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The classic walnut oud

SamirCanada - 2-18-2014 at 05:26 PM

Hi my oud brothers,
Having been motivated by you all and in particular by Alfaraby

, I am embarking on my new quest to build a classic syrian style walnut oud with the traditional fittings (3 sound hole, fixed bridge, tasteful classic inlays). I have had this nice piece of walnut for about 4 years now and it was time to make a oud out of it. I cut it in a way that about half the grain is a sap wood and the other half is heart wood. Should be a cool patern develop as a result much like the nahat replica made by Ahmad the kuwaiti.

I will take my time with this one but it will be for sale at completion so if you are interested feel free to contact me to reserve the oud once finished. Just cant promise when as I have a 15 month old lady keeping me very busy.

[file]30554[/file] [file]30556[/file] [file]30558[/file] [file]30560[/file] [file]30562[/file] [file]30564[/file] [file]30566[/file]

muhssin - 2-21-2014 at 09:30 AM

wow

good luck Samir

SamirCanada - 2-21-2014 at 09:48 AM

Thank you,
I will need it.

Alfaraby - 2-22-2014 at 03:41 PM

Thanks Samir. I'm flattered. :bowdown:

If you ever need anything, please contact me. I may help with the rosette, fingerboard and pickguard designs.
Can't wait to see it happen.
I'd recommend, if I may to:
1) carve the neck & tail blocks to reduce their weight as much as you can go;
2) assemble each rib opposite to the other, making even greater design, like Michel Khawwam's I've posted here: http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=14474#pid98... , no spacers in between;
3) make a neat pegbox, Nahhat style, 12 holes;
4) make it a 615 mm scale, full Arabian masculine size, with an extended FB;
5) make a deep bowl, at least 190 mm deep. Adding depth shall enlarge the sound box and ensure more basses;
6) make a 3 round holes soundboard, using master grade, either spruce or cedar ;
7) use a dark burl wood veneer for the pickguard;
8) read all the posts of the forum

Good luck dear friend

Yours indeed
Alfaraby

SamirCanada - 2-22-2014 at 05:38 PM

Thanks for the Nahat style specifications AlFaraby.
I will try to stick to them.

My only issue is the 61.5 for the scale. I find it's a bit long and sounds good only when you tune down. Otherwise the strings are rather tight.
What's your take on that? Aren't there some Nahat's at 60cm? My abdelaziz al lissi Oud comes in at 63cm! It's a heavyweight

Alfaraby - 2-23-2014 at 01:42 AM

No dear ! I happen to see 610 mm scale Nahats, not 600.
630 mm is a common scale as well. I'm a bit zealous regarding the scale length, therefore none that falls from 610 mm would ensure the bassy sounds we all are out for.

Good luck
Yours indeed
Alfaraby

SamirCanada - 2-24-2014 at 06:53 PM

well, I am going to face some delay building this project. I have to find some better walnut.

the wood I had selected is refusing to play nice and I broke 5 ribs now being careful as possible. I think it may be due to the way the walnut was cut, on the quarter as opposed to flat sawn. It cracks in many little places at the most steep section of the curve.

Some progress :)

SamirCanada - 3-15-2014 at 03:32 PM

So I overcame the bending hurdle I had, I think the wood extra dry given we are just out of winter and I have had it stored many years.

some interesting shots in my workshop. I really wish I had a window in there sometimes but I pretty much always work when its dark out anyways so perhaps not as important as I feel.

I have got 2 ribs on already, I will share more pictures as I progress.

[file]30816[/file] [file]30818[/file] [file]30812[/file] [file]30814[/file]

Fritz - 3-27-2014 at 07:39 AM

Quote: Originally posted by SamirCanada

So I overcame the bending hurdle I had, I think the wood extra dry given we are just out of winter and I have had it stored many years.

some interesting shots in my workshop. I really wish I had a window in there sometimes but I pretty much always work when its dark out anyways so perhaps not as important as I feel.

I have got 2 ribs on already, I will share more pictures as I progress.

Hi Samir

I like to see your progress in Oud-making ! I would like to see more people trying to give life to old traditions like instrument-making by hand.

But, my question is : I often see the bent ribs tied together to hold the bent curve, like you have... but... I do not tie them... because : The outer rib will have another curve than the inner rib... the radius grows with the distance from the center of the curve !
Does ist not come to complications during the adapting of the ribs because of the (forced) different curve ? I would mention, that the body tends to be a bit asymmetrical while growing rib for rib.

Best wishes

Fritz from Germany

SamirCanada - 3-27-2014 at 10:29 AM

Hi Fritz,
I bend all the ribs at the approximate shape. Of course everyone of them has to be also cut to the shape then re-bent and tweeked to the exact shape so it can match the previous rib. I tie them so they stay in one place together while I work on the bowl.

Also, remember that I am trying to make a special pattern with this log. so I also tie them toegether so I dont loose track of which rib goes where. They are in order.

here is a quick pic of my progress, I am actually up to 7 ribs in now just havent taken a picture yet. You get the idea...

[file]31002[/file]

paulO - 3-27-2014 at 12:20 PM

That's some beautiful walnut you got going there !!! Thanks for posting the progress.

Regards,
PaulO

SamirCanada - 3-28-2014 at 05:32 AM

Thanks BrotherO

hussamd - 3-28-2014 at 05:56 AM

We need a thumbs-up option on this forum. Looks beautiful already! Keep up the great work. :applause:

Fritz - 3-28-2014 at 08:04 AM

Quote: Originally posted by SamirCanada

Hi Fritz,
I bend all the ribs at the approximate shape. Of course everyone of them has to be also cut to the shape then re-bent and tweeked to the exact shape so it can match the previous rib. I tie them so they stay in one place together while I work on the bowl.

Also, remember that I am trying to make a special pattern with this log. so I also tie them toegether so I dont loose track of which rib goes where. They are in order.

here is a quick pic of my progress, I am actually up to 7 ribs in now just havent taken a picture yet. You get the idea...

Hi Samir

Ah... only to hold the in one place on the workbench... that´s a reason :-)

I bend the woods (ribs), letting them dry for one night and day if the wood is bent wet), then I bend again (dry) until the curve matches. Before any rib is bent, I lay the selected wood on the floor and changing the stripes until the pattern is good (grain, colour, orientation)... to give them numbers written with a waterproof fiber pencil to give them the position they will have on the mould. Then I begin to bend the ribs... one for left, one for the right side, pair by pair.

Ofcourse I got the idea seeing the pic, nice wood ! I have nearly the same grain and the change of colour, but my walnut isn´t as dark as yours. But I will use another wood for the 1st (middle) rib, so all the next pairs of ribs will match crossing in grain. I think, you began with the middle rib, and against this you take the next on each side to complete the pattern. But... there will be an asymmetrical pattern resulting ? Therefore I use to take a straight grained wood for the 1st rib to give the meaning of the middle of the ribs and of the Oud itself.. and every pair of ribs will be like the other on one to the other side on the completed bowl.

I sometimes thought of making a bowl without a "middle"rib to match the need given by such nice grained and coloured wood... placing them bookmatched on the mould without a center rib. Do you think, it´s worth a try ? Or will it completely be unusual ?

Kind regards

Fritz

SamirCanada - 3-28-2014 at 08:52 AM

I do the same as for the bending my friend.

I know it will be uneven because of the uneven amount of ribs and the center rib... I think when the bowl is finished you will not be able to spot these with the naked eye unless you really are looking for it.

You are right, making a bowl with an even number of ribs and without a center rib could be a solution for perfect but maybe its not as strong if the center rib is missing and it is instead a glue joint?

I like the different wood rib in the middle like you describe, I think it should be also acompanied by the last 2 on each side *the ribs that connect with the soundboard. They should be all the same wood. looks nice

Fritz - 3-28-2014 at 09:38 AM

Quote: Originally posted by SamirCanada

I do the same as for the bending my friend.

Samir :-)

Wow... that´s a fast answer :-)

Yes... as I mentioned... but... who would notice the glue joint as the middle instead a rib ? :-) May be I´ll try one example building with an even number of ribs to see how it works... and looks. You´re right, no one will see the dismatching outer ribs when not just exactly looking for a difference... but... I would have this in mind... and that´s reason enough for me not to do it :-)) You have to know : I have an extremely mind for symmetrics...

I don´t think it´s a bad choice to match the ribs perfectly, and even if the amount is not uneven, the look of the bowl allows a try :-)

But better with a center rib, perhaps in a contrasting colour... and ofcourse the last ribs, wearing the face, have to be the same wood... A nice imagination, when the wood cries for bookmatched positioning :-) The sides of the pegbox in the same wood as the center rib, the bottom made of an equal like the rest of the bowl. (An Oud is growing in my mind :-))

We will see... anyway :-) (perhaps in some pics)

Best wishes to you

Fritz

SamirCanada - 4-9-2014 at 05:52 AM

I want to share with everyone my new facebook page where you can all follow my work.
It will prevent me crowding the space here with too many pictures.

https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=754265281252695

I made some progress as you can see only 5 ribs to go now

thank you,

Samir.

Fritz - 4-22-2014 at 12:03 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SamirCanada

I want to share with everyone my new facebook page where you can all follow my work.
It will prevent me crowding the space here with too many pictures.

https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=754265281252695

I made some progress as you can see only 5 ribs to go now

thank you,

Samir.

Hi Samir

I knew it : This must result in a very fine looking... the grain and colour is well tuned to the ribs... I wait for the pics showing the whole bowl !

Wishing good progress...

Fritz

updates

SamirCanada - 5-2-2014 at 11:41 AM

Hi my oud brothers,
finished the bowl a few weeks ago now, went to Cuba for a wonderful family vacation and now back on track ready to start with the rest of the oud.

Here we see shots of the bowl which still needs some scrapping and also some of the pegbox sidewalls which will be made of soft maple and walnut exterior. The neck blank was roughed out in walnut as well. The string length will be 61.5 in keeping with the traditional measurements described by our friend AlFaraby.

Please like my facebook page for more pictures and updates.
https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=754265281252695

thank you,
Samir

some updates

SamirCanada - 8-13-2014 at 06:32 AM

I was side tracked with repairs and projects but I managed to complete the pegbox, the neck and the bridge for this instrument.

I now have the soundboard glued up and I am starting to think about how to finalize it. Those interested in purchasing this oud when its done who wish to have some input on how I finish the rest of the oud (inlays, rosette, pickguard etc...)
please contact me at the email below.

SamirCanada - 10-15-2014 at 07:56 AM

I have made some progress on the face now. next step is to thin the face to final thickness and to instal the braces. the design is inspired by a famous george hanna nahat model. this was a long but rewarding process

[file]32879[/file] [file]32881[/file] [file]32883[/file] [file]32885[/file] [file]32887[/file] [file]32889[/file] [file]32891[/file] [file]32893[/file] [file]32895[/file]

BaniYazid - 10-15-2014 at 11:31 AM

Wow, well done!

bulerias1981 - 10-15-2014 at 07:05 PM

nicely done.. classic Nahat look

SamirCanada - 10-16-2014 at 04:43 AM

thank you guys.

Alfaraby - 10-16-2014 at 12:37 PM

Samir dear
As I was part of the inspiration

I'll ask to make the finest pegbox possible. A big pegbox on a beautiful oud is just like a pretty lady with big hands !
Excuse me
We've dried out waiting for this beauty to be finished, so help us if you please
Thanks again for sharing

Yours indeed
Alfaraby

SamirCanada - 10-16-2014 at 02:12 PM

Ahaha good one,
Well I made the pegbox already in the traditional shape. Maybe looks big on pictures but it's apropriate to the old ouds I have seen.

SamirCanada - 10-31-2014 at 05:23 AM

sorry to have keep you all waiting but like a fine scotch this beauty is taking its time. Onto a little update.
here is what's done, top is mounted and braced, pickguard is done,
edge tiles are done, bridge is glued. fingerboard is glued and planed flush, neck is mounted, pegbox is glued in.

here is what's left to do. extend the edge tiles along the fingerboard. Install pegs and shape pegbox, make the nut, make the rosettes, install strings, and finally varnish

we are almost there !

[file]33048[/file] [file]33052[/file]

[file]33054[/file]

[file]33056[/file]

Fritz - 10-31-2014 at 11:08 AM

Quote: Originally posted by SamirCanada

I have made some progress on the face now. next step is to thin the face to final thickness and to instal the braces. the design is inspired by a famous george hanna nahat model. this was a long but rewarding process

Hey Samir

I see an absolutely awesome work ! Fabulous !

And you say, I am brave ? What shall I say !!!???

Wonderful, really ! Perhaps I will try such pattern on one of the next Ouds I make in the style of Ghadban... I love this pattern. And your marquetry on the pick guard is also awesome !

Very nice work !!!

Best wishes to you

Fritz

Microber - 10-31-2014 at 12:57 PM

Samir, it's very nice. The inlay around the soundhole is wonderful. And the pickguard ! :applause:

some updates

SamirCanada - 11-10-2014 at 08:02 AM

I have been busy making this oud come to life. the edge tiles are done around the fingerboard now, I began cutting the rosettes by hand, they are of maple but will be hand painted to look like ivory before I install them. this is very hard work demanding extreme concentration.

I have also began applying the tru-oil finish which is making the bowl take a beautiful color. in 2 weeks or so we should be able to hear it

I am getting exited now I cant wait.

I also want to remind everyone, this oud is still without a potential owner. If you would like to provide a good home for it please contact me at nassif.samir@gmail.com

faggiuols - 11-10-2014 at 08:26 AM

very nice Samir
compliments.

abc123xyz - 11-10-2014 at 11:20 AM

I really like how the alternating dark and light bands on the ribs looks.

When I first saw it, I thought you'd used two kinds of wood and had come up with some new way of shaping and joining the ribs, lol.

David

SamirCanada - 11-10-2014 at 11:27 AM

yes, this was done on purpose. Walnut has a nice contrast of colors between the heartwood and sapwood.

In order to achieve this look. one must take care to resaw all the ribs from the same log, mark and number each rib so it can be reversed matched by pair. Its kind of a pain but it think it looks nice also.

jdowning - 11-10-2014 at 12:57 PM

Very nice work Samir.
How long did it take to cut that admirable main rosette? How did you avoid breaking those tiny thin details of the pattern when sawing by hand?

SamirCanada - 11-10-2014 at 02:08 PM

Hi Sir John,
The main rosette is only a little more than half way done. I suppose it's been roughly
5 hours so another 4 hours left or so not including breaks. I have to take breaks though because it requires peak mental and physical concentratation. Also I am not cutting by hand but rather using a dewalt scroll saw at the lowest speed setting. Enables me to use both hands to control the work peice.
The rosette peice is 3 layers of walnut veneers glued together in alternate grain directions and a 5mm thick maple main peice. This is what allows the thin lines

Fritz - 11-10-2014 at 02:39 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SamirCanada

I have been busy making this oud come to life. the edge tiles are done around the fingerboard now, I began cutting the rosettes by hand, they are of maple but will be hand painted to look like ivory before I install them. this is very hard work demanding extreme concentration.

I have also began applying the tru-oil finish which is making the bowl take a beautiful color. in 2 weeks or so we should be able to hear it

Hi Samir

Absolutely great work you´ve done !

This Oud looks like following all traditions... and ofcourse the ornament for the big sound hole is ultra !!!!!

How do you get such templates ??? And what is meant in the calligraphy ? If this inscribing isn´t a personal "message", would you please send me a template ? I made a very difficult one in the past with calligraphy all over, but I was said the "text" was too religious and would never be assembled to an Oud... and I destroyed it. I like your ornament very very much... and it would be a gift for me to make this for one or more of my Ouds.

Also the small ones... they remind me on some Ouds... may be early Nahhat design ? I made two of them for the soundboard wich carried the ornament with the calligraphy I told about. But... as you can imagine... this soundboard never comes to life on an Oud. It was made of finest spanish cypres, very very thin and rigid... it had perhaps made a good sound...

Please tell me what you think about my wish...

Also YOU have to go on Oud-making !!! Yes !

Best wishes

Fritz

SamirCanada - 11-10-2014 at 03:28 PM

The rosette was drawn for me by our friend al Faraby (jameel) on the forums, maybe he can make one for you. It's not religious at all it's an old Nahat design with the names of maqamat around. The center is my name so it's best you don't use it

but I don't mind, your ouds are nice.

Fritz - 11-11-2014 at 10:00 AM

Quote: Originally posted by SamirCanada

The rosette was drawn for me by our friend al Faraby (jameel) on the forums, maybe he can make one for you. It's not religious at all it's an old Nahat design with the names of maqamat around. The center is my name so it's best you don't use it

but I don't mind, your ouds are nice.

Hey Samir

Thanks for the help... I know the site of Jameel... an extraordinary worker with outstanding results

I will ask him for a template of the rosette. Scaling for the right diameter isn´t the prob, so I could adapt it to the right size.

Mehran - 11-11-2014 at 03:38 PM

Wonderful work. Elegant and classic.

SamirCanada - 11-11-2014 at 07:03 PM

very nice Fritz, thank you for sharing.

Fritz - 11-12-2014 at 12:56 PM

Mehran... Samir...

I deleted my posting with the pix ... not to disturb another ones thread.

Best wishes

Fritz

SamirCanada - 11-12-2014 at 01:19 PM

pegs are in, the nut is made and Finally the rosettes are done cutting total cutting time was about 9 hours.

SamirCanada - 11-13-2014 at 06:04 AM

they ask me what the secret of the true traditional arabic sound is. It has nothing to do with bracing. Its all about who you have in there. This is why I have appointed my great grandfather as Director of Tarab and historical sound.

Fritz - 11-13-2014 at 10:10 AM

Quote: Originally posted by SamirCanada

pegs are in, the nut is made and Finally the rosettes are done cutting total cutting time was about 9 hours.

Very very nice work !

Also the idea to give the end of the pegbox this small matching inlay !

SamirCanada - 11-14-2014 at 06:07 AM

here we can see I am testing the fit of the new rosette, the small ones are glued in, the big one will be glued tonight.

Microber - 11-14-2014 at 11:00 AM

Wow, Samir, the big rosette with the face and the inlay around ! It's just perfect !

journeyman - 11-14-2014 at 05:53 PM

Yea Samir! That oud is looking beautiful! I can't wait to hear what it sounds like. Lets talk soon. -Roy

Fritz - 11-15-2014 at 03:06 AM

Quote: Originally posted by SamirCanada

here we can see I am testing the fit of the new rosette, the small ones are glued in, the big one will be glued tonight.

Amazing... really amazing work !!!

What a beautyful face !

faggiuols - 11-17-2014 at 01:48 AM

Samir very nice!
the rosettes are beautiful!

SamirCanada - 11-17-2014 at 05:49 PM

I am going to take some high quality pictures this week hopefully but in the meantime
Enjoy this little sound sample. Of the Ouds I made, this is the one with the most projection.

http://youtu.be/XQeLA3Cxszs

Don Z - 11-17-2014 at 05:53 PM

I need to ask a stupid question; how do you get the rosettes in?

journeyman - 11-17-2014 at 06:44 PM

Very nice Samir. Sounds very warm and dark right out of the gate. Congratulations on that beauty. -Roy

SamirCanada - 11-18-2014 at 08:39 AM

thank you Roy

hope you can try it one day.

DonZ the rosettes are put in by magic

No, really the trick is that there is a small notch cut on the side but you canot see once its glued because its in the area under the soundboard. it allows the rosette to in.

some quick and dirty pictures with my cell phone. I will make some high def pictures that will go in the ouds for sale post. Contact me if you are intersted in the oud.

[file]33365[/file] [file]33367[/file] [file]33369[/file] [file]33371[/file]

Hasan - 11-18-2014 at 09:43 AM

beautiful looks and sound

Gocauo - 11-18-2014 at 10:49 AM

That is gorgeous!

eldad - 11-18-2014 at 10:53 AM

Congratulations very nice work sounds great :applause:

what is the string action ?

SamirCanada - 11-18-2014 at 12:32 PM

Action is very low, its at 2.5mm

Mehran - 11-18-2014 at 01:00 PM

braavo 3aleek. Great sound right out the 'factory' and gorgeous to behold.

mavrothis - 11-18-2014 at 01:38 PM

Love this oud Samir! Looks and sound are just excellent. Bravo!

mavrothi

SamirCanada - 11-19-2014 at 06:59 AM

Thanks very much guys.

rootsguitar - 11-19-2014 at 01:40 PM

Sharp work!!! Cool blog too...

Alfaraby - 11-19-2014 at 02:14 PM

Samir my friend
Great job, both the lookings and the sound. This's one of the finest oriental sounds I've heard lately from a newly made oud.
Very impressive indeed.

I only have one remark to make about the FB. Black does not suit the general profile coloring of this instrument. Next time (or even this one) consider lighter color hardwoods like the rosewood family. They'd look perfect on this masterpiece.

I also like to thank you for the credit you've given me to design your logo inside the old well known Maqamat rosette. I have reformulated the old calligraphy in the supposedly Nahat design, adding some touches and replacing some letters. However, it seems it's not a Nahat's matchless style now when we see it on other makers' oud like the Hasbany's Bro. 1921 listed in ebay lately. It came as a surprise to me, this maker's name & his rosette.
How little we know indeed about anything.

In short, you've done a great job fellow. Hurray ! :bowdown:

Go ahead with this. You seem to know what you're about pal.

Good luck
Yours indeed
Alfaraby

SamirCanada - 11-19-2014 at 05:17 PM

Thanks Alfaraby,
this was my 7th oud from start to finish and my 10th top. I guess I am learning everyday. Especially for this top I looked at the designs of Nahat, al-Lissi(which I have at home), manol and I tried to take some aspects from all of them. I made the top at 1.7mm thin but I used bracing from Manol and Nahat combined in a way to leave a lot of the face to vibrate.

About the fingerboard, it's in there now, its not going anywhere, I agree with the colour combination however ebony to me is the best feeling material. I will use the fingerboard material of your choice on the Oud you order

suz_i_dil - 11-20-2014 at 08:20 PM

Congratulations Samir.
Great looking instrument and i really love the sound on your recording. Bravo !!! Continue in this way

Microber - 11-21-2014 at 01:41 AM

Again congratulations for this wonderful work, Samir.
As far as I can judge by listening on my computer, the sound is beautiful.
Robert

francis - 12-8-2014 at 01:37 PM

Bravo, Samir, superbe travail et son magique!

Francis

SamirCanada - 12-9-2014 at 05:12 AM

Merci, Thank you.