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Ideal Oud Pickup

Brian Prunka - 1-28-2012 at 09:24 AM

Hey Everyone,

I've recently come across a pickup which is, in my opinion, ideal for oud. I'm going to try to record some sound clips and post them soon, so if you were thinking of adding a pickup to your oud, you may want to hold off a little longer.

Who makes this pickup? Patience, my friends . . . I don't want to say just yet.

I am talking to the company and it looks like I will be able to soon offer them on my website. And of course, I will offer the best deal I can to my fellow mikeoudis.

Brian Prunka - 1-28-2012 at 02:52 PM

Okay, here's a sample I recorded.

This is with my Sukar electric oud. The electronics from Sukar didn't work when I got it, and his quasi-floating bridge design sounded terrible, so I had John V (Bulerias) fabricate a new bridge and clean up the leftover parts of Sukar's bridge.

It is shallow, with a flat fiberglass back. It sounds okay, but by no means a great oud. I think it sounds very good for what it is, but it's not like I would record with it, this is strictly for performing. So keep in mind the limitations of not using a great oud to begin with.

Here are photos of the oud

Brian Prunka - 1-28-2012 at 02:56 PM

Here is the sound file.

I simultaneously recording with the pickup direct into the computer and with a condenser microphone, and the recording switches between the two sounds.

The first 19 seconds are just the pickup plugged directly into the computer with no effects (no eq, no reverb, etc.).

From 19-32 seconds is the condenser microphone.

From 33 seconds on, it's the pickup again (starting where it jumps up the octave).

Starting where I play Longa Nahawand, I added a bit of EQ and reverb.
sample

Try to listen on decent speakers to get the best picture of the sound.

adamgood - 1-28-2012 at 05:26 PM

got this when going for the sound file...

Sorry! That page doesn't exist.
What you're looking for is probably at http://www.nashazmusic.com

Brian Prunka - 1-29-2012 at 08:38 AM

Sorry about that! The link is fixed now.

Sasha - 1-29-2012 at 09:12 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Brian Prunka

Sorry about that! The link is fixed now.

...and which link is that, Brian?

Brian Prunka - 1-29-2012 at 10:01 AM

This one:

Quote: Originally posted by Brian Prunka

Here is the sound file.

I simultaneously recording with the pickup direct into the computer and with a condenser microphone, and the recording switches between the two sounds.

The first 19 seconds are just the pickup plugged directly into the computer with no effects (no eq, no reverb, etc.).

From 19-32 seconds is the condenser microphone.

From 33 seconds on, it's the pickup again (starting where it jumps up the octave).

Starting where I play Longa Nahawand, I added a bit of EQ and reverb.
sample

Try to listen on decent speakers to get the best picture of the sound.

paulO - 1-29-2012 at 10:12 AM

I listened on headphones, and the differences between the sound of the Mic, and the pickup are very close. Looking forward to more info.

Cheers..Paul

Brian Prunka - 1-29-2012 at 11:59 AM

I just realized that because of a loose wire when I recorded, that there is a rattle on the pickup recordings (the wire was touching the soundboard and rattling from the vibrations). That sound is ordinarily not there, I will try to record a cleaner version when I get a chance.

If you consider that a performance would have the sound coming out of speakers, they give a little better sense of the real-world sound application than headphones . . . the differences are exaggerated a bit by headphones, IMO. Not a huge difference, but noticeable.

As you can probably tell, I'm pretty excited about this pickup, mainly because I finally feel like I have a pickup I can perform with. I've tried lots of them over the years and never been very happy with the sound.

Multi Kulti - 1-29-2012 at 12:23 PM

Very natural treble and bass sound..i listened on both studio monitors and headphones and i loved the sound of it.
Im really waiting for more infos about this pickup..i would love to test it on my ouds and compare it to my setup (Akg C411-FishmanProEq-AERamp)

Nikos

Brian Prunka - 1-29-2012 at 03:22 PM

Nikos, it is funny you mention that, as the AKG411 is what I have been using as well. I like its sound quite a bit, but I always felt like its midrange was a bit unnaturally overemphasized. Still, it works well live, because of the tendency to cut through. I will try to record a sample with that mic as well for anyone who wants to compare.

MatthewW - 1-30-2012 at 12:05 PM

Brian- please don't keep us in suspense too long buddy on this oud pickup, as you know many of us here are always on the lookout for that elusive animal!

Brian Prunka - 1-30-2012 at 12:27 PM

I just want to get everything confirmed with the company before I spill the beans . . . soon!

spyros mesogeia - 2-1-2012 at 07:09 AM

Hello Brian,
I use Schertler products,let me know when it's available,I would like to see it and try it.
Regards

Brian Prunka - 2-1-2012 at 08:44 AM

It looks like 90% sure I will be carrying the pickups soon. They are made by B-Band, a German company who has developed their own proprietary pickup technology. It is not a piezo (like Fishman, PUTW) or a contact mic (like K & K).

While obviously nothing can replace a great microphone, the B-Band technology sounds more like a microphone than anything else out there that I am aware of.

The pickups come with an output jack that has an integrated preamp. If your oud doesn't already have an output jack, it will require that a hole be drilled somewhere (end block is best).

It also has a small volume control thumbwheel and requires a 9V battery. For this reason, it will likely not be practical if your oud has a rosette. The thumbwheel needs to be mounted somewhere and the soundhole is the best place (though you could just turn it up all the way and put it somewhere where you can't adjust it), and while the batteries last a long time, you probably don't want to take your rosette out even once a year to do it.

I will let you guys know when I have some available.

cheers,
Brian

spyros mesogeia - 2-1-2012 at 08:48 AM

:wavey:

Brian Prunka - 2-1-2012 at 09:15 AM

I'll also mention that you can get a version that includes a condenser soundhole mic (you mix the mic and pickup), or if you have a guitar-type bridge, there is an under-saddle version (you can mix the two kinds of pickup).

They used to offer an outboard battery, which may be a solution if you have a rosette. I'm not sure if it's still available, but I'm looking into it.

MatthewW - 2-1-2012 at 09:54 AM

Spyros- which model Schertler do you use?

Brian- For those with rosettes, would you know if the B-Band can be fitted and made to work without the thumbwheel by some sort of modification...and so instead of the soundhole thumbwheel work just as well with an external preamp? Perhaps the manufacturers might be able to shed some light on this?
How is the feedback tolerance with the B-Band ? Have you tried using it at various volumes- from small venues to larger live performances? etc? thanks

Brian Prunka - 2-1-2012 at 12:42 PM

Matthew,

They unfortunately do not offer an option for an external preamp, and I don't think any modification would be a good idea given what I've seen of the design.

They do offer a more involved onboard preamp which would involve more modification to the instrument--mounting it somewhere on the bowl.

The best solution would be to just install it with the volume all the way up and control the volume externally with a volume pedal or small mixer, IMO.

They are no longer officially offering the external battery system, but they told me that there is a workaround--I don't have the details yet.

I do wish that they offered an external preamp, but it doesn't look like that will happen in the forseeable future.

I've used it at moderate to high volumes without feedback (as long as the speakers are not pointed at the oud and you're not right next to them). I haven't tried extremely high volumes . . . I suspect that you might have some issues, but less so than using a microphone. If you really need to play oud with Black Sabbath or something, I think the Godin Multioud or other piezo system is really the only viable option.

adamgood - 2-1-2012 at 09:31 PM

Ah, B-Band! Someone was telling me about these very recently, who or where it was completely escapes me! Maybe someone in Germany while I was still living there. The idea of the long thin strip soundboard transducer is very appealing.

Still freaky for me the idea of drilling into my instrument to make a hole for a jack so I've been using a putty stick on Schertler (Basik) behind the bridge and with a Baggs pre. Working for me though I'm not in love with it.

spyros mesogeia - 2-1-2012 at 11:56 PM

I use UNICO with Dyn G.
Regards

Brian Prunka - 2-2-2012 at 09:07 AM

Quote: Originally posted by adamgood

Ah, B-Band! Someone was telling me about these very recently, who or where it was completely escapes me! Maybe someone in Germany while I was still living there. The idea of the long thin strip soundboard transducer is very appealing.

Still freaky for me the idea of drilling into my instrument to make a hole for a jack so I've been using a putty stick on Schertler (Basik) behind the bridge and with a Baggs pre. Working for me though I'm not in love with it.

I agree--I am not going to be drilling holes in my Nahat or al-Mulki bowls! Those instruments are for quieter performances where a mic will suffice (though I can put the AKG 411 inside the Nahat temporarily without modification).
From my perspective, if the gig is loud/noisy enough to require a pickup, the subtle nuances of the great instruments will be lost anyway, which is why it makes more sense to devote a less valuable instrument to it.

paulO - 2-2-2012 at 01:48 PM

It is a great sounding pickup, and I would want to try one - but since they have no way of externally powering their end-pin pre-amps, I'll have to pass.

Regards..Paul

Brian Prunka - 2-2-2012 at 05:09 PM

Quote: Originally posted by paulO

It is a great sounding pickup, and I would want to try one - but since they have no way of externally powering their end-pin pre-amps, I'll have to pass.

Regards..Paul

Paul, check my earlier statement:

Quote:

They are no longer officially offering the external battery system, but they told me that there is a workaround--I don't have the details yet.

Alan-TX - 3-23-2012 at 11:59 AM

Any update on this Brian? I have a Sukar I want to install one of these on if they are available.

norumba - 7-27-2012 at 07:45 AM

yes, an update , please...this sounds intriguing.....

Brian Prunka - 7-27-2012 at 11:16 AM

My apologies for keeping folks in the dark . . . I wanted to spend a little more time testing it out in live situations before carrying it.

It has worked well (in terms of sound), but is a little sensitive to noise from various vibrations--I'm trying to figure out a good solution to that. I have used it in pretty loud situations, but it is more prone to feedback than a piezo-type pickup (though much less so than using a microphone).

There is a fair amount of interest, though, so I will try to get some soon for those interested.

cheers,
Brian

norumba - 7-27-2012 at 12:11 PM

thanks for the update!

Me and a luthier /engineer are in the process of modding out a a guitar doubleneck to be a guitar/oud doubleneck,.. it willbe a solid body construction, so the oud portion will be more along the lines of a frame style ('toilet seat') oud. Not super loud, but we can get healthy/aggressive.

Transducer types wont work, so some kind of undersaddle (or under a floating bridge) arrangement is in order, and this or the PUTW seem like some promising alternatives. Feedback not really an issue, there's not a big bowl to worry about, but something better than quacky piezo tone with a good strong level are what we 're seeking.

This is underway, so if you have products or prototypes, we'll be happy to test!

Brian Prunka - 7-27-2012 at 01:58 PM

B Band makes an undersaddle version of this pickup as well, so I will make sure to get a couple of those.

norumba - 7-27-2012 at 02:21 PM

Great, keep me posted!

norumba - 12-23-2012 at 12:00 AM

any updates?

norumba - 2-15-2013 at 10:19 PM

any word?