Mike's Oud Forums

New arabian Oud in egyptian style

Fritz - 10-6-2014 at 11:52 AM

Hi guys

I am working on the next Oud, a big custom made instrument with 600mm string length, fully made of very light mahogany.
The bowl is already completed, the slight inner curve of the top is prepared. The top will be made of caucasian fine spruce with very tight rings.

Have a look...

Best wishes to all of you

Fritz

Microber - 10-6-2014 at 10:48 PM

What a beauty !

Fritz - 10-16-2014 at 10:22 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Microber  
What a beauty !


Thanks, Rob...

but... wait until it is completed :-)

This Oud is again a custom made one for a special person. He wants an Oud with nearly no optical effects... so I try to give as much of beauty as I can with the wood itself, you know ?

Kind regards

Fritz

Fritz - 11-5-2014 at 01:00 PM

The next pix of the progress...

faggiuols - 11-6-2014 at 03:04 AM

great Fritz
you're really good!

Fritz - 11-6-2014 at 01:52 PM

Quote: Originally posted by faggiuols  
great Fritz
you're really good!


As allways : I try my very best with the Ouds I build... That´s all I can do...

Thanks

Fritz - 12-3-2014 at 09:28 AM

Hi folks

After a lot of work on the maple Oud... it´s time again for the mahogany Oud. The top is completed, the ornament for the sound hole fixed, the bridge assembled, the bracings are mounted and tuned... soon the face will come on the bowl...

Again I can´t post one pic... allthough everything is right with it...

Only the ornament...

Alfaraby - 12-4-2014 at 08:05 AM

This looks great as always, pal :)
Keep it up and let us see.
Thank you

Yourd indeed
Alfaraby

hans - 12-4-2014 at 11:21 AM

The unfinished mahogany bowl looks gorgeous, it's almost a pity to put something onto the wood!

Fritz - 12-4-2014 at 03:25 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Alfaraby  
This looks great as always, pal :)
Keep it up and let us see.
Thank you

Yourd indeed
Alfaraby


Ofcourse I will :-)

Fritz - 12-4-2014 at 03:41 PM

Quote: Originally posted by hans  
The unfinished mahogany bowl looks gorgeous, it's almost a pity to put something onto the wood!


Hey guy :)

Perhaps I disappoint you a bit... but there is some shellaque on the bowl... because of more than one reason ...

One reason is to prevent the wood from touching with sweating fingers and leaving dust and "dirt" on it while working on it... the 2nd reason is to prevent the bowl from glue while glueing the face ! Squeezing glue might run over the fine sanded wood of the ribs... you have to remove ... this is prevented by covering the bowl with some layers of shellaque. The glue will not stick on shellaque !

And I think... French polish is the best way to cover fine instruments made of wood. It´s a noble and upper-class finish and a special skill to apply a nice glossy looking... not too much glossy, but enough... depending on the wood to cover.

Some woods are "satisfied" with a dozen layers, some need much more to be sealed enough. Some are able to get some oil in the polish after a few turns of applying polish, some need a double dozen to enable the use of oil. Some woods aren´t sanded between the polish-sessions, some are sanded after mostly every layer. Some are needing thin solutions, some needs thicker viskosity...

I could name much other things... but I do not want to write a book :-)

You surely know what I mean :-)

Kind regards

Fritz

Fritz - 12-14-2014 at 02:53 AM

Another update :)

Also on this Oud the neck is assembled... the fingerboard will come this week. The angle is made to get an action by about 2,5mm... less if needed. So the option is included :)

There is a mahogany middle in the neck to prevent any torsion and ability to come up sometimes... this neck is very stiff...
Again I will use a relatively thick fingerboard of black with brown ebony to make the contrast not too hard. It will begin with about 4mm at the neckblock and ends by about 6mm at the saddle.. this is the plan :)



[file]33658[/file] [file]33660[/file] [file]33662[/file]

bulerias1981 - 12-14-2014 at 07:40 AM

Very nice, sometimes I either use a solid wood for the neck, or I do as you do with, with a wood joined in the middle for more strength.

Fritz - 12-17-2014 at 12:48 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bulerias1981  
Very nice, sometimes I either use a solid wood for the neck, or I do as you do with, with a wood joined in the middle for more strength.


Hi John

When I have a fine piece of spruce for the neck, the rings rectangular to the fingerboard, than I might use it as a solid core... in every other case I try to give a middle made of harder wood, but never ebony, that would be too heavy. Rosewood or hard mahogany or hard nut-wood is the best for the inner tile. My opinion.

While I was bulding these two Ouds... I decided to make the neck as a single part, not assembled when the bowl is without the top as many other builders do. So I can be sure to match the exact middle line of the top, the bowl itself, and the position of the bridge (I glue the bridge after making the inlays in the face and attaching the pickguard... then the bracings...)

So I am able to control the angle of the neck-surface against the face.... and the line from neck-end center, neck-beginning center and the bridge center, following the glueing joint of the top very precisely.

Fritz - 12-21-2014 at 11:53 AM

Also on this Oud the pegbox is almost ready... built in the same way as I did on the maple Oud-Pegbox...

bulerias1981 - 12-21-2014 at 01:24 PM

Nice clamping jigs for the neck, I use spring clamps most of the time, or nylon twin tightly wrapped around, but this seems good too.

Fritz - 12-28-2014 at 10:41 AM

Also for this Oud I made the pegbox... awaiting the wanted design for the tip of the box ... the customer had a special idea. The pegbox isn´t mounted, but fits perfectly...

Jody Stecher - 12-28-2014 at 01:00 PM

The oud and pegbox together are very beautiful. But also impressive is everything else in the photo. Is this your workshop? If it is, it is astonishingly clean and tidy. I have never seen a luthier's work place so neat and clean.

Fritz - 12-30-2014 at 10:49 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Jody Stecher  
The oud and pegbox together are very beautiful. But also impressive is everything else in the photo. Is this your workshop? If it is, it is astonishingly clean and tidy. I have never seen a luthier's work place so neat and clean.


Hi Jody :)

Nice to see you checking my pix. And... yes.. my workshop is clean almost every time... ofcourse there are other days with planing chips al around or sanding dust in my whole flat .. my workshop is one of three rooms I have in my flat... So I want to have this room clean like it would be a dining room perhaps...

A structured and clean workshop invites more to work on something :-) It´s a good base, you know...

Fritz

Fritz - 2-4-2015 at 08:23 PM

Hi folks

the Oud is completed, very easy to play and sounds loud and clear. The new strings have to set for a time... will see asap how it really sounds with tuining...

paulO - 2-4-2015 at 10:06 PM

Lovely understated work Fritz, can't wait to hear it !!

Regards,
Paul

Adel Salameh - 2-5-2015 at 04:47 AM

Well done Fritz, very beautiful work, however...
The end of the Bowl must be semi circle, most of our masters did it that way... a bowl like this with the end being straight is not a nice looking nor comfortable for the player....

just my observation....I hope you are not going to be upset.
all the best,
Adel
http://www.adelsalameh.com/oudcamp.php

Alfaraby - 2-5-2015 at 12:34 PM

Adel probably means this shape of the legendary Hanna Nahat !
I agree, but yet there are other schools, beside our friends' from Damascus.
Fritz titled the project "... Egyptian style" and on the other hand, he had built another shape here:
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/files.php?pid=104879&aid=3...
Both are great works, dear pal :)

Yours indeed
Alfaraby

[file]34313[/file]

jdowning - 2-6-2015 at 03:23 PM

No early ouds survive ('out with the old in with the new' philosophy no doubt) so it is difficult to judge but few ouds with a semicircular sound board geometry survive and no lutes as far as I am aware. The best surviving oud of this kind may be that of the Lebanese brothers A-Arja owned by forum member ALAMI.

One of the earliest European lute to survive in original condition by Giovanni Hieber dates to the second half of the 16th C. It has a 'flattened' bottom bowl geometry similar to the admirable oud made by Fritz. Indeed both the European oud masters and the later oud masters such as the Nahat family used a more sophisticated lower bowl geometry that was close to an ellipse in geometry (egg shaped or oval in reality - easier to create than an ellipse).

For a more detailed examination of oud/lute geometry see here:

http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=11186

Geometrical preferences no doubt are also influenced by visual appeal rather than acoustical superiority - as always "beauty is in the eye of the beholder"!

Nice work Fritz

[file]34325[/file]

Adel Salameh - 2-7-2015 at 12:09 AM

Dear friends... I would have not commented on this thread if I did not like Fritz work ... I have said it and I will say it again ... Well done and very beautiful work ... Coming back to my point , the poor player will have to spend more money and time on fixing his / her back and shoulder than he/she spent on the oud ... Their is nothing elegant about a straight line bowl ... Take the cheapest and lower end oud made by Hanna, Roufan, Abdo Nahat and you will see how elegant the bowl is ... Also you have some great examples from the Egyptian school like lacy ... I believe as a player that this kind of straight line should be banned follow stop and makers should think also of the player and how comfortable he/she is with the instrument and not to have any obstacle between them to produce the best which can come out of the instrument ... Best wishes ,
Adel
http://www.adelsalameh.com/oudcamp.php

Fritz - 2-9-2015 at 02:22 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Alfaraby  
Adel probably means this shape of the legendary Hanna Nahat !
I agree, but yet there are other schools, beside our friends' from Damascus.
Fritz titled the project "... Egyptian style" and on the other hand, he had built another shape here:
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/files.php?pid=104879&aid=3...
Both are great works, dear pal :)

Yours indeed
Alfaraby



Dear AlFaraby

Thanks a lot for your comment... I see there are some different opinions about the shape of the lower end of the bowl... and as you noticed yet... the style was chosen depending on many egyptian Ouds I´ve seen, and the wish of the customer.

Ofcourse there are other schools and styles... the most of them may be found on the most Ouds made in Syria or Libanon and other countries... but I don´t want to copy all these... making my own experience with the outline of the face, forcing the shape of the bowl.

In the future I will make some more moulds with differing shape, trying to meet the taste of the Oud-playing generation of now and later.

We´ll keep in touch... best wishes to you !

Fritz

Fritz - 2-9-2015 at 02:39 PM

Quote: Originally posted by jdowning  
No early ouds survive ('out with the old in with the new' philosophy no doubt) so it is difficult to judge but few ouds with a semicircular sound board geometry survive and no lutes as far as I am aware. The best surviving oud of this kind may be that of the Lebanese brothers A-Arja owned by forum member ALAMI.

One of the earliest European lute to survive in original condition by Giovanni Hieber dates to the second half of the 16th C. It has a 'flattened' bottom bowl geometry similar to the admirable oud made by Fritz. Indeed both the European oud masters and the later oud masters such as the Nahat family used a more sophisticated lower bowl geometry that was close to an ellipse in geometry (egg shaped or oval in reality - easier to create than an ellipse).

For a more detailed examination of oud/lute geometry see here:

http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=11186

Geometrical preferences no doubt are also influenced by visual appeal rather than acoustical superiority - as always "beauty is in the eye of the beholder"!

Nice work Fritz



Hi jdowning

With very high interest I followed your really high graded examination of constructing the shape of the face of an Oud... and there are many things I totally agree with. Let me say that I will take some of your ideas to create some of the next Oud-moulds to produce a more rounded lower end. But I really think : The idea to make a try to ground the shape to a special base... as you did on some original shapes of Oud-faces... but who knows if this was the real way of construction? It´s easy to make such tries to existing Oud-faces... dpending on the shape given... but to create an own shape... that´s the way I feel ! And the moulds I made are only from my own head and hands. And keep in mind, that I am a German, not surrounded with Ouds in every place, having no player or maker in the near (and far) neighbourhood. And the old masters have had teachers with many years of experience, and their own experience after many years. I am making Oud since a few years, and if I would have more time and freeness, I would have been making some more instruments. Having no teacher, no time and no money... creating and constructing all on my own. The old masters (and new perhaps) are mostly coming from the countries of origin, where the Oud is as usual as the guitar is here. That´s the difference, you know ?

But ofcourse... I try to make my Ouds better every day, and so I like every critics on my making... if good or "bad".. I learn from both !

Kind regards

Fritz

Fritz - 2-9-2015 at 02:42 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Adel Salameh  
Dear friends... I would have not commented on this thread if I did not like Fritz work ... I have said it and I will say it again ... Well done and very beautiful work ... Coming back to my point , the poor player will have to spend more money and time on fixing his / her back and shoulder than he/she spent on the oud ... Their is nothing elegant about a straight line bowl ... Take the cheapest and lower end oud made by Hanna, Roufan, Abdo Nahat and you will see how elegant the bowl is ... Also you have some great examples from the Egyptian school like lacy ... I believe as a player that this kind of straight line should be banned follow stop and makers should think also of the player and how comfortable he/she is with the instrument and not to have any obstacle between them to produce the best which can come out of the instrument ... Best wishes ,
Adel
[url]http://www.adelsalameh.com/oudcamp.php
[/url]

Dear Adel !

It´s fine to see you looking at my instruments and giving a note to them.

I take your critics as a way for me to learn, what some people say about my work. I will react in some way, surely seen in some of my next Ouds... be patient... I am still at the beginning... and I´m learning every day !

Kind regards

Fritz

Fritz - 2-9-2015 at 02:49 PM

Quote: Originally posted by paulO  
Lovely understated work Fritz, can't wait to hear it !!

Regards,
Paul


Hi Paul

Fortunately I will get some sound samples from the player I built this Oud for... or from his friend. My playing isn´t good enough to give a good sample... so I depend on people who are playing the Oud.

The sample followes asap ! :-)

Fritz