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building five new ouds

sabbassi - 5-12-2011 at 07:12 AM

Hi Guys,

I would like to share with you the build progress of my new ouds. one have already fnished bowl: Wenge.
the others are from left to the right.

Indian roswood, Moroccan Flamed walnut, Walnut/Paduk and Mahogany/paduk

I will post more pictures as I progress.

bulerias1981 - 5-12-2011 at 09:34 AM

hehe, nice, thats a lot of work to be doing at once!

sabbassi - 5-12-2011 at 10:35 AM

It is lot of work, I have not been working lot in the winter. but Now the sun is shining, cold beer etc...
I enjoy making the ouds listening to Abduwahab or Sunabti..

thanks mate.

Brian Prunka - 5-12-2011 at 10:45 AM

Nice!

Wow man

Yaron Naor - 5-12-2011 at 10:52 AM

That seems to be a lot of work...
Good luck
Yaron.

Microber - 5-12-2011 at 12:08 PM

Hello Samir,
A friend of mine brought back from Casablanca an oud made by Khalid Belhaiba. The bowl is made of a very nice walnut. Is it the same one you are using on yours. If yes, it is a very nice one.
Can't wait to see the work in progress.
:applause:

Robert

sabbassi - 5-12-2011 at 12:49 PM

Hi Robert,

Yes it is the same. it's funny I bought it for khalid myself for both of us from Marrakech. Moroccan walnut is so beautiful and flamed is very rare. the Moroccan walnut is rarely find outside the county because the tree is an Endangered species, so a very small quality is sold.

thanks

samir

Update

sabbassi - 5-20-2011 at 05:20 AM

After 2 rolls of tape and lot of Titebond glue, 4 Bowls are finished. the last oud still need the last Rib.

So far so good, every things goes smooth. The Padouk was hard to bend but with lot of heat and steam it was possible.
The padouk is known of its good sound charachterisques and very nice in combination with Walnut and Mahogany.

mourad_X - 5-20-2011 at 05:27 AM

wow, samir this looks very nice :applause:

and i love paduk
i have one turkish oud with paduk/walnut
it is so nice....

best regards
mourad

bulerias1981 - 5-20-2011 at 07:39 AM

Wow sabbassi,

You're a hard working animal! Congrats. Keep up it. I'd like to see how they turn out.

Microber - 5-20-2011 at 09:22 AM

Five ladybirds in Amsterdam !
:cool:

sabbassi - 5-20-2011 at 01:19 PM

Thank guys

I was very busy this nights. now that the first step is done .pppffffffffff. I can concentrate on the soundbaord, braces etc.
4 ouds will be mounted on European spruce tops.
1 on American ceder.
By the way all this oud will be for sale at the end.

cleaning the bowl, paper stripes and Animal glue

sabbassi - 5-23-2011 at 01:21 AM

The bowls are cleaned and scraped inside. Some Naphte is used to check any irregularity and remove any glue or bumps.

The stripes are cut from a cement bag, very strong for the rib joints.

Hot Animal glue is applied and the stripes are in place

dkhoury35 - 5-23-2011 at 08:03 PM

brother samir are these ouds going to be floating bridge ? and can you also put pickup in them

Edward Powell - 5-24-2011 at 02:10 AM

Great Work Sabbassi --
can you explain a bit about how you process the ribs before gluing? I notice that you don't use a mold... so how do you make 100% sure that you have the shape and curve correct? Obviously you have it correct because your backs look perfect - but I well know from experience that even a slight imperfection will throw the whole thing off.

Lately I have been doing it without a mold, but making sure each rib is the perfect shape and curve - this works but is very time consuming --- I am just wondering if you have a better way to do it - thanks!

sabbassi - 5-24-2011 at 12:09 PM

Hi Edward

very good question. that is the freedome of free mold, it gives you any shape you like. If you follow some mathematic and appriximation shape bending, it is the most easy way .

At the end, the left and right side are exact when placing the sound board. that is the sound board that correct the last mm if not already done by mounting. always trace with a pencile one half side of the bowl on the sondboard. when done use a piece of paper, take the same curve you made with the pencel and cut the paper, flip it the other side and trace the paper to the other side of the soundboard. you have now exact and symetric sounadboard. when you puch it to the bowl, the bowl will be correct it by itself, offcourse if both sides are as close as possible(could be bit smalle or larger)

now how to get this to sides as close as possible: before the ribs are bent, they are cut exact the same lenght, and a ligne is drawn anywhere horizantal on this ribs. you mark them left and right ribs as reference. the line we draw is the key, when glueing the ribs this lines should meet again

. and offcourse you devide and trace the back and neck by exactly 19 dots so that each ribs goes exactly in its own block.

and offcourse bending the ribs as close as possible and they should rest on top of eachother without any pushing or puling.

having the right shape(curve) of the ribs is also important. but as they say in french: c’est en forgeant qu’on devient forgeron

Edward Powell - 5-24-2011 at 12:50 PM

...thanks, yes this is pretty much how I am doing it... however on my last instrument I didn't even mount the block.

I simply made 10 ribs EXACTLY the same size and curve, then I glued them together one by one WITHOUT ANY NECK AND TAIL BLOCKS, using contact cement. This total gluing process only took about 30 - 60 minutes. Then once I could see that the ribs were properly glued, then I ran thin CA glue (super glue) along each glue line - to soak into the contact cement and create a truly permanent glue job... after that I glued the blocks in, and all the rest.

I am not suggesting anyone make an oud this way, but this instrument was a rather complicated affair so it just seemed easiest to do it this way.

Edward Powell - 5-24-2011 at 01:09 PM

afterthought:

Do you know if Khalid makes his bowls this way (without a mold)? I sort of doubt it... in fact, I would guess that he doesn't make the bowls himself anymore. I think most oud makers don't make the bowls themselves. In fact I never met an oud maker that makes his own bowls (even sitar makers in India often don't make their own bodies --- ) - - - can you imagine some famous guitar maker NOT making the body himself!!?

Anyway, I often wonder what the actually technique is for making the bowl with a mold. I spent 7 months in FARUK's workshop and watched Yusuf making bowls day in day out, but never once stopped to ask him exactly how he does it. It seems to me that he bends all of the ribs at once in a mass-bending machine and this give the basic general shape. Then he takes one rib at a time and just roughly - by eye - cuts the basic shape with a bandsaw --- then he drags the rib across and inverted long jack plane.... then tests it on the mold - I guess he is looking at the lines on the mold for each rib, and continues to plane the edges and tweek the bending until it fits snug on the mold and follows the line that that rib is supposed to follow - - - then glues it on---- then repeat repeat repeat... so I guess this is how he does it. [if anyone can add something to this - please do]

sabbassi - 5-24-2011 at 11:39 PM

Edward,

In this case Khalid Belhaiba is the only one

. yes He is making every bit by hand, even the bowls. he is the one who have teached me. And he have an increddible eye for detail.

the way you described Faruk way, is simillar to the one I do. tweaking and testing.

Edward Powell - 5-24-2011 at 11:50 PM

so Khalid is not using a mold?

sabbassi - 5-24-2011 at 11:54 PM

No, No mold.
http://www.belhaibaoud.com/gallery1/dscn1267.jpg

Edward Powell - 5-25-2011 at 12:07 AM

Quote: Originally posted by sabbassi

No, No mold.
http://www.belhaibaoud.com/gallery1/dscn1267.jpg

hmmm
does he bend all the ribs at once on a big multi electric bender?
how long does it take him to build one back?

sabbassi - 5-25-2011 at 12:41 AM

he does not use any electrical bender. he use a under heated iron oval thing on the top of a gaz bottle. and bend by hand. he bend the whole oud at one time. he could build 1 bowl in 1 day, but he mostly build 3 or 4 in a week or so because he is busy with other things. also depend on the weather. in hot climate, the glue harden and cure very fast. in the winter it take longer.

Edward Powell - 5-25-2011 at 01:08 AM

Quote: Originally posted by sabbassi

he does not use any electrical bender. he use a under heated iron oval thing on the top of a gaz bottle. and bend by hand. he bend the whole oud at one time. he could build 1 bowl in 1 day, but he mostly build 3 or 4 in a week or so because he is busy with other things. also depend on the weather. in hot climate, the glue harden and cure very fast. in the winter it take longer.

wow, one in one day... that is very fast. I know Yusuf build two in 3 days. He used to build them faster but less accurate - but Faruk told him to slow down and build them perfectly (which he does) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThXwKuf_WRQ

I have another question about Khalid:
- the most amazing thing I noticed about Khalid - which is something I have NEVER seen in ANY other instrument maker or woodworker in the world in my life is how he used a cabinet scraper. He would just hold it in his hand like he would hold a credit card and then gently stroke the wood surface with this "card" and off would come need little curly shavings of wood. Totally effortless and totally clean - no dust - no sandpaper - no heavy 2 handed scraper technique... incredibly effective and graceful.

My question -- HOW DOES KHALID SHARPEN HIS SCRAPERS TO GET THEM SO SHARP??? He must re-sharpen them almost every day, no???

dkhoury35 - 5-25-2011 at 02:28 AM

hello everybody i can say buy a oud made buy sabbassi im very happy with the one i bought from him everyone that has played it loves it sound bright midrange is great awsome bass .. All in All fantastic oud for the price I would buy another one of his ouds with my eyes shut... THANX SAMIR

abusin - 5-25-2011 at 02:32 AM

:applause:

sabbassi - 5-25-2011 at 02:48 AM

Thank you danny and Awad

Edward, Khalid is building ouds for more than 40 years, his father was also a luthier. He is a master luthier in every word. his ouds come out like from Factory like robots. he make the ouds himself, no little children helping etc. he does sharpen often using a professional shrpener. I don't know th ename but if you look at dick.biz you could find it.

Edward Powell - 5-25-2011 at 03:00 AM

Quote: Originally posted by sabbassi

Thank you danny and Awad

Edward, Khalid is building ouds for more than 40 years, his father was also a luthier. He is a master luthier in every word. his ouds come out like from Factory with robots. he make the ouds himself, no little children helping etc. he does sharpen often using a professional shrpener. I don't know th ename but if you look at dick.biz you could find it.

Yeah Khalid is amazing... I remember watching him just take an exacto knife and cut FREEHAND perfect things like purfling channels etc... I just couldn't believe it :-) ...and such a gentle and humble man also :-)

So Far

sabbassi - 6-9-2011 at 09:52 AM

Sawing ebony ribs from the external purfling around the bow.
the internal strips are black/white/black/white + one wider black ebony

Progress

sabbassi - 6-9-2011 at 09:54 AM

Preparing the ebony fingerbaord to be glued.
for this operation, I now use Titebond III instead of the Original Titebond because it gives mote setting up time to cure.

almost there

sabbassi - 6-9-2011 at 09:57 AM

4 ouds are need only the pegbox and bridges to be mounted. A work to be done sometimes next week.
oud number 5 , the (wenge) will be finished later.

Edward Powell - 6-9-2011 at 10:37 AM

Quote: Originally posted by sabbassi

Preparing the ebony fingerbaord to be glued.
for this operation, I now use Titebond III instead of the Original Titebond because it gives mote setting up time to cure.

Brilliant work!!!!!!!!!! :bounce:

Why not use hide glue, or even titebond liquid hide glue for the fingerboards? What will you do if you need to remove it? Of course titebond also will release with heat, but it is much more difficult to melt off than hide glue.

Beautiful ouds... VERY VERY INSPIRING! THANKS!

Edward Powell - 6-9-2011 at 10:40 AM

Quote: Originally posted by sabbassi

4 ouds are need only the pegbox and bridges to be mounted. A work to be done sometimes next week.
oud number 5 , the (wenge) will be finished later.

You are really a master already! ...and working so fast also.
Do you have any fotos of the soundboard bracing??

farid nada - 6-9-2011 at 07:17 PM

It is splended

sabbassi - 6-9-2011 at 11:37 PM

Hi Edward, Thank you

It is like guitar making, most guitar maker don't use hide glue. it is more for Violin I presume. Also, I'm sure they didn't have Titebond back in the middle ages

.
There no need to remove the fingerboard, everything is checked many times before glueing . neck and body are water flat.
And as you said, with some heat even titebond can be removed in case there is an issue.
I have posted many artciles before with sound boards and bracing details in this forum. sorry didn't make them this time

thanks

Marcus - 6-9-2011 at 11:58 PM

Hi Samir :wavey:

as i watched all the vids of your ouds I must say I`m impressed how fast you become a "master luthier", like Edward said. :bowdown:

dkhoury35 asked allready if you plan, or if it is possible for you, to install a pickup/preamp-system in your ouds. Is it?
Another question,what about building a 7-course fixed bridge?
I`d love to own one, specially one that is made by you and availiable in Holland.

All the best,

Marcus

sabbassi - 6-10-2011 at 12:12 AM

Hi Marcus

Thank you for you compliments. There are many Pickup / pream-system. but that is no issue. Some of them are installed under the fixed bridge and need to be fixed before the bridge is glued. other are just glued on the top of the soundboard. I can do that no problem.

I can sure build of 7 course for you, the ouds I'm making now are standard, the join on the neck is exactly 5.8mm and on the nut 3.8. will fit only 6 courses.

you need to tell me what wood preferences and I can start with it. and offcourse do you want it more bass(y) or more treble, etc...
but we can do it by mail.

thanks

regards,

Samir

SamirCanada - 6-10-2011 at 04:25 AM

Hi Samir,

I am a bit quiet these days but I just wanted to give you my regards and encouragement. You are making some very nice instruments

Are you still using a table saw to cut all your wood? I am thinking of getting one this summer but I wonder what amount of HP is suitable for exotic woods such as ebony and also what kind of blade are you using in it?

Thanks, Samir.

Yaron Naor - 6-10-2011 at 06:54 AM

Great Work Sabbassi! and thanks for shearing

sabbassi - 6-10-2011 at 01:29 PM

Yaron, Thank you my friend I love your work too, Just foget smtimes to repost

forgive me.

SamirCanada. Thank you samir, I have noticed you abscence this days, must be busy

I use for most of heavy work the new purchased BOSCH PtS10 table saw. I use carbide saws, 1.7 mm kirf thikness , they cut less in expensive woods like ebony and you can save some money with it. I also use it to cut the fingerboard, ribs etc. dangerous but very nice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAQ-w_gdRNw

I have also a smal tabel saw from Proxxon. this one is a wonder. so quite yet powerfull. Proxxon FET.

regards,

Samir

Ararat66 - 6-11-2011 at 01:38 AM

Hi there

'dangerous but very nice' just watch your fingers - seriously I've seen it happen ... maybe find another way if it feels edgy

Leon

Ararat66 - 6-11-2011 at 01:42 AM

ps ... that's a nice looking table saw though - I may need something similar for a project (not lutherie!!) I need to build this year.

Cheers

Leon

alan_mardan - 6-12-2011 at 04:05 PM

sabbassi,

You always present fantastic design with a taste of wood selection... have you already sold them or got any left

sabbassi - 6-13-2011 at 05:57 AM

Hi Alan,
Thank you, I have not sold anyone yet. If you are interested plese u2u me.
thanks

samir

alan_mardan - 6-15-2011 at 05:59 PM

Sabbassi,

I did u2u you regarding another issue so please check it?

Cheers

Almost there, pegs and strings

sabbassi - 6-19-2011 at 09:30 AM

Hi Guys,

After a hard working weekend the bridge, nut and the pickguard are placed. the finger boards are flaterned and sanded.

I still need to shape the ebony pegs and place the strings.
th dark ouds are difficult to make pictures of. the Indian rosewood hs mother of pearl dot at the back. the three others are from ebony.

new: the bridge it not at 90 degree as usual, but 5 degree more to the back. the knot of the strings is about 2 mm, this way I want to keep the strings lenght net: 58,5cm exculding the knot.

the bridges are all from walnut, stained black

sabbassi - 6-19-2011 at 09:32 AM

more pictures.
enjoy it

Danielo - 6-20-2011 at 12:16 AM

Really great work Samir :applause:

regards,

Dan

Indian Rosewood / aged spruce top

sabbassi - 6-20-2011 at 05:16 AM

Thank you Dan

First oud is finished.

Strings ust mounted 3 hours ago. Labella strings (Do)

Ararat66 - 6-20-2011 at 06:40 AM

Great stuff - lovely oud

btw who is playing on this vid you also posted

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BWCvsnGPaU&NR=1

it is really beautiful and very sweet sounding

Cheers

Leon

sabbassi - 6-20-2011 at 07:39 AM

Leon:

Abdellaziz Abdallah luthiste algérien Album. called ALLA

Album: Foundou de Béchar

Ararat66 - 6-20-2011 at 07:47 AM

Thanks Samir, just ordered it

Leon

Finished ouds, Indian Rosewood,- spruce top

sabbassi - 6-21-2011 at 09:56 AM

I have decided to mount a wooden rosettes to all ouds this time.
looks nice. a sound file will follow up later in couple of days. all this Ouds are for sell by the way. I will put the price on mike ouds later this week.

Paduk / Walnut - red cedar top

sabbassi - 6-21-2011 at 09:58 AM

Paduk / Walnut - red cedar top

Paduk/mahogany - Spruce top

sabbassi - 6-21-2011 at 09:59 AM

Walnut - red cedar top

sabbassi - 6-21-2011 at 10:01 AM

the last one

MatthewW - 6-21-2011 at 10:17 AM

amazing work Samir, congratulations on each oud, each one a work of art. Do you have a website with all the photos, clips, full specs on each oud, and prices? regards, Matthew

bulerias1981 - 6-21-2011 at 05:27 PM

Sabbassi, gorgeous work my friend. I like it a lot. I love how the finish came out. What did you use/how'd you do it?

sabbassi - 6-21-2011 at 11:54 PM

Thank you Matthew, I don't realy have awebsite, I build the ouds beside my work, . I will put all the specs on mike ouds tonight or tomorrow.

Bulerias. thank you, I like your work too, very nice. I finish all the ouds with a coat or tung oil, and 2 days or so applying shellac.

I do not varnish the face. I use kind of wax with very thin coat and wipe it of. It protect the face and gives old vintage look.

regards,
samir

fadel - 6-22-2011 at 02:27 AM

hi

good work

pro... ouds

thank

sabbassi - 6-22-2011 at 02:22 PM

Thank you Fadel.

arsene - 6-22-2011 at 03:33 PM

Wow, such a pleasure to look at - and no doubt to listen to as well, soon! Great work! Prachtig!