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Electronic Tuner v Forks

Fernando of Sor - 11-7-2011 at 08:03 PM

Hi, I was wondering if most people do use electronic tuners, or if many of you are using tuning forks? I have a Korg CA-1 Tuner, but it seems a little unstable, even with a clip on mic attached.
If you use an electronic tuner that you could recommend, please post.

Any other general tuning tips would be welcome also.

Many Thanks - Mark

charlie oud - 11-8-2011 at 11:26 AM

Hi Mark.
For me personally its forks only. Usaually 'A' = 440.
For the oud I recommend ear only once a single string is at your chosen pitch. Becoming aquainted with the interval of a fourth i.e. A to d, d to g, g to c. The fourth is a 'perfect' interval which along with the octave is the only perfect interval in Arabic music. All others being sublect to micro tonal variations. I hasten to add these are my findings on working exclusively from recordings, the players whose recording I work from are my teachers, they are of course unaware that I am their student.

littleseb - 11-8-2011 at 02:33 PM

i tend to use a tuner for new strings,fork and ear once they have settled a bit.

Fernando of Sor - 11-8-2011 at 03:32 PM

I'm certainly leaning towards using forks, in a nutshell I just found
the whole needle hopping around all over the place a bit brain damaging. By the time I'd got it tuned I felt like going 15 rounds with Mike Tyson.
I think a C fork, and a nice cup of Earl Grey would be a much better idea.
Do you guys use 1 fork and relative tuning, or more than one fork?

Thanks - Mark

Brian Prunka - 11-8-2011 at 04:37 PM

If you're going to use a fork on oud, it should be a G fork. "G" is the "A" of Arabic music, if you get my meaning.

Fernando of Sor - 11-8-2011 at 05:20 PM

Yes Brian, I think I understand, thanks for that. I have to admit that at this point my technical knowledge of Arabic music is absolutly minimal, I am right at the beginning.

I also take onboard Charlie Oud's advice about familiarising myself with 4ths. This alone, is a good reason to go for a fork. It was something I'd considered that not owning an electronic tuner may make me listen a bit more precisely. Although I can fully understand why you may want to use a tuner in a performance situation with other musicians.

Many thanks for all the advice, this is a great forum, and has really helped me alot. I don't know anyone personally who even knows what an Oud is, so it's been invaluable to me.

All the best - Mark (off to order a fork)

Sasha - 11-8-2011 at 06:03 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Brian Prunka

If you're going to use a fork on oud, it should be a G fork. "G" is the "A" of Arabic music, if you get my meaning.

Unless you use a Turkish tuning... :cool:

charlie oud - 11-9-2011 at 02:08 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Brian Prunka

If you're going to use a fork on oud, it should be a G fork. "G" is the "A" of Arabic music, if you get my meaning.[/ rquote]

Hey Brian, Now 'I'm' confused !!!. Please explain. 'A' at 'A'=440 is the fourth course on oud, I tune this string with this fork and the rest by ear. How is this string 'G'?
Sure I'm missing the point here but would like to know what you mean.

fernandraynaud - 11-9-2011 at 05:23 AM

Turkish?

Sasha - 11-9-2011 at 05:45 PM

Quote: Originally posted by fernandraynaud

Turkish?

Yeah, well - I had to speak up for the small handful of us here who do...

Brian Prunka - 11-9-2011 at 05:50 PM

Quote: Originally posted by charlie oud

Quote: Originally posted by Brian Prunka

If you're going to use a fork on oud, it should be a G fork. "G" is the "A" of Arabic music, if you get my meaning.[/ rquote]

The second course is the reference point, not the fourth.
If you're tuning in pure 4ths and use A as the reference your G will be off by 4 cents. Since Arabic musicians generally tune with the G as the reference point, its a good habit to get into. They are small discrepancies, but can get magnified when you're dealing with several musicians.

Of course, as Sasha points out, the second course in Turkish music is A, so no problem there (I almost mentioned that to begin with, but thought it might be more confusing).

littleseb - 11-10-2011 at 04:40 AM

yes, i usually tune by g, especially when playing with others, and then work my up and down.

charlie oud - 11-10-2011 at 04:53 AM

Thanks Brian, Interesting, I was'nt aware of this discrepancy. What I'll do now is still tune with the 'A' fork as I dont have a 'g' fork, then I will retune starting from the 'g'. I will get a 'g' fork soon though. This will save time. This discrepancy may explain why I find myself making very slight adjustments of tweeking other strings after having already tuned them to what my ear selects as the interval of a perfect fourth.

Jody Stecher - 11-10-2011 at 07:39 AM

If you tune the open strings according to an electronic tuner you will be out of tune for most kinds of music. Any tuner will give you "tempered" pitches unsuitable for Arabic (etc) music but you will also be out of tune for tempered music. I say this because I have tested various brands and models of tuners against each other and they do not agree with each other as to what is "in tune".

Fernando of Sor - 11-10-2011 at 11:26 AM

That's interesting, are there any brands of fork which are particularly good/recommended, or are they mostly all ok?
Thanks.