!

Dr. Oud - 3-20-2005 at 08:14 AM

First, add my commendation for another fine build. Your craftsmanship is superb and your development of new methods is invaluable to all of us.

I believe the original purpose of the mold was to provide a nailing platform to hold the ribs together until the glue set. You can see this in many lute building examples like on Art Robb's website. Examination of the building methods in the workshop pictures on Ronny's Iraqi oud site also shows that they are using the mold just to hold the end blocks. The ribs are then held together with tape. The video of the Egyptian maker reinforces this method, while it appears that he uses a hot iron to remelt the glue possibly to realign the ribs after the build-up.

Even with the use of a mold, the final shape can still vary due to humidity and temperature effects on the ribs. The grain density and direction of the wood in each rib is affected differently, causing the slight asymmetry. I have not seen a perfectly symmetrical oud, by the way and I have seen quite a few ouds. Asymmetry is evident on many old master made instruments, guitars, violins, etc. It's been observed that the pursuit of perfect form has been an outcome of the application of modern fixturing while the old masters didn't concern themselves with shape as much as tonal characteristics.

-great job Jameel, live long and prosper!

Preparing the inlay

Jameel - 3-20-2005 at 05:27 PM

The master has spoken....... :bowdown:

Thanks Doc! Much appreciated.

I sliced up the inlay blocks, and got 4 slices from each. I them bent them. The straight sections were done on the iron, then I laid the piece on the oud and pressed down on the end section with a hand-held iron. The glue softens too, it's a fine line between warm enough to bend, and the whole thing falling apart. I taped them in place while they cooled.

Inlaying the back

Jameel - 3-27-2005 at 08:17 PM

I built a little base for my Dremel Flex Shaft routing tool for routing the inlay recess. First I tacked the inlays in place with just a couple dabs of white Elmer's glue, let that dry for about an hour, then scribed along the edge with an Exacto knife. I removed the inlay peices by heating them slightly with an iron where the glue was and slipping a thin blade underneath to free them. I routed the recess almost to the line, which I then cut up to with a sharp chisel. Since I scribed the outline with the knife, my chisel slipped neatly into the slice and made for a gap-free inlay, unless I slip up, which I did in a couple places if one looks close. I suppose it's good for the ego to have some goof-ups here and there, if they're no so obvious of course.

Video of the inlay

Jameel - 3-27-2005 at 08:21 PM

Two of five strips completed.

Elie Riachi - 3-27-2005 at 10:34 PM

Great Job Jameel :applause:

Faladel - 3-28-2005 at 07:23 AM

Hi Jameel :
Can you post more photo of your a little base for my Dremel Flex Shaft routing tool for routing the inlay recess.
I want built one that I have a Dremel
Regards
:applause:

Mike - 3-28-2005 at 09:22 AM

Impeccable work, as we have come to expect from you Jameel. Keep it up my friend!

mavrothis - 3-28-2005 at 08:22 PM

Jameel! This is wonderful! Keep it coming my friend, congratulations on the great work. Thanks so much for sharing so much with us.

Take care,

mavrothis

old sample

samir - 3-29-2005 at 11:21 PM

hi
here is an old sample of beauty
jameel: your work is fine..

Jameel - 3-30-2005 at 07:31 AM

Thanks fellas for all your nice comments. It means a lot! It's fun to share the progress with you all, and I learn something at the same time :bowdown:

Samir, is that one of your ouds or a Nahat? Very nice. Can we see the rest?

i hope it was

samir - 3-30-2005 at 12:33 PM

it is Badrousian oud

For you, Faladel

Jameel - 3-30-2005 at 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Faladel
Hi Jameel :
Can you post more photo of your a little base for my Dremel Flex Shaft routing tool for routing the inlay recess.
I want built one that I have a Dremel
Regards
:applause:

The extra holes in the acrylic base are from another router I cannibalized the material from.

Bone pieces

Jameel - 3-30-2005 at 04:45 PM

I cut these pieces of bone from a large chunk of bone from my local pet store. The yield is all odd shapes. I soaked them in 40 Power Hydrogen Peroxide (from the beauty supply store) for a couple days and they came out very white. I tried bleach once, but it made the bone flake apart. Peroxide is the way to go. Cutting the bone is smelly, slow, and it dulls blades like there's no tomorrow. I'll use these pieces for some inlay, and perhaps small rosettes. Short of sawing more of this bone (which I'm not crazy about doing), I'll have to somehow come up with some for the shams.

Elie Riachi - 3-30-2005 at 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jameel
I cut these pieces of bone from a large chunk of bone from my local pet store. ...

Jameel,

That must have been a St. Bernard or some large breed of dog. Just kidding.

This bone sounds to much work. Have you considered laser?

Faladel - 3-31-2005 at 06:58 AM

Hi Jameelo:
Thank you very very much Jameel, I´ll try to built one....it is very genius...Thank you.
:applause:

Jameel - 4-2-2005 at 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elie Riachi

Quote:

Originally posted by Jameel
I cut these pieces of bone from a large chunk of bone from my local pet store. ...

Jameel,

That must have been a St. Bernard or some large breed of dog. Just kidding.

This bone sounds to much work. Have you considered laser?

What do you mean, Elie? This stuff is resawn, how would a laser help?

Inlay clamping, Bone inlay

Jameel - 4-2-2005 at 10:26 AM

To clamp the inlay in the back, I taped a curved caul to the back and used a layer of thin cork for padding. To add some pressure to the inlay I inserted some thin sticks between the inlay and cork.

I also began making the bone "points" for the tips of the inlay. I'll need ten. First I glued the pattern onto the bone, then cut it out close to the line with a jeweler's blade, I then sanded the edges to the final shape and filed them straight and square. I'll have to sand some of these to a slight curve to match the back before I glue them in. The back inlay is almost done!

Elie Riachi - 4-2-2005 at 11:43 AM

Nice inlay pattern Jameel. Looking better all the time.
What I meant to suggest is to laser cut the pattern in the shamas if you intend to make out of bone. :applause:

Jameel - 4-5-2005 at 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elie Riachi
Nice inlay pattern Jameel. Looking better all the time.
What I meant to suggest is to laser cut the pattern in the shamas if you intend to make out of bone. :applause:

I see. That's a great idea. The only thing I can think of is the burnt edges might be an issue. Then of course then I wouldn't have the satisfaction of having cut it myself. :rolleyes:

Back inlay complete

Jameel - 4-5-2005 at 05:48 PM

I finished the inlay on the back, including the little peice to cover the rib ends.

LeeVaris - 4-5-2005 at 05:52 PM

Wow...

Mike - 4-5-2005 at 06:00 PM

Bravo Jameelo!!!

I'm blown away my man. Outstanding job my friend.

Mike

mavrothis - 4-5-2005 at 06:01 PM

Geia sta xeria sou Jameel! God bless your hands!

:applause:

oudplayer - 4-5-2005 at 06:14 PM

wow thats hot really hot i loved how we saw nuthin and then one of the most nicist instruments ever. like mav said god bless you and keep up the good work.
thx alot sammy

Greg - 4-5-2005 at 08:08 PM

Jameel,

You are aptly named. Your workmanship is extraordinary.

Regards,

Greg

Elie Riachi - 4-5-2005 at 09:20 PM

Gorgeous! I amazed how those bone diamonds add to the beauty of it. More power to you.

Jameel - 4-6-2005 at 02:11 PM

You guys are too much!!! :bowdown:

Dr. Oud - 4-9-2005 at 04:54 PM

No, Jameel, you are too much. Even your tools look like pieces of art, geez.
In case someone doesn't have a dremel or micro router, here's a tool I use to level out inlay areas. This one is flat for inlaying veneer into a face, but you could make one with a curved base and blade for inlaying into the back or other curvey place. It's executed in my style, made from scraps and second hand hardware, quick and funky but effective. The maple block is drilled at .219 dia and the 1/4-20 bolts cut their own threads the first time you screw them in.
Are you planning a bone fingerboard? I think elk or moose shoulder blades would be big enough, and there are plenty of elk hunters around here. I'll ask one I know at my day job. I bet moose bones would be relatively easy to track down, hmmmm?

habeebkum - 4-9-2005 at 05:06 PM

jameel, u make it look so easy to produce something so beautiful! mashallah 3alaik! hope u keep up the good work and i end up buying one of your ouds in the future!
i am thinking about making a oud, but prob next year when i settle into my new job. i am pretty good with my hands but do i need to be a good carpenter to be able to build one?or have any experience to start from scratch?

statement

egypt omar - 4-15-2005 at 10:41 AM

It looks like quality western craftmanship brought to this wonderful eastern instrument. So much attention to detail and you can tell that the builder/artist who makes it really cares about the craft.

Omar

habeebkum - 4-19-2005 at 01:43 PM

to all the oudmakers out there, is it possible to ask for a basic list of tools needed to either repair or even to make a complete oud? and a rough price for them?

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