Mike's Oud Forums

Egypt Oud

egypt omar - 1-19-2005 at 07:06 PM

i recently bought an oud in Egypt for the equivalent of $50 US.. does anyone know about such ouds in Egypt,, their quality, etc? it sounds nice, i just need to learn the tuning for the thing..

Zulkarnain - 1-20-2005 at 08:51 AM

Hi

Yeah the quality is definately great for decoration or display! Worth buying!

Congratulation!

revaldo29 - 1-20-2005 at 04:07 PM

Hey Omar,

Congratulations on your new oud and hobby :applause: The oud you purchased is probably not the best quality oud but that doesn't mean that you can't make beautiful music out of it. Where I come from in Libya, most of the ouds that people own and play are the cheapest on the market, yet they soundn amazing on them because they tweak and mess with them to get the sound they want. I really disagree with the notion that someone needs a high level oud to start on. You can learn the basics on any oud and when you get to the point where the quality of the instrument is hindering your playing ability, then I think you need to move up to something better. All this, however, is all speculation. I really don't know what kind of oud you have or even if it is playable. Zulk is more familiar with the ouds in Egypt and their prices so he may be right about your oud. Try it out and mess with it for a couple of months. If its so bad that you can't even keep the strings from going out of tune, then you probably need a new oud. But as long as the strings remain tuned, I think you are ok starting off. Now, as far as tuning goes, the tuning for Arabic is either CFAdgc or DGAdgc (low to high). If you're new to music all together and don't have a good ear, you need to get a chromatic tuner and use it to tune. Finally, if you see that the oud is staying in tune, then getting better strings will make a big difference. I've used the cheap egyptian strings before and they suck. I hope this is enough to get you started. If you feel after a while that you need a better oud, there are always great deals on this forum.

Monawar Al-Jabar - 1-21-2005 at 04:46 AM

If you are looking for a Good Oud you need to logon to http://www.nielshop.net or you can call Yehai on 0020102796450 he will get you a good Oud from the best Oud maker in Egypt and that is maurice.

My Egyptian Oud

egypt omar - 1-25-2005 at 11:36 AM

Thanks for teh number.. next time i'm in egypt i'll definitely give it a ring. Although my new Oud sounds really nice and looks really nice, i know that it could be much better and much more professional. I wonder how much a professional oud would cost in Egypt.. anyone know by chance?
Omar:airguitar:

number of strings

egypt omar - 1-25-2005 at 11:41 AM

Hey all again.. I was wondering, so the Oud i have is definitely worthy of being played and is not simply a decorative item. It sounds really nice and doesnt go out of tune that easily. I am definitely going to be getting non-Egyptian strings sometime soon, just to see how the difference is.. I'm sure Egyptians arent the best string makers in teh world :)
As for the strings, so teh top string is a solo string, then there are only 4 sets of double strings under that. Shouldnt there be an additional 5 sets? I actually dont mind the way it's set up now, but does anyone know how the tuning of the "5 strings" should go? Thanks again Oudists.
Omar

mourad_X - 1-25-2005 at 02:29 PM

hi egypt omar

yes some cheap ouds can sound realy nice (with the right strings on it) sometimes. i 've got one made by said kamel mourci
i bought it for less than 100 USD and i love to have it
becouse i can take it with me everywhere without caring to mutch about it
and fore recordings i have a nice midrange turkish oud

i'm looking forward to see a picture of your oud

regards
mourad

Greg - 1-25-2005 at 05:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by egypt omar
.... but does anyone know how the tuning of the "5 strings" should go? Omar


Hi Omar,

From low to high G AA DD gg cc
or F AA DD gg cc

I hope you get a lot of enjoyment from your new oud.

Regards,

Greg

thanks again

egypt omar - 1-26-2005 at 10:14 AM

thanks for the advice greg! I'm gonna get that sucker tuned as soon as i get home from work. IT really does sound very good, i'll have to get some photos and sound clips of it once i get my camera back from my brother..
cheers all!
Omar

Mike - 1-26-2005 at 11:10 AM

Hey Omar,

Congrats on the new oud. For some reason, that's how most oud stores string up ouds in Egypt. If the nut has more grooves & your bridge has enough holes, then you should be able to get 11 strings on it. If that's the case, get some Aquila strings and string that bad boy up. Looking forward to seeing and hearing your oud.

Take care,
Mike

strings

egypt omar - 1-26-2005 at 11:23 AM

Is it consensus that the Aquila strings are the best ones to get while here in the US? I'm already in the process of ordering them, and yes the Oud has grooves and pegs for the 2 additional strings.. I cant wait to hear how it sounds with some 'non-egyptian' strings on it !
Omar

curiosity

egypt omar - 1-26-2005 at 11:25 AM

Just out of curiosity, what kind of Oud does Nasir Shamma use? Is that an Egyptian Oud by a particular maker? I know he's Iraqi, but he spends most of his time in Egypt apparently training others. I am just amazed at his skill!
Omar

Ronny Andersson - 1-26-2005 at 01:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by egypt omar
Just out of curiosity, what kind of Oud does Nasir Shamma use? Is that an Egyptian Oud by a particular maker? I know he's Iraqi, but he spends most of his time in Egypt apparently training others. I am just amazed at his skill!
Omar


His Bashir oud is built by Yaroub Fadel and he has also one 8 course oud built by Fawzy Monshed. I've heard that a particular Egyptian maker is copying the bashir by Monshed.

walkad - 1-27-2005 at 03:52 AM

Personally I would consider it a waist to put high quality strings that cost more than 30$ on an oud worth 50$. I am not sure that you will get value for your money.
Cheap ouds can sound good, but that a relative thing, of course they would sound better with high quality strings but still doesnt justify the price you pay.
I dont know on what level you play, but if you are a beginner and have a cheap oud, use cheap strings, and when you get better you will wanna upgrade.

understood

egypt omar - 1-28-2005 at 08:39 AM

Well, the thing is, the Oud came really with only "5 strings", the top one being solo string. I am a guitar player typically but I do intend on making Oud my new instrument of choice. Buying the new strings would allow me to explore the full range of sounds. I realize $50 doesnt sound like very much, but in Egypt that is 300 L.E. , or 1 month salary for an average Egyptian. It doesnt look like a toy and it sounds real nice. Of course it wont sound as good as your $500 Oud, but believe me for what I paid, you'd be astonished how beautiful the sounds that come out of it are.. I think the new strings will def. be worth it. Of course this is my beginner Oud, and eventually I'll buy a more professional one, but for what it is,,, it rocks! Once I get my camera back i'll be showing some pics.
peace all.
Omar:airguitar:

Zulkarnain - 1-28-2005 at 09:03 AM

Maybe on your next trip to Cairo you can get the Oud at Khan el Khalili - they sell it at $30 max ($25 if you lucky enough to bargain) Save you a lot and the look also amazingly awesome! Then you can order custom Pyramid Laute strings set or Aquila and try it on the Oud - it will make a lot of different!

Greg - 1-28-2005 at 09:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by egypt omar I realize $50 doesnt sound like very much, but in Egypt that is 300 L.E. , or 1 month salary for an average Egyptian. It doesnt look like a toy and it sounds real nice. Of course it wont sound as good as your $500 Oud, but believe me for what I paid, you'd be astonished how beautiful the sounds that come out of it are ....
peace all.
Omar


Omar,

I believe you make a very good point about the relative value of US$50 in Egypt. Please don't be "put off" by uncharitable remarks. If the oud sounds good and you enjoy playing it, the modest amount you paid for it is of no consequence. I look forward to hearing and seeeing photos of your instrument.

Regards,

Greg

walkad - 1-29-2005 at 02:57 AM

Greg, I suggest that you read my post again. I didnt mean to discourage Omar in any way.

I've been in egypt and I know that for 50$ you get an ok beginner oud, but as Omar said nothing near a 500$ oud.
I am sure that Omar doesnt need top quality strings for enjoying his oud.
I would recomend cheaper brands like daddario or Wyres, but if it makes you feel better with aquila and money is no issue, then why shouldnt you do it.
Saying that, i guess some member will now acuse me for putting you off.

Greg - 1-29-2005 at 04:40 AM

Walid,

Sorry if I offended you, but my "uncharitable remarks" comment was not referring to your post or to your suggestions about strings. I don't believe your comments were uncharitable in any way. I agree entirely with the suggestions that you made to Omar.

I currently use Pyramid lute strings on my Ghadban oud and Savarez on my Nahat. I intend to try Aquilla on my next string change. But, as you suggest, a cheaper set of strings may well be adequate for Omar's beginners' instrument. Incidently, I don't think Aquilla strings are that expensive anyway, considering their reputed quality.

Regards,

Greg

Elie Riachi - 1-29-2005 at 09:23 AM

Here is my take on things. Buy the best that is worth what you can afford, be it a screwdriver an oud or strings. Cheap strings do not last as long and most are not the right tension. Buying good strings will give more milage for the same amount spent in the long run and may improve the sound. I would string the oud with the cheapest if I do not intened to playa and just want to hang on the wall for display.

walkad - 1-30-2005 at 10:18 AM

Quote:

Cheap strings do not last as long and most are not the right tension. Buying good strings will give more milage for the same amount spent in the long run and may improve the sound.


Mr Riachi, it's surprises me that you are saying this, because it's very wrong.. I would say that quality strings doesnt last as long as the less quality ones, that's in general case. Usually, quality strings are thinner or are of softer nylon material, they sound greate but doesnt last as long. Compare pyramids cheapest oud strings with the pyramids lute strings set (that Shamma, Munir Bashir uses) and check witch ones lasts the longest time, thats one example. You can also take Savarez highest quality oud strings and compare them to daddario. By the way that applies to classical guitar strings to, compare high quality strings for classical guitar with lesser quality and you can draw the same conclusion.

Elie Riachi - 1-30-2005 at 11:18 AM

Mr. Walkad,
It is my understanding that it is desirable to have very low tension on the lute such a condition dictates that the strings be finer and less dense. There is a scientific law which explains the codependence of the frequency, scale length, tension and density of a single string. If you search the forums you'll find where I stated the law in mathematical form.

As far as the high cost of Lute strings, it is due to the low demand for them in such a less commonly played instrument and the fact that a lute string manufacturer has to supply many choices of strings to accomidate the many sizes and styles of lutes and a wide spectrum of tensions. I would say the oud is much more commonly played than the lute... don't you agree? Also there are less variations in ouds compared to lutes. The main reason oud players choose Pyramid lute strings, is not for their high quality but for the wider selection available regarding the tensions. Any time you request a custom set the price almost doubles from the precofigured set but same quality strings.

By the way the Nylgut strings are denser than the nylon strings and are slightly more expensive so that contradicts your theory of finer strings being more expensive and of higher quality.

You can also purchase from Pyramid carbon fiber strings, expensive and very strong, high quality "I assume" and last longer.

Also the windings on low quality wound strings will break in a short period of time. Trying out the "3 Pyramids brand," low quality strings I would say, mine broke in the process of stringing and I am not a beginner when it comes to stringing an oud or a guitar.

As you can tell, we have opposing views on this issue but we can still be oud buddies I hope.

Moreover

Elie Riachi - 1-30-2005 at 12:18 PM

I would like to also add that the lute is played without a plectrum so lute strings may have a shoreter life when plucked with a plectrum as the case would be with the oud.

A good advice to Omar would be to experiment with sevral sets to determine which gives you the best sound and action on this oud and eventualy may want to upgrade to higher quality oud. Although I disagree with the approach of learning on an inferior oud. I think one needs all the help they can get starting out therefore should start out with the best they can afford.

samzayed - 1-30-2005 at 01:15 PM

I've used both Pyramid lute strings and their packages sets, I didn't see a difference in how long they lasted generally speaking. However, I did use a wound string for the g and it broke after 3 months. This was very thin wound string, and it broke at the bridge

Ronny Andersson - 1-30-2005 at 01:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Elie Riachi
I would like to also add that the lute is played without a plectrum so lute strings may have a shoreter life when plucked with a plectrum as the case would be with the oud.

it is also due to the left hand technique on the oud that some player have like myself. I stop the string occasionally with the nails.

Elie Riachi - 1-30-2005 at 01:58 PM

Sam, the low quality brand I mentioned is "Three Pyramids" and not "Pyramid" brand. Almost all the wound strings broke not only at the bridge, but also at a couple of places in the middle almost where plucked and over the finger board and if I recall one of them the windings broke at the neck-bowl joint. Anyway there is more to quality strings than longevity. However, it has been my experience that low quality strings in general are short lived.

I very much like the warm tones of copper windings though. I wish that it is an option from Aquila.

Ronny Andersson - 1-30-2005 at 02:04 PM

>You can also purchase from Pyramid carbon >fiber strings, expensive and very strong, high >quality "I assume" and last longer.

I use them on my Bashir ouds and the lifespan is about the same as plain nylon, nylon rectified by Pyramid. I prefer them thought for the sound.

Elie Riachi - 1-30-2005 at 03:07 PM

Here is an interesting article about choosing strings. It talks about classical guitar strings but I think it can be generalized for the oud also. http://www.classicalguitarbuilder.com/march_news/October_Newsletter...

walkad - 2-2-2005 at 10:57 AM

Quote:

It is my understanding that it is desirable to have very low tension on the lute such a condition dictates that the strings be finer and less dense. There is a scientific law which explains the codependence of the frequency, scale length, tension and density of a single string. If you search the forums you'll find where I stated the law in mathematical form.


The effect of the tension on how long strings can last is neglectible in this case.
If you have thinner strings, less tension wouldnt make a big difference.
Quote:

The main reason oud players choose Pyramid lute strings, is not for their high quality but for the wider selection available regarding the tensions. Any time you request a custom set the price almost doubles from the precofigured set but same quality strings.


Well Munir Bashir achieved greate sound with pyramid lute strings, doesnt that testify for quality?
Quote:

You can also purchase from Pyramid carbon fiber strings, expensive and very strong, high quality "I assume" and last longer.


Expensive? yes. Very strong and last longer? No. They sound greate though.
Quote:

Also the windings on low quality wound strings will break in a short period of time. Trying out the "3 Pyramids brand," low quality strings I would say, mine broke in the process of stringing and I am not a beginner when it comes to stringing an oud or a guitar.

It happened once to me with a low price set from iraq, but the set was so cheap (4$) I think I could live with it. I dont think that would happend with for example d'Addarios set.
Quote:

I would like to also add that the lute is played without a plectrum so lute strings may have a shoreter life when plucked with a plectrum as the case would be with the oud.


That depends on what kinda risha you use and your play style, if you use very hard rishas maybe. But most of us will wear the strings on the area the left hand fingers move.
Quote:

As you can tell, we have opposing views on this issue but we can still be oud buddies I hope.

Ofcourse we are oud buddies, who wants a buddie that always agrees with you?;)
That's one thing I've been missing in this forum, everybody have the same opinion on everything.

Elie Riachi - 2-2-2005 at 04:47 PM

One has to be carefull about the D'Adderio oud string sets. All of the ones I have seen out there are not of suitable gages (according to published data by the manufacturer) for Arabic tuning, even though they are stamped Arabic. I think they may be for Armenian tuning. But in general I think D'Adderio strings are Okay but maybe not suitable for Arabic tuning on Arabic ouds of common scale length. Also D'Addario sells different grades in quality of strings.

Later,
Elie

Ronny Andersson - 2-3-2005 at 01:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Elie Riachi
One has to be carefull about the D'Adderio oud string sets. All of the ones I have seen out there are not of suitable gages (according to published data by the manufacturer) for Arabic tuning, even though they are stamped Arabic. I think they may be for Armenian tuning. But in general I think D'Adderio strings are Okay but maybe not suitable for Arabic tuning on Arabic ouds of common scale length. Also D'Addario sells different grades in quality of strings.

Later,
Elie


Hi Elie, I'm also very skeptical about d'Addario strings for Arabic oud. The tension seems to be far to high for any classic oud. They works fine on Bashir oud and also with 57cm string lenght.

strings

egypt omar - 2-4-2005 at 09:50 AM

The strings I chose to buy were the A'quila, they were only $20. If I had known where in Egypt to buy a much better Oud, I would have, I just didnt have the knowledge that I gained from mike's awesome site. But I'm gonna string her up, and see how it sounds. I know $50 seems like a cheap khan al khalili (for those of you who know egypt) ouds,, it def, is not! It is from muhammed ali street near Ramses sq. This a place at least known in egypt to be a place where to buy instruments affordable for average egyptians. (an average egyptian will not spend 3000 L.E. on a musical instrument). So i went there, and will have pictures of it shortly , hopefully with new strings :) :applause:

Elie Riachi - 2-4-2005 at 03:04 PM

You made a good choice for the strings. I hope you'll like the sound of your oud when you string him up. Post some audio too and let us know how you like the sound and all.