Mike's Oud Forums

Shamli Kudmanyzade - Qadmany Brothers, Syrian Luthiers in Istanbul

Alfaraby - 1-12-2014 at 11:23 AM


Qadmany Brothers - Syrian Luthiers in Istanbul

These are very interesting instruments from 1903, 1905 & 1912 made by Iskender and Tawfiq Qadmany in Istanbul; and a wonderful Salim Qadmany 1897, made in Damascus.

These makers were called in Turkish Kudmany Braderler (Brothers) or Shamli (Damascene) Kudmanyzade. All three members of the Qadmany clan moved from Damascus to Istanbul in around 1900, where they built ouds, mainly in the typical Syrian style. The brothers are still well known amongst the Turkish luthiers, as Iskender Kudmany published musical notes of Ottoman composers. He was also famous for his oud-method book which he published in the 1920's. Iskender settled down in Istanbul, where he passed away around 1960 and where his grave still exists. His brother Tawfiq* seems to have moved to Beirut in the 1930's, while Salim moved back to Damascus.
*(Nazih Ghadban once sold an oud made by Tawfiq Qadamany 1942, few years ago).

The major difference of the Qadmany's Istanbul-made and the Damascene parallel made by their youngest brother Salim, is the usage of a dove tail for the neck-neckblock joint, instead of the usual Arabic dowel joint.
Their weight makes them even much "Turkish": 650 grams for the 1903 Qudmany, 700 grams for the others. This is very light for relatively big size ouds with a string length of 600- 615 mm. It's surprising though that these ouds were made after the typical Damascene standards.

Who purchased Syrian ouds in Istanbul ?
It seems like the Ottoman Empire was busy with other professions and skills so it didn't pay much attention to oud-making; therefore they called out for their subjects to come along to the Capital of the Empire and make the best ouds possible. Manol may have moved from Greece to Turkey for the same reason.
Furthermore, the Syrian makers were apparently sophisticated representatives of a highly refined school of oud making, who surpassed other makers from other provinces of the Empire, so they were tempted to come along and make a career in the Capital of those days.

The Capital of the Ottoman Empire, fascinated musicians from all over the Empire to visit and/or work, so high standard instruments had to be offered to these guests. (The great Abdo Al Hamouly from Cairo, for instance, had visited Istanbul and recorded some of his early recordings in around 1896). Likewise, Cairo the "capital" of the Arab world has gathered the best professionals from all over the Arab world: Jamil George, for instance, moved to Cairo in the early 1900's and was in practice one of the best makers of Egypt (along with Al Gohary & Al Laithy), until he passed away in the early 1960's. Not only oud makers: other professionals followed: actors, dancers, directors, journalists, writers, poets, singers etc. moved to Cairo.

Qadamany is well known name in greater Syria (also pronounced as koudmani kodmani, qadmani, kudmani but written in Arabic in the same manner قضماني . Few Qadamany members have emigrated from Syria to Palestine in the 18th century and settled in Lower Galilee; while others stayed in Syria or moved later to Jordan and Lebanon. No one of the following generations of this family are related to oud or to music in general; as far as I could detect. However, some are famous in sports and politics in modern Syria !

This is a wonderful opportunity to look inside Qadmany's oud world. They seem to have very high quality skills; therefore might have competed with the Nahhat family, have they settled down in Damascus for good. Like many other distinguished luthiers from the past, no descendants have maintained their ancestors' profession.

A special thanks to my friend Karim Hassan who exposed me to these master luthiers and generously provided me with most of these beautiful photos.

More to come ..

Enjoy
Yours indeed,
Alfaraby

[file]29953[/file] [file]29955[/file] [file]29957[/file] [file]29949[/file] [file]29939[/file] [file]29941[/file] [file]29943[/file] [file]29945[/file] [file]29947[/file] [file]29959[/file]

Jody Stecher - 1-12-2014 at 11:34 AM

These are beautiful instruments. Thank you for this. Do you know if all Qadmany ouds had single sound holes? The one sound hole seems to go so well with the rest of the design.

ALAMI - 1-12-2014 at 11:47 AM

I've seen in person the Toufic Qadamani that Nazih had, a real beauty, highly inlayed, extremely fine and of a great taste and surprisingly light...a rare masterpiece.
I had pictures somewhere but couldn't find them.

bulerias1981 - 1-12-2014 at 12:11 PM

I like these bits of in info from you Alfaraby, I was thinking at some point to make an editable list of ALL the oud makers we all know, and ones that us luthiers come in contact with when repairing ouds.. and we can add to the list.. the community would have access to this list.

This is a project I wanted to start myself, but I am too busy right now to begin this. Maybe someone wants to take that on and work with knowledgeable enthusiasts and luthiers.. perhaps if you're interested in starting the project you can if you'd like. I have some makers I'd add to the list myself. It can be arranged by the makers name, when they lived, where they worked from, and info like how many instruments they produced and the quality of them, and so on.

I know others have started something like this, but those projects remain in their possession, therefore the community cannot add to it. So if it existed somewhere in cyberspace and entries can be made by anyone, or at least those qualified, then this list would grow and encompass almost every maker out there. Just an idea! :)

Alfaraby - 1-12-2014 at 12:42 PM

1912 Oud

Turkish oud made by Qadamany in 1912.
Soundboard: Fir (Spruce).
Fingerboard: Walnut
Bowl: Mixture of walnut and plane tree wood, French polished.
Pegs: Apricot, dyed in black
Total length: 33" (840 mm)
Length: 20" (508 mm)
Width: 13.5" (343 mm)

Jody: Seems so, though Salim made 3 soundholes, as seen in the attached shots. Do we really know that for sure ? I don't !

John: There's no enough data base for such a project. Maybe only the names. What do we know about Hamawy, Hafnawy, Mulqy, Razzouq, Qaddourah, Hallaq, etc. ? Only their names and mostly we don't even know their first names :(

Keep enjoying

Yours indeed,
Alfaraby

[file]29973[/file] [file]29961[/file] [file]29963[/file] [file]29965[/file] [file]29967[/file] [file]29969[/file] [file]29971[/file]

Doc139 - 1-12-2014 at 01:42 PM

Thanks, Jamil, again for sharing your informations about oudmakers history - when will you finally start writing your book about the subject? hahaha
:)
Alexander

bulerias1981 - 1-12-2014 at 05:04 PM

Jamil,

There are plenty more names than that. I mean a database for all the oud makers that ever lived!

Alfaraby - 1-13-2014 at 01:23 PM

A friend just mentioned to me that those ouds of 1903 & 1905 are possessed by a Swiss acquaintance of his, in whose house he had played them both and found they are "unbelievable instruments" !

Quiz: Who's the owner ?
Maybe he'd tape them and let us melt in passion.

Yours indeed,
Alfaraby

Doc139 - 1-13-2014 at 10:08 PM

Just tell me who/where in Switzerland and I go there and will check it out... :)
Alexander

Microber - 1-14-2014 at 06:06 AM

Isn't it you Alexander ?

Doc139 - 1-14-2014 at 09:30 AM

Good joke, Robert :applause: --- no, I am not the owner, unfortunately...
But I have two VERY beautiful ouds as well, although not as old and precious as these here we are talking about...
See you,
Alexander

Alfaraby - 1-14-2014 at 01:50 PM

"Dear Jamil
Thanks for that interesting post on Mikes Oud Forum about my ouds.
I'm a frequent reader but not member of Mikes forum, so I have nothing against mentioning my name there.

I'm the Swiss owner of the Tawfik 1912 and the Qadmany Braderler 1903 (which you posted as 1905, fourth from left). I like these ouds very much because their sound unites the warmth and the bassy tone of a Syrian oud, with the brilliance and lightness of a Turkish oud ...
For some time, these ouds where not very wanted or liked in Turkey, because everybody was looking for Manol's and some Armenian luthiers like Karibyian, and they were not often preferred in Turkey.

Here are the videos of the ouds:

Together with Karim, here I play the 1912 Tawfik:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myhUL3Je5OA

Again with Karim I play his 1903 Braderler:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHJrlrDLRkE

And last is my 1903 Braderler (only 5 numbers higher in the serial of Karim's 1903):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFkaSACRo7o

Best wishes
Yours truly,

Christian Moser
Switzerland"


I think I've seen these videos in the forum before :rolleyes:

Thanks Christian
Yours indeed
Alfaraby

myandell - 1-14-2014 at 02:24 PM

Alfarby, thank you for posting this history information. I love seeing the beautiful instruments and hearing them talked about with such love and passion. I have been encountering so many incredible artists. Learning so much. Sincerely Meg

Toufiq Kadamani 1943

Nazih Ghadban - 1-14-2014 at 11:11 PM

hello for all

this is the incredible Toufiq Kadamani
pics and sound

Nazih

[file]29993[/file] [file]29991[/file] [file]29989[/file] [file]29995[/file] [file]29997[/file] [file]29999[/file] [file]30001[/file] [file]30003[/file] [file]30005[/file]

https://soundcloud.com/oudnazihghadban/nazih-plays-rast-fa-on

Doc139 - 1-15-2014 at 12:07 PM

What a beautiful instrument, Nazih! Incredible.
Alexander

Alfaraby - 1-15-2014 at 02:42 PM

Is it acceptable to put the restorer's rosette on an antique oud he mended ?

I wonder !

Yours indeed
Alfaraby

Joubran - 1-16-2014 at 02:32 PM

Hi all,

At last this Oud has been repaired by Wissam Joubran 3 years ago.
Here are 2 pictures before and after reparation. Others will follow.

Olivier, Assistant
http://www.wissamjoubran.com

[file]30074[/file]

[file]30073[/file]

Joubran - 1-17-2014 at 01:37 AM

Other pictures of Wissam's reparation...

Olivier, Assistant
http://www.wissamjoubran.com

[file]30079[/file] [file]30081[/file]

Joubran - 1-17-2014 at 01:54 AM

And here is the Rosace that has been recreated like the very original one made by ivory, thanks to Mr Ghadban that send us the few original pieces, so Mr. Joubran could recompose the work with ivory too.
Olivier, Assistant
http://www.wissamjoubran.com

[file]30083[/file] [file]30085[/file]

Joubran - 1-17-2014 at 02:04 AM

I had to choose few pictures from too many...

Olivier, Assistant
http://www.wissamjoubran.com

[file]30087[/file] [file]30089[/file]

Brian Prunka - 1-17-2014 at 06:23 AM

Curious why Mr. Joubran would change the bracing of the oud, it seems to defeat the purpose of "restoring" an antique instrument.

Joubran - 1-17-2014 at 07:39 AM

Hi Brian,

If you look well on picture attached, you can see the traces of the old braces. Means the ones that he changed weren't the originals.

For information, after analyzes by X ray and UV test, Mr Joubran decided to open the instrument and the conclusion was that this Qadmany has been already opened 4 times and repaired at least 7 times.

Olivier, assistant
http://www.wissamjoubran.com

David Parfitt - 1-17-2014 at 08:59 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bulerias1981  
I like these bits of in info from you Alfaraby, I was thinking at some point to make an editable list of ALL the oud makers we all know, and ones that us luthiers come in contact with when repairing ouds.. and we can add to the list.. the community would have access to this list.

This is a project I wanted to start myself, but I am too busy right now to begin this. Maybe someone wants to take that on and work with knowledgeable enthusiasts and luthiers.. perhaps if you're interested in starting the project you can if you'd like. I have some makers I'd add to the list myself. It can be arranged by the makers name, when they lived, where they worked from, and info like how many instruments they produced and the quality of them, and so on.

I know others have started something like this, but those projects remain in their possession, therefore the community cannot add to it. So if it existed somewhere in cyberspace and entries can be made by anyone, or at least those qualified, then this list would grow and encompass almost every maker out there. Just an idea! :)


I'd be happy to set up a database/register of oud makers and surviving ouds on my website if enough people were willing to get involved. Maybe it could be a collective effort coordinated through the forum, with a person or persons responsible for collecting data within their particular area of expertise?

Is anyone prepared to stick their neck out and set the ball rolling?

David

Alfaraby - 1-30-2014 at 03:05 AM

Hurray for A. Salhy ! He posted :
Here are some samples of Iskander & Salim Qadmany's music notes publications covers. Some sheets will follow later.
They must have been well acquainted with Turkish music.
Amusing to read that oud-maker in Turkish is oudajy :) like kondarjy (shoemaker), qahwajy (coffee maker), shorbajy (soup maker), boyaji (painter), qanounji (qanoun player), durbakji (percussionist), etc... like they are pronounced in Arabic.

Yours indeed
Alfaraby


[file]30216[/file] [file]30218[/file] [file]30220[/file] [file]30222[/file] [file]30224[/file] [file]30226[/file] [file]30228[/file] [file]30230[/file]

reminore - 2-1-2014 at 09:02 PM

it would read udju shamlu selim in ottoman...turkish needs the euphonic agreement in vowels which make it so pretty...

Oud Freak - 2-4-2014 at 02:17 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Joubran  
Other pictures of Wissam's reparation...

Olivier, Assistant
http://www.wissamjoubran.com



Great job, the oud looks clean and neat from the inside and the outside! Congrats!
Still, it seems (?) the soundboard has totally been replaced and not repaired... too bad in a way

big rosette broken

Nazih Ghadban - 2-4-2014 at 09:08 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Alfaraby  
Is it acceptable to put the restorer's rosette on an antique oud he mended ?

I wonder !

Yours indeed
Alfaraby


Rosette Story
Firstly I didn’t make any restoration on Kadamani !
When I got this Kadamani with the big rosette broken I decided to keep it for myself , as I was very happy to have a wonderful Kadamani like this oud.
As I didn’t intend for one moment to sell it,there I put my rosette only to fill the empty space Not to delete the traces of the famous Kadamani as the Kadamani label found inside the oud is the best proof of the truth of what I say .
I have said that to Wissam Jobran when I sent him the pictures of this oud to enjoy them not to sell the oud and telling him this Kadamani isn’t for sale.
I didn’t want any day to put my name on any oud for other maker to blur the truth .

All The Bests
Nazih Ghadban

Alfaraby - 2-5-2014 at 12:35 AM

Accepted explanation !
كلام معقول

Yours indeed
Alfaraby

Oud Freak - 2-5-2014 at 05:04 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Nazih Ghadban  
Quote: Originally posted by Alfaraby  
Is it acceptable to put the restorer's rosette on an antique oud he mended ?

I wonder !

Yours indeed
Alfaraby


Rosette Story
Firstly I didn’t make any restoration on Kadamani !
When I got this Kadamani with the big rosette broken I decided to keep it for myself , as I was very happy to have a wonderful Kadamani like this oud.
As I didn’t intend for one moment to sell it,there I put my rosette only to fill the empty space Not to delete the traces of the famous Kadamani as the Kadamani label found inside the oud is the best proof of the truth of what I say .
I have said that to Wissam Jobran when I sent him the pictures of this oud to enjoy them not to sell the oud and telling him this Kadamani isn’t for sale.
I didn’t want any day to put my name on any oud for other maker to blur the truth .

All The Bests
Nazih Ghadban


Mr. Ghadban thank you for your explanations and your clarifications in spite of your daily instrument creating and making, which already takes a great deal of time and concentration.

Regards,

OF

Alfaraby - 2-9-2014 at 10:15 AM

Here some sheets from one of the brothers' music notes booklets.

Enjoy and practice

Yours indeed
Alfaraby

Qadmany music notes 01 (Large).jpg - 175kB Qadmany music notes 02 (Large).jpg - 119kB Qadmany music notes 03 (Large).jpg - 152kB [file]30459[/file]

ALAMI - 2-9-2014 at 12:11 PM

I loved this oud at first sight, I asked Nazih many times about it and he always said that it was not for sale. I was a bit disappointed when I learned that it went away, but, now I see that it is in loving and caring hands. May the person who got it enjoy it in good health.

Alfaraby - 2-9-2014 at 12:44 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ALAMI  
I was a bit disappointed when I learned that it went away

Where have all the glorious ouds of the Orient gone ? Where have the most precious antiquities of all times gone ? Where are the most valuable Pharaonic, Islamic, Arabian monoments gone ?
To the same place !
كفّك عالضيعة جار :(

Yours indeed
Alfaraby