Alan-TX - 11-20-2011 at 08:50 AM
I have a oud made in Turkey. The fingerboard extends to the sound hole. The neck is straight. However the portion of the fingerboard that extends from
the neck joint to the sound hole is concave following the soundboard. So if you look horizontally from the bridge to the nut that portion of the neck
(Sound hole to neck joint) looks warped. I rarely play that high up the neck so I am more concerned if this is a structural issue. My Syrian and
Egyptian ouds do not do this but the sound board is also straight.
charlie oud - 11-20-2011 at 09:27 AM
Interesting point this. Many excellent guitar and lute makers expect soundboards to dish slightly when the tension has settled to its norm. This
should not happen to the extent where the action is greatly affected. I wonder if Turkish ouds, being more lightly constructed than Arabic ouds
(though not always) have that same flexibility?. Lets hope some oud makers respond to your question to enlighten us. Personally I would not see this
as structural issue/problem but would avoid high tension stringing (which I avoid anyway)
jdowning - 11-20-2011 at 11:25 AM
It is not clear from the image but some lutes and ouds are constructed with a 'scoop' - that is the side ribs are slightly cut away on each side to
deliberately bow the surface of the soundboard downwards (maximum depth of bow occurs around the bottom edge of the soundhole). This is to provide
string clearance over the rosette should the sound board bulge upwards in this area under string tension as it can do if the sound board is initially
built flat. The same forces also cause the sound board to dish or go slightly concave in the area just above the bridge - as mentioned by Charlie.
The inlaid extended fingerboard will be about the same thickness as the sound board so will follow any of the sound board contours when under
stress.
Any scoop present can be verified by removing the strings and by placing the instrument, inverted, (bridge excluded) on a flat surface.
DoggerelPundit - 11-20-2011 at 12:50 PM
Alan TX, my 2 cents...
How much gap do you see if you lay that straight edge from the nut to the sound hole only? Wouldn't that be the critical area for any problems with
dead tones, excessive action, or buzzing caused by warp?
Taking charlie oud's and Jdowning's points on tension, why not measure this nut-to-rose straightedge gap both unstrung and at fully tuned tension? Any
differences might be suggestive.
BTW, clearly informative picture!
-Stephen
Franck - 11-21-2011 at 04:22 AM
A great maker and a friend of mine once told me this is done so that the mizrab won't hit the soundboard when played hard. The warp is part of the
design.
Alan-TX - 11-21-2011 at 05:08 AM
Thanks for the replies everyone. The picture was taken with the strings loose. I have been told the bow is by design as well but have never owned a
Turkish oud so thought I would ask. I will take measurements later of both strung and un strung for a comparison.
ondalud - 11-21-2011 at 05:22 AM
Hello Alan-Tx
In my experience (I had a couple of Turkish oud) this curvature of the soundboard is not normal but it happens often.
It happens for several reasons: the wood of the soundboard is not perfectly cured; wrong tensions of the strings, the soundboard bracing inside is not
executed perfectly and the many other possible reasons that could explain luthiers forum better than me.
But the real question is whether the instrument, despite this flaw, it's still playable.
I mean if the action is acceptable without the strings become too low (creating the annoying "buzing") or too high and uncomfortable to play.
Ultimately, my point of view, if the instrument is a good tool and is playable then I think that the deformation is only an aesthetic that is
overlooked, otherwise I do not think we can do much unless radical action on the instrument.
Best of luck.
fernandraynaud - 11-21-2011 at 04:57 PM
Just a parallel, if you will. When I started playing the viola da gamba (or "viol"), I was struck by the concavity of the "flying" fingerboard section
above the soundboard. Then I read it was deliberate to facilitate fingering. In your case it might be incidental, but not a bad thing.
Also incidentally, the viols are 6 stringed and tuned much like an oud, they evolved from the lute, unlike the Cello and violin, not too difficult a
transition for an oud player. The bass viol is tuned DGCead, sometimes adding a 7th string below, tuned to A. The C-e interval sort of divides the
instrument into two sections, and takes some getting used to. But to an oudie who wants to explore a bowed instrument, it's more natural than the
violin family. They come in many sizes, the small 68 cm basses being not horribly more cumbersome than an oud. The movable tie-on frets make maqam
music possible, and even for baroque playing many players spread the gap between the two wraps to get two different notes.
Ararat66 - 11-22-2011 at 09:02 AM
Hi Alan
Who's the maker ... looks very nice. I have a Greek oud based on Manol shape and this is a charecteristic of mine and is actually built into the body
shape also so I assume is deliberate.
I have read that the karibiyan ouds (who I think was a student of Manol) also built a similar curve into the body and soundboard, indeed I remember
someone here mentioning this to be a very shallow 'S' shape from neck to the bottom of the oud.
It could be a sound and strength innovation and would also effect the balance between bass, mids and trebles, as with some guitars with arching tops
which effects separation and tone.
Ouds are wild and wonderful forces of nature methinks.
Leon
DoggerelPundit - 11-23-2011 at 07:03 PM
"I have read that the karibiyan ouds (who I think was a student of Manol) also built a similar curve into the body and soundboard, indeed I
remember someone here mentioning this to be a very shallow 'S' shape from neck to the bottom of the oud."
My two are built this way (1928 & 1961). Strung or unstrung, their dip measurements are the same. Using a steel straightedge from the nut to the
top of the rose, there are no gaps and only a slight drop off near the rose. I have also had the honor of being "up close and personal" with several
others and they are all of this same design.
In addition to the dip under discussion (the shallow 'S' described), Mr. Karibyan's ouds have a mild arch in the face—across the body in the area
between the bridge and the bottom of the oud.
The guy who posts here as Jonathan could probably shed more light on this.
-Stephen