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Godin MultiOud

TriTone - 1-21-2011 at 07:35 PM

Has anyone played or heard these in person yet?

http://www.godinguitars.com/godinmultioudp.htm

ExtreamTarab - 1-21-2011 at 08:10 PM

http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=11452

TriTone - 1-21-2011 at 09:09 PM

Thanks and sorry. I actually did a search for Godin in the forums and that did not come up for me for some reason. Can I delete this thread somehow?

Jaffa Road - 1-30-2011 at 07:51 PM

Well I have had one for about three days now and find it very hard to put down.

I am loving it- I am talking about the multi-oud not to be confused with the glissentar (did not like it) and the fretless classical guitar (have not tried it).

I am going to write a a full review for you shortly (early this coming week) and post it here.

It short I think there are some wonderful innovations and so far I thoroughly enjoy playing it. I also have a Godin multiac nylon and the LG-SA electric guitar . I think they are all exceptional instruments.

http://www.jaffaroad.com

TriTone - 1-31-2011 at 09:44 PM

Thanks Jaffa. I look forward to your review. How did you get yours so quick? I am still waiting on my dealer to get back to me with a price and arrival date?

Jaffa Road - 2-7-2011 at 09:01 PM

Hey TriTone

I am not sure when they will be available, I got mine through an endorsement deal with the Godin Guitar Company.
see
http://jaffaroadmusic.squarespace.com/news/

I hope you can get one soon.

I started writing the review.

Here is the summary - I love it! The only thing I dont like about it is that it does not look like an oud, *but it does look pretty cool) just does not look like an oud. Does not have any Middle-Eastern visual aesthetic. As a musical isntrument it is great

fernandraynaud - 2-7-2011 at 10:49 PM

I don't want to be too critical of Godin's design, but I've listened carefully to the available examples, and for some reason the timbre seems more nasal and inert than even on "toilet seat" electric ouds, not to speak of standard acoustic ouds with soundboard-mounted piezos. It's as if it lacked doubled courses (which obviously it does not), or only the bridge played any role in the sound. Is this strictly a matter of the player's choice at the controls, or does the instrument have this specific "dry personality"?

spyros mesogeia - 2-20-2011 at 09:40 PM

Does anyone can tell us the full weight of the instrument?
Also if it comes in seven courses?
and is it included hardshel case?
Thank you all

Jaffa Road - 3-13-2011 at 05:53 PM

Hi

I have finally gotten around to writing and publishing my review of the Godin Multi-Oud

If you go to http://www.jaffaroad.com and click on the "blog" tab in the top right corner under the banner then you will get there.

Feedback welcome.

myeyes2020 - 3-13-2011 at 09:01 PM

Thanks for taking the time to post that review and to share your videos. Very helpful blog/review! Enjoy your multi oud in good health!

spyros mesogeia - 3-14-2011 at 06:44 AM

Hello my friend,
First of all I would like to thank you for the report,
I would like to ask you if its is possible the weight of the instrument.
Nowhere it is officially announced.
the thickness of the fingerboard also?You know,for an oud player the neck of the guitar thickness is not the best possible...

and also I would like to ask you if you did play the instrument with your amplifier with the equaliser to be all flat,and what type of amplifier did you used?What Brand ,or model,so we can have an idea about the sound that would be the most probable.
Thank you for your time
Warmest Regards
Spyros

Jaffa Road - 3-14-2011 at 09:09 AM

Hi Spyros

I will try to make some measurements and post this week. (weight and neck thickness)

The amp used in the three videos:

Live performance with the band = SWR California Blond.
I dont remember the EQ settings but I probably tweaked it to get a good sound.
When ever I plug an oud into am amp I always start by rolling off the mids, that is usually my starting point.

The acoustic sound-- in the home studio is just straight into my DAW with a rode Nt2a microphone.

The amplified sound --the rode nt2a is a few feet back from the amp and the amp is set flat. The amp used is a Yorkville KB 50 (it only has a two band EQ - bass and treble) . I also have a Fishman loudbox 100 which is a better amp for this sort of thing, but it was not in the studio when I was shooting the video and I figured it would be good to hear the oud through a decent but less ideal amplifier.

My guess is that it will sound great through any of the common acoustic guitar amps.

spyros mesogeia - 3-14-2011 at 09:23 AM

Thank you my friend for your quick response,
Warmest Regards
Spyros

mavrothis - 5-17-2011 at 08:15 PM

Hi,

I was invited today by a Godin sales rep in NYC to try out the Multioud and give him my comments/feedback.

I was happy to do it especially since I was curious about the instrument, especially how it sounds and plays.

As it is now, I would not recommend it, though I think they are on to a pretty good start. It seems that Godin is very open to suggestions and perhaps with some needed improvements it will come closer to an acoustic oud sound and feel. I think if they can achieve this, it will be a viable option for oud players who work in generally loud circumstances. The price of around $1500 including a case seems reasonable, as long as they work on the design some more.

What I liked:

- Cutaway
- Onboard preamp w/ lots of cool features - tone seems to stay consistent even as you turn up the volume
- Tuning machines worked pretty well
- Low action
- Will come with a hard case

What I didn't like:

- Treble strings very tinny/piercing, like a floating bridge oud - did not sound natural to me
- High tension on all the strings, even playing near the nut (even though the action is low)
- Tuning machines are spaced much too closely together, uncomfortable to use
- Suggested tuning was strange, but then I realized they were using Daddario strings and they simply believed the wrong labeling of the strings on Daddario's packaging to be correct. You could tune it in either of the standard tunings without any problems.
- VERY heavy - the weight is manageable with a good strap, but will be very noticeable to most oud players
- The pickup and onboard preamp, regardless of the combination of settings used, do not really sound like an oud, at least not like a fixed bridge oud. They need to figure out how to lower the string tension significantly.
- The finish of the Multioud is very plasticky. I suggested they use a more natural finish (which they do on some of their guitars) to highlight the wood grains, which I think would be more enticing to an oud player.

These are my comments regarding the Godin Multioud. It was a pleasure to try it out, and I hope they take my feedback along with what they are hearing from other players to improve on their design. At the moment, my hollow body electric oud by Drew Bradshaw with a simple K&K pickup installed sounds much more like an oud, especially with some extra EQ.

Thanks,

Mavrothi

Sazi - 5-17-2011 at 08:42 PM

Thanks for the heads up Mav. much as I expected, the weight of the Godin guitar I tried was really excessive too, imo.

What eq are you using with your k&k equipped oud? (I used a k&k pre, but sold it, wasn't impressed.)

For those that may not know, the tuning on the D'addario's is written as in Turkish notation, a 4th higher than actual pitch.
No wonder it was tight.

mavrothis - 5-17-2011 at 08:51 PM

Hi,

I did tune the strings down to EABead at the start, so it was not the tuning that made the high tension. It's the design - the bridge is probably causing the tension.

For EQ on my Bradshaw hollow body I've been using a Fishman preamp, b/c I already own it. I've found that with my placement of the pickup inside, I need to cut the mids a little to balance the sound. There are a bunch EQ pedals out there that would work fine too.

I also have not been impressed with the K&K preamp I own - it does not seem user friendly at all, and the sound is not that impressive either, in my opinion.

Thanks,

Mavrothi

spyros mesogeia - 5-18-2011 at 04:04 AM

Thanks bro

.
So my suspitions about the weight were true.3,2 Kg??????
Thanks again,I hope to see you soon.
Spyros

Aymara - 6-13-2011 at 04:22 AM

Hi everybody,

interesting instrument, though there are a few things which make me shudder

I especially don't like the headstock, which reminds me of a mandolin ... further thoughts about this later.

First I would like to thank Aaron (Jaffa Road) for his detailled review and videos ... I saw, he made a further one, which can be found HERE.

I think in this video this instrument sounds very oud-like, but I still find the bass response relatively week compared to a good arabic oud. But this might be caused by the microphones used. In my search for a good oud recording mic, I found the AKG C3000 to be the only large diaphragm condenser below 500€ being able to capture the warm bass of my rosewood oud naturally. But that's a different story

I was very interested in this Multioud, because I have a Godin A5 fretless bass, which I really love. So I found especially Mav's critique very interesting and would like to find out more about his findings:

Quote: Originally posted by mavrothis

What I didn't like:

- Treble strings very tinny/piercing, like a floating bridge oud - did not sound natural to me
- High tension on all the strings, even playing near the nut (even though the action is low)

I'd like to discuss this further.

Mav, you reported, that you used EABead tuning. Might it be, that the tension might be more comfortable with standard CFAdgc arabic tuning? I ask, because I use this tuning with D'Addario strings on my 58,5cm scale arabic oud and the tension is low.
How high is the tension compared to a Turkish oud? I never had the chance to play Turkish tuning. But theoretically using the higher tuning with the same D'Addarios should yield to much higher tension.

You also guessed, that the high tension might be caused by the bridge. I don't think so and ask myself, if the headstock might cause it. What do the others think? Might the angle of a standard pegbox compared to this flat headstock's angle play a role?

Regarding the trebble string's sound ... this might be caused by the ebony saddle in the bridge. Maybe it would have been a better choice by Godin to use a horn saddle? A further thought leads to the nut ... I expect it to be a Tusq nut as on my Godin bass. Might a bone nut improve the trebble sound?
Or maybe different strings would make a big difference? This idea is inspired by reports I read about the Glissentar, where some guitarists reported, that Thomastik-Infeld flatwound classic guitar strings made a big improvement to it's sound and playability.

I would be happy, if Aaron could tell us more about his experience with this instrument ... do you find the tension also very high? Which tuning did you use? And what do you think about my suspicion, that the bass response is sub-optimally captured by the mics in your videos?

PS: I found a further video with very good sound quality ... HERE ... it's from the music trade fair Frankfurt 2011. Don't get shocked, only the first 20 seconds are in German, the rest in English and the playing starts at 2:35.

fernandraynaud - 6-13-2011 at 07:29 AM

Hi, Chris,
What is your current setup as regards pickups and preamps? I just played a couple of gigs with my Sukar 212 fitted with the K&K classic dual head placed as per their recommendation. I fed the signal into a Roland ME-25 multi effects pedal, then into a submixer nearby then into the big house PA, and it was very usable, with feedback manageable by programming the ME-25 and using the pedal for volume. I actually loved using guitar type effects on the oud.

Aymara - 6-13-2011 at 07:40 AM

Hi Tony!

Quote: Originally posted by fernandraynaud

What is your current setup as regards pickups and preamps?

I still record with the AKG C3000 directly attached to my Tascam US-122 MkII audio interface. I use Reaper as my DAW with build-in effects mainly. For my Les Paul and the Godin bass I also use a Pocket Pod combined with a good heaphone for practicing.

Quote:

I actually loved using guitar type effects on the oud.

I very much like using delay for a special effect, which is called dotted 1/8th as far as I remember ... others just call it Trance Guitar ... can you imagine, how this would sound on oud

I developed a special guitar style in the late 80ies based on this effect. The guitarist of U2 got famous for using such effects too.

You might remember the MP3 I sent you last years, where combined this effect with a tapping technique on my bass.

Chorus is sometimes also a nice effect for the oud. If I get my crazy 5 minutes I also like distortion

I hope I don't get stoned by the traditionalists

... no offence intended!

Jaffa Road - 10-18-2011 at 07:31 PM

Hi
I have been away from the forum for some time - I hope everyone is well.

Here is a video shot in May of me performing an oud solo with Jaffa Road in the context of jazz/middleeastern fusion.

Here you can get an idea of what the multioud sounds like on a medium size rock and roll stage (Center Stage in Atlanta GA)

The DI was plugged into a small Genz Ben Acoustic guitar amp AND the body of the oud was miced with a SDM.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Iu1TTlKT74&feature=related

Aymara you asked "I would be happy, if Aaron could tell us more about his experience with this instrument ... do you find the tension also very high? Which tuning did you use? And what do you think about my suspicion, that the bass response is sub-optimally captured by the mics in your videos?"

I really like the tension /feel of this instrument I dont find it high, but I tune ARabic style with a low C. I have tried tuning it up a tone just to see what it sounds like and it has a different, nice bright tone when tuned up.

I think the bass response is captured - this instrument has less bass response than a traditional Arabic oud. I think it makes it sound different, not better or worse - just different and I like it. I think it sounds like something in between an Arabic oud and a Bashir oud, slightly less loud.

Greg - 10-19-2011 at 05:19 AM

Whilst it is a delightful performance, I think the link you posted was wrong.

Could it be this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EaW-b9s81o

Regards,

Greg

Aymara - 10-19-2011 at 09:37 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Jaffa Road

I really like the tension /feel of this instrument I dont find it high, but I tune ARabic style with a low C.

Good to know ... I was a bit worried, that it might have a too low tension, when tuned down to arabic C tuning.

Quote:

I think it sounds like something in between an Arabic oud and a Bashir oud, slightly less loud.

Interesting comparison, thanks.

BTW ... nice performance in the video.

Jaffa Road - 10-19-2011 at 06:04 PM

Thanks Greg, I must have had two windows open and copied the wrong link.
You found the right one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EaW-b9s81o

ericzang - 10-20-2011 at 01:44 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Aymara

Quote: Originally posted by Jaffa Road

I really like the tension /feel of this instrument I dont find it high, but I tune ARabic style with a low C.

"Good to know ... I was a bit worried, that it might have a too low tension, when tuned down to arabic C tuning."

I just got one in today. I will try it out comprehensively and if I don't like it I should be able to return it (which is why I decided to get it first over other makes).

I will spend some good time with it tweaking it as much as I can to my liking before I make any final conclusions. Regarding tension, I think it is good at Turkish pitch (it is Turkish scaled 585mm). I usually will need it at Arabic pitch and here the included strings (don't know what brand they are) were acceptable for the wound strings but too loose for the plain nylon higher strings (g & c).

So far, it seems there is a little bit lower volume of the nylon higher strings compared to the wound ones (admittedly this is not unusual in my experience of some Turkish ouds tuned down to Arabic), but when tuned down to Arabic pitch this volume difference was made more apparent and makes me definitely want to use higher tension strings for those 2 courses.

I'm going to replace the strings with Aquila Arabic CFadgc "normal" tension (supposedly regarded actually as high tension) and see how it feels. I have had some success doing this on Turkish ouds when needing them to be at Arabic pitch. It was not perfect but close enough to be acceptable for me.

By the way, I've noticed many Turkish recordings, that include an oud (oh nice rhyme there :applause:

), are also playing at "Arabic" pitch. Hmmm... I wonder how they are managing it?

I will comment on the tone later after I have explored all the preamp eq possibilities (you can eq both the pickup sound and the image sound), my own outboard eq, and using preferred strings (after being worn in. I don't like the new string sound, I prefer a mellow warm tone).

I'll be happy to post my recordings, made directly from the output of the instrument, when I have arrived at my best result. This may be a few weeks at least because the strings need to be worn in I figure.

Aymara - 10-20-2011 at 02:49 AM

Quote: Originally posted by ericzang

... here the included strings (don't know what brand they are) ...

As far as I know, Godin's strings are made by D'Addarrio ... that's definitely the case on my Godin 5-string fretless bass and I remember, I read somewhere in a Multioud review, that it's the D'Addarrio Turkish oud string set.

Let us know, how you like the Aquilas on the Multioud ... tension and sound wise.

Another option might be to use a Kuerschner oud string set with PVF trebble strings. That's what I would choose, because they are of finest quality and you can order the tension you prefer.

Jaffa Road - 10-20-2011 at 07:47 PM

Hi ericzang
I cant be totaly sure because I did not take before and after measurements with an SPL meter but mine seems louder after replacing the original strings with Aquila Nylgut, slightly richer sound also.

ericzang - 11-4-2011 at 02:46 AM

Here's my first sample:

http://ericzang.com/tmp/godin_oud_test.mp3

This is direct from the instrument output into the computer audio interface (roland octa-capture, 1/4" input set for line level). No mic, no amp/speaker. No processing applied. I'm satisfied with the sound. I think it will fit fine for fusion gigs and casual traditional-esque performances. The sound sample above is with the included strings, tuned to Turkish pitch B F# b e a d, played with a Pyramid "khalafoud.com" pick.

I spent some time with the onboard preamp and adjusted the eq for both the pickup and the aura image (using image #3). It has 3 bands. I boosted the bass a little on the pickup, but boosted all the way up for the image. I reduced the highs to almost minimum for both the pickup and image. The mids are down a little for the pickup, and flat I think for the image. Blend of pickup/image is set to 50/50.

I'm very happy with the playability. It feels smooth. The truss rod is great to be able to adjust the action with. It can be nice and low. The tension at the above tuning is good (the -a- string could be a tiny bit tighter). Soon I will put on the Aquila Arabic "normal" tension set and tune it to Arabic pitch and see how that feels. The neck feels a little thicker than what I am used to, but it is slight and I have no problem with it and adjusted easily to it.

The weight of the instrument feels fine to me. Certainly heavier than an oud, but not uncomfortable. I haven't tried standing with a strap yet.

The practicality of this instrument is great for gigging (flat profile, flat hard case, built in tuner & preamp, truss rod, mechanical tuners, and fits well my cheap little fender folding guitar stand). I haven't tested in a very loud band situation yet though.

Cons:
it is fresh from the factory and still has some lacquer smell or something like that.

I had to return the first one I got because the preamp malfunctioned the first day and no sound would come out. (The return process was easy though.)

Doesn't look as cool as an oud (though looks fine), but maybe I can have an artist friend make a design on it...

ericzang - 11-15-2011 at 08:09 PM

I've now changed the strings to the Aquila Arabic normal tension set. The sound is good, perhaps better in warmth/fullness (but I didn't do an A/B recording comparison yet).

I have encountered a significant problem. I have a buzz/rattle (not the kind of tolerable low action subtle fretless buzz) in the higher pitch G string (nylgut). But interestingly only with the one in the pair that is closer to the ground. These Aquila strings are a bit thicker and I think this is the issue. The buzz occurs mostly near the nut. I've tried adjusting the truss rod but this did not help. I suppose if I could raise the nut a very tiny amount this could fix it. (I put a piece of paper in the notch of the nut to raise the string and this worked, but made the string pair uneven in height).

For now I have replaced the single problem string with the smaller diameter d'addario string that it came with and I do not have the problem (of course it is lower tension, but having the other Aquila still on helps).

Jaffa Road, what tuning are you using with what set of Aquila's? I suppose you didn't have this issue.

Also, I had one loud gig with it so far. I didn't have time to test for feedback because we didn't have a sound check. The monitor was in front of me about 4 feet or so, though off to the left perhaps a few feet. I did have feedback issues, mostly sounding like an open string ringing out, though I don't recall if that was exactly it, but I did notice that open strings were being sustained more than usual. The phase switch helped, I didn't have a chance to engage the automatic feedback notch feature. So, it is not fool proof but I assume workable when adjusted properly. I'll need to test again.

Do the empty frame (toilet seat) types ever have feedback issues?

ericzang - 1-6-2012 at 04:40 PM

quick update: I changed strings to individually selected Pyramid lute strings. I needed more tension. I'm still experimenting, but it is better than the Aquilas. I don't have the above nut buzz problem anymore, the Pyramid treble strings are thinner (carbon/pvf). The Pyramid wounds when new are very squeaky sounding with left hand slides, so I did the "polishing" trick with very fine (1600) grit sandpaper. With the gauges I have now, the treble strings are a little louder than the wound strings, I think because the tension is a little higher for those. I can post the gauges later if anyone is interested. The sound is good.

Aymara - 1-7-2012 at 03:27 AM

Quote: Originally posted by ericzang

I'm still experimenting, but it is better than the Aquilas.

I guess, the best choice would be an individually manufactured set from Kuerschner.

Quote:

I can post the gauges later if anyone is interested.

I think a sound sample or video would be more interesting

fernandraynaud - 1-7-2012 at 04:27 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Aymara

Quote: Originally posted by ericzang

I'm still experimenting, but it is better than the Aquilas.

I guess, the best choice would be an individually manufactured set from Kuerschner.

But, Chris, you first have to know what exactly you're aiming for. I think Eric is doing exactly the right thing - I can't see the point of "just order a custom set"!

I too would love some videos, very curious about this instrument.

Aymara - 1-7-2012 at 05:43 AM

Quote: Originally posted by fernandraynaud

I can't see the point of "just order a custom set"!

The point is, that Mr. Kuerschner is a very experienced string manufacturer and you just have to tell him, what you tried, what the result was and what you want to achieve. And I bet, he'll sell you the strings you need

I think, it's worth a try.

ericzang - 2-13-2012 at 04:16 AM

Thanks, yes, I will like to go for Kuerschner next, now that I have a better idea of what gauges I might like to try next. I think I will like a little more tension on the wound strings. I like the carbon PVF trebles from the Pyramid lute series.

Because you asked, here's a little video. Audio is just the from the video camera, getting the sound through the speakers in the room. I think I still had the Aquilas on at this time.

http://ericzang.com/tmp/godin_improv_ericzang.mp4

After some more gigs, I find feedback is not fool proof in very loud situations. I still need to be careful and make proper eq compensation. But, I haven't yet gotten familiar with the onboard preamp's auto feedback reducing feature.

String sustain is much longer than I am used to. This is nice for long slides, helping to do Indian flavored phrases. It is bad for the extra long sustain on open strings that keep sounding longer than I'd want, such as when supporting phrases with a lower octave open string.

fernandraynaud - 2-13-2012 at 07:32 AM

Eric, there's no question that something like this instrument could help make the oud more "mainstream". Enjoyed your playing. Do you feel like it's an oud you're playing?

If sustain is a problem, I wonder if muting the strings a little at the saddle might be appropriate?

Is the fingerboard very polished? Could it use a tiny bit of "roughening" to cut the sustain a bit?

On the looks, which, whether we like it or not, play a role, I sure wish Mr Godin were'nt such an arrogant "improver", because the look of those Spanish guitar-style tuners is unfortunate. It strikes me as the ugliest part of the instrument. He could use some planetary gear pegs, or friction type, and preserve the back-leaning head, or something original and more attractive ...

Aymara - 2-14-2012 at 10:16 AM

Quote: Originally posted by fernandraynaud

I wonder if muting the strings a little at the saddle might be appropriate?

I think that's it, but it's not an easy task. I might also be worth discussing this with Mr. Kuerschner, when ordering a custom string set. I think he can help.

Quote:

Is the fingerboard very polished?

It seems to be exactly the same as on my Godin fretless bass ... pure unpolished ebony.

Quote:

He could use some planetary gear pegs, ...

I'm totally with you, Tony ... I also wish he would have used planetary violin pegs. But that would have raised the price noticably. A further reason was his intention to build an oud for guitarists, I bet ... this might have been the main reason.

Too bad ... this peg box is too ugly ... I even hate this design on my 12-string acoustic guitar

paulO - 2-14-2012 at 12:05 PM

Not bad sounding in Eric's video -- certainly better than many amplified acoustic ouds I've heard over the years. I guess if you need to play loud, then this is a viable option to be considered along with all the other "specially made to be an electric" ouds. Actually, the sound in this video is far more natural than the one in Godin's own NAMM show promotional videos.

On the pegbox -- the instrument is built to a price point, know what I mean. As far as mainstreaming...it was reviewed in Acoustic Guitar Magazine in this or last month's issue, by a guitarist...not an oud player.

If you need to play loud enough to encourage feedback from an instrument like this, you should be using a Najarian, or some other solid body alternative - and using custom earplugs on every gig.

Thanks for the clip Eric.

Regards..Paul

Aymara - 2-14-2012 at 12:26 PM

Quote: Originally posted by paulO

Actually, the sound in this video is far more natural than the one in Godin's own NAMM show promotional videos.

Yes, correct.

jack - 2-24-2012 at 10:27 AM

Here's a video I just found which gives a good sound sample of the multioud.
http://youtu.be/Xh52VahWrAY

I had the opportunity to hear a multiloud played alongside an Arabic oud at a Yair Dalal concert recently, and, in my very humble opinion, the Arabic oud had much greater depth, voice, and potency. The multioud sounded very flat and stale comparatively.

Aymara - 2-25-2012 at 01:22 AM

Quote: Originally posted by jack

... the Arabic oud had much greater depth, voice, and potency.

No wonder, a good bowl design and wood choice can do wonders to an arabic oud. The Multioud has no bowl and is mainly designed to be played electric.

rudeog - 6-5-2012 at 10:20 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Aymara

I know it's an old thread, but I got the multioud (still deciding whether I'm keeping it) and found out from Godin support what strings the multioud are shipped with: Godin A11 Glissentar strings.
Info about these strings:
(.22, .22, .028, .028, .025, .025, .029, .029, .033, .033, .041)

excentrik - 6-6-2012 at 02:57 AM

It's not an Oud...

Tarik

rudeog - 6-6-2012 at 06:53 AM

Quote: Originally posted by excentrik

It's not an Oud...

Tarik

Yep, thats for sure. I'd say it's more like an acoustic-electric guitar that has the strings configured like an oud. Feels nice to play, but sounds more like a guitar. Also, the strings at the nut are spaced slightly further apart than those on my turkish oud (maybe like 1 or 2 mm wider for the overall width).
Still fun to play as long as you are not after the authentic sound.

excentrik - 6-7-2012 at 01:25 AM

Quote: Originally posted by rudeog

Quote: Originally posted by excentrik

It's not an Oud...

Tarik

For sure! I'm totally down with new experimental takes on the instrument, however I'm still stalwart in my notion of what an oud is... Not tripping, just saying...

Tarik

norumba - 6-21-2012 at 08:29 AM

Interesting thread. .. I havent played one yet, but based on the clips, the sound is all wrong. Most of of the 'toilet seat' electric ouds sound better, IMO. And the details people have mentioned -- sustain, peg box, nut spacing etc -- tell me this just isnt the ticket. And I need at least 12 strings on mine anyway

I think in general, the shallow body and /or closed top approach to electric ouds is never successful. Its the worst of both worlds: it wont by itself have the natural warmth and resonance of a full acoustic build, but it will still feed back. Thats a lose - lose situation.

I have a K& K set up in my Iraqi Fadel. That goes through a stereo pedal board ( wah on oud is fab

) then a 50 watt tube stereo rig on stage, and that in turn gets sent to the house -- and no feedback problems ever.

If you're getting feedback, then a) your stage level is too loud or b) it's too directional relative too your position -- usually its the combination of both.

If you're playing a small stage and /or have to use the stage amp as the main source of volume (i.e. no PA) then its a losing battle, and no shallow body design will cure that ill. Bite the bullet, be pragmatic and get a 'toilet seat' oud for those gigs. Im about to bite that bullet myself!

dkhoury35 - 6-21-2012 at 02:17 PM

don't like it at all sorry !!!!!!! It sounds nothing like a oud !!!!!!

rudeog - 6-22-2012 at 10:23 AM

I ended up returning mine a couple weeks back. I wasn't entirely sold on it, but the deciding factor was that the pickup level was very low (maybe a defect in the one I got). I really enjoyed the way it felt to play it, and my opinion is that in a live gig in the area that I live with my band which has multiple drummers and other loud string instruments, nobody's going to be listening to (let alone hearing) the nuances of the oud and saying 'that doesnt sound like an oud'. Regardless, it doesn't look like an oud, and so, this might sound silly, but it just doesn't look authentic, and our band gets a lot of mileage on the fact that we are playing "weird ancient looking middle-eastern instruments" here in the Southern US where most of the time people come up to us to say something like "you guys are cool! what instrument is that?".

The multioud looks like a short guitar with a weird shape, and there are no shortage of those.

norumba - 6-22-2012 at 11:12 AM

Quote: Originally posted by rudeog

. Regardless, it doesn't look like an oud, and so, this might sound silly, but it just doesn't look authentic, and our band gets a lot of mileage on the fact that we are playing "weird ancient looking middle-eastern instruments" here in the Southern US where most of the time people come up to us to say something like "you guys are cool! what instrument is that?".

The multioud looks like a short guitar with a weird shape, and there are no shortage of those.

I dont think thats silly at all. I hadnt thought about that, but come to think of it, we've had the same experience. People are hypnotized by the exotica of an oud, and this one wont have that.

fernandraynaud - 6-22-2012 at 05:53 PM

All very true. So what can you tell them that toilet seat thing is? As ugly as those things look, I never understood why they don't put a decorative "soundboard" over the frame. Maybe get a hinged toilet lid. And don't forget a hanging chain and handle.

I remember a tragic tale from the Soviet days. The director of an institute was trying to replace the piece of string that had long replaced the chain in the toilet. But it had to go through committee, and budgeting. Moreover, putting in a request to replace the string would indicate that someone "on the inside" had stolen the chain, and/or that someone wasn't doing his job. Dangerous stuff. Deliberations went on for the better part of a year, with the string, meanwhile, looking more and more tragic. Finally the voted-on solution was to get a clean piece of string.

periklistsoukalas - 3-19-2013 at 11:47 AM

Hello Ayamara.

Regarding your comment about the headstock of the multi oud i have the same opinion on aesthetic BUT there's one more most important think about tension.
The traditional oud pegbox is made in a way that can lower the tension of the strings and this kind of headstocks are really a big false ! You can see also electric guitars using the 'tune-o matic' brigde and stop tailpiece which is adjustable so you can choose your prefer height and so the strings tension !
I've been playing oud for like 35 years now and i've been tried hundreds of ouds around the world as i own many also. So i notice the difference of the pegbox angles according to the construction preferences of each luthier and every tradition and it does a difference to the tension.
Of course using proper strings according to the calculation of vibrating length, material and for specific tuning so to have a proper Newton for my pressure and finally strings tension.

So it is a problem of tension for ouds (and other multi stringed - short necked instruments) when the luthier's preference comes to a straight pegbox.
It always gives me the idea of them having tried low quality construction and material ouds with awful pegs that are more sensitive to climate changes. Of course when you have a proper pegbox with good ebony pegs tunning are becoming like butter and stable and i can say even better to use than a gear peg ! If there's some small issue on stability or adjusting of the peg then we can always use the good old times chalk & soap solution !

Regards
Periklis Tsoukalas

periklistsoukalas - 3-19-2013 at 11:59 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Aymara

Hi everybody,

interesting instrument, though there are a few things which make me shudder

Quote: Originally posted by mavrothis

Hello Ayamara.

Regarding your comment about the headstock of the multi oud i have the same opinion on aesthetic BUT there's one more most important think about tension.
The traditional oud pegbox is made in a way that can lower the tension of the strings and this kind of headstocks are really a big false ! You can see also electric guitars using the 'tune-o matic' brigde and stop tailpiece which is adjustable so you can choose your prefer height and so the strings tension !
I've been playing oud for like 35 years now and i've been tried hundreds of ouds around the world as i own many also. So i notice the difference of the pegbox angles according to the construction preferences of each luthier and every tradition and it does a difference to the tension.
Of course using proper strings according to the calculation of vibrating length, material and for specific tuning so to have a proper Newton for my pressure and finally strings tension.

So it is a problem of tension for ouds (and other multi stringed - short necked instruments) when the luthier's preference comes to a straight pegbox.
It always gives me the idea of them having tried low quality construction and material ouds with awful pegs that are more sensitive to climate changes. Of course when you have a proper pegbox with good ebony pegs tunning are becoming like butter and stable and i can say even better to use than a gear peg ! If there's some small issue on stability or adjusting of the peg then we can always use the good old times chalk & soap solution !

Regards
Periklis Tsoukalas

Oud Freak - 3-21-2013 at 05:27 AM

Quote: Originally posted by periklistsoukalas

Hello Ayamara.

The traditional oud pegbox is made in a way that can lower the tension of the strings and this kind of headstocks are really a big false !

Hi, how is that? could you please explain ...
Thx.

OF

Aymara - 3-22-2013 at 03:01 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Oud Freak

...how is that? could you please explain ...

This is a very interesting question, which came to my mind too.

And how about the lute in comparison, which has a straight pegbox too.

Might the angle of the pegbox play a more important role?

periklistsoukalas - 5-11-2013 at 04:08 AM

It is an issue of combining some parameters like vibrating string length strings material strings diameters length of the instrument and of course tuning ! Lutes are basically chord instruments (they use to company Viols and other let's say a little bit more 'solistic' instruments). Tension of the strings are different from ouds ! I don't think it can be any comparison to it's ancestor lute. I've been studying renaissance lutes of all types and there's way different construction and playability needs of lutes and ouds. Of course i can't explain it as a luthier can but i got my results of course not only reading but trying. I think everyone will come to a conclusion after it. Generally as i wrote angled pegboxes can offer softer playing (only if you're using the correct strings for the preferred tuning) but tuning instability.. Of course compare to more 'straight' pegboxes. To me Godin multi oud's pegbox although is a 'straight' pegbox i got no feeling of tension at all ! To me is a very soft and fast playing fingerboard in E and D tunings. Tuning stability is amazing (if you put on the 'correct' strings and have them 'prepare' first) and no needs of choke & soap good old tradition solutions .

periklistsoukalas - 5-11-2013 at 11:15 PM

Let me write my review to the Godin Multi Oud too.

First the instrument weight 2.46 kg and you got the feeling that the neck is the most heavy part opposed to traditional ouds. Its unique shape though is very comfortable of holding in the right way (only with your right arm). Pegs are working extremely and unexpected good and there is no comparison to the Cümbüş pegs or headstock at all (although they look similar) so forget the choke & soap good old tradition solutions. Neck profile and wood feels like butter and the mat finish is of a kind that helps easy moving - slippering and of course the ebony on the fingerboard too. For me is one of the best necks in oud ever ! I've found lower actions in ouds but this one feels even lower in playing although it's normal (can be adjusted via truss rod). Strings tension is normal (although the pegbox is 'straight') in tunings E (d a e B F# C#) and D (c g d A E B) and for those who like the 'Kız' or 'Mansur' low by using the 'bam teli' as drone they can change the 'bam teli' to a thicker one according to the system - tuning. What amazes me is two things 1. the clearanceness - perspicuousness and 2. the long sustain ! If you check the soundboard's thickness and the wood grain lines position it doesn't seem to be able to give this king of elements but it is !! With these two elements i can even play Sarod techniques and phrases on it !! As for the tone color comes to personal taste. The oud is an innovation experiment so the sound too and i mean according to my taste the sound can be described as very sweet. No semi hollow Oud has this sweetness and rich sound that i had tried ever ! Of course i can't compere it to full hollow body oud loudness and bass but only to semi hollow as it is its category. As for the Fishman unit is the best ever Fishman i owned and tried. Multiple functions and sound adjustments in order to get what you want for a clean, distorted or effects filtered result. No other piezo system can give you all these choices. You can adjust the blend between the piezo system (pickup) and the 'body' sound you can save your settings (of the equalized body sound) in 4 presets and more. I think it will make your sound engineer happy at last !! Please double check the condition of the Fishman piezo unit as it's not only one time i heard it has some problem or even broken (like mine!!). Of course if you want to get inside the electric sound of the oud i can ensure you it is a loooong trip. Just get start with a good preamp (i suggest you the German handmade 'Lehle sunday driver' better and far beyond other tube preamps in market) a good EQ (at least 6 bands) and as for the power amp category (acoustic instruments amp or electric instruments) is up to your taste. Finally for me it became one of my beloved ouds capable to do things that others can't more handy and all time close and still can't escape the feeling that it comes from a guitar luthier and not from some of the famous and super expensive world renowed luthiers !!!
Thank you
Friendly
Periklis Tsoukalas

p.s. i apology for my not so good English

Christian1095 - 6-6-2014 at 08:55 AM

Two days ago I received a Godin Mulitioud. Overall, I really like the instrument and wanted to share my thoughts....

I play oud with a small ensemble that caters to the local bellydance crowd in Charlotte North Carolina. I have a owned a toilet seat oud from Sukar and while it was nice, I could never really get it to sound legit - that being said, I don't know if you can ever really get one to sound legit... I normally play my Sukar with a K&K twin spot run though a LR Baggs Para DI... It has served me pretty well but can have feedback issues. I also have a Shehata oud with bridge pickup....

I think the first thing to do is to NOT think of the multioud as an Oud. I'm not really sure how to describe the sound, but it sounds to me like a guitar and a cumbus had a lovechild. If you're looking for it to sound like a real oud, then you're probably not going to like it much.... That being said, I do like the sound and I think it has a lot of possibilities.

The overall construction is top notch. It feels like a solid instrument. Most of the toilet seat ouds I've seen (and the one I've owned) can't compare to the quality you get from Godin. And, last time I checked Ebay, everybody seems to think their toilet seat is worth a lot more than I would be willing to pay ($500-$800 USD). My Sukar electric was nice, but it was no where near the quality that you get from Godin.... Not even close...

The width of the strings (both at the bridge and the nut) are wider than any of the ouds I've played... I kind of like it, but it make it feel more "guitar like" to me... Not really bad, just different.

Just like everybody else, I think the headstock looks awful. Middle Eastern instruments are supposed to have a bent headstock and I have a hard time getting past that. The tuners are nice... they're a little close together, but they are top notch. The neck is awesome. The action is really low and it's extremely comfortable to play.

The electronics are great. I really like the ability to blend the inputs together. Playing it acoustically, it's on par with my shehata oud in terms of volume... Not very loud at all. Plugged into an amp it's awesome (Roland Cube) On a scale of 1 to 10, I would give it a 10 for playability... It's really nice and I'm looking forward to performing with it... Again, if you expect it to sound like an oud, it won't.... but again, I'm playing for American audiences and we're playing pretty loud... so the loss of some of the oud sound is not as big a concern as having a top notch instrument that will give consistent performance and is easy to play.

So, if you're thinking about spending $1500 USD and looking for an authentic oud sound, then I would suggest one of the ouds from MauriceOudshop. But if you're looking for a stage instrument and already have a nice oud, then I think you could have a lot of fun with the multioud.... just don't expect it to be something it's not.

hussamd - 6-9-2014 at 04:24 AM

Good solid wood. The preamp electronics are heavy too.