hamed - 1-18-2005 at 09:02 PM
hello everyone, i use 440 hz frequency to tune my oud, but lately after listening to some old fairuz and um koltoum songs, i notice that my playing is
always a quarter tone or so higher. Are my ears off, or is there a better frequency to tune to.
thank you
Elie Riachi - 1-18-2005 at 09:45 PM
Hello,
Maybe the playback speed is a little off.
TruePharaoh21 - 1-18-2005 at 09:48 PM
Hamed, I'm glad that you noticed this. Many of the songs of Om Kolthoum that I am aware of are not played on 440 (Alf Leyla we Leyla is one of
the few that I've found is - Nahawand G, if I'm not mistaken).
In fact, I usually have to mess around with the pitch to find out which note to play it from. I don't know about the Fairuz songs, but
that's how it is with Om Kalthoum. If you'd like, please tell me which song you are trying to play, and I will put it on 440 for you and
send it to you (in Real player format so that it's much smaller).
Om Kolthoum, when on a different pitch, will sound quite different to you, but hey... at least you'll learn the song!
Don't be afraid to ask for songs. I'd be more than happy to help.
TP21
440
hamed - 1-18-2005 at 10:03 PM
thanks for offering to teach me, i really appreciate it, but i can learn the song even if its in a different pitch, i just noticed this and it threw
me off a bit when I was playing along with the song. i'm glad to know that i'm not the only one with this problem. I guess what i was
looking for though is the actual pitch that older arabic songs are played on, so i can tune to that pitch. Somehow i feel that 440 doesn't sound
"arabic" enough, if that makes any sense.
thanks again
TruePharaoh21 - 1-18-2005 at 10:11 PM
You know, it's very difficult to tell. Some songs are way off from 440. Some are about half of a half step off. It really varies. For example, if
you listen to the taqsims of Farid el-Atrache posted on this site, you'll find that he's tuned down about 75% of a half of a step. Each
singer apparently just tuned to whatever made their voice most comfortable. If anyone has other info, please let me know.
TP21
samzayed - 1-19-2005 at 12:52 AM
This is an interesting topic. I posted a thread on this some time ago, and it seems that some older songs, like Ok Kolsum and Farid seem to
"sometimes" tune down to 437 for concert pitch, or even tune down a half step lower (about 435, if I'm not mistaken).
Even older recordings of Riad Al-Sumbati seem to be tuned down somewhat.
Regards,
Sam
eliot - 1-19-2005 at 10:17 PM
I don't know how reliable my "source" is, however I was told on several occasions (and have read in amateur articles) that in the
process of rehearsing or performing songs, Oum Kalsoum's orchestra would often tune specifically and precisely for a particular piece, but not to
a particular hertz-value. The "D" of Bayyati on D ranged from modern-day C to F, depending on the piece and the choice of the
conductor/director of the orchestra. Listening back to her recordings, there's certainly evidence to support that hypothesis!
Thus, her old recordings aren't systematic like 78 RPM records, which you can precisely determine the cutting speed based on the manufacturer and
imprint # (recording speeds were systematically logged).
One thing you can listen for, in some songs, is where oud or violin open strings are located, thus determining a tuning for that piece. In the 1930s
recordings, you also can hear the qanun player bending particular notes, as fewer (if any) mandals were in use by certain qanun players.
nice informative reading.
Walidk - 1-21-2005 at 08:54 AM
Hi all,
I came across this nice Encyclopedia description and historical background on music pitch and standards.
Really interesting and informative.
Reading this article, I'm not surprised any more that music (especially old recordings) could be using different pitch than 440Hz.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitch_(music)
Enjoy.
samzayed - 1-21-2005 at 03:13 PM
Sorry, but in my thread above, I meant 437 and 435 (not 337, etc.) I have since change them, sorry for the typo