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Speed and Upstrokes

mysticoud - 3-7-2005 at 09:41 PM

How does one go about gaining risha speed? I mean like the incredible speed that Simon Shaheen and Naseer Shamma has (just to name a few). Is it just scale studies and practice?
Also, I feel very hindered by upstrokes and "inside picking". They feel very weak and I often miss at higher speeds. Is this a common weakness for beginning/intermediate oud players?
If anybody has any tips or Studies, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanx.

Jameel - 3-8-2005 at 06:07 AM

I had the same problem until I had a lesson with Simon Shaheen. He showed me a technique that fixes it. Read the last few posts in this thread to read about what he taught me. If there is enough interest here, I can post a video of it. I have been using this technique, and it really has improved my playing even though I don't practice as much as I should.

mysticoud - 3-8-2005 at 12:01 PM

Thanks Jameel, that's exactly what I was looking for.

Greg - 3-8-2005 at 06:17 PM

Thanks Jameel and Brian for those two really enlightening posts. I had not seen them previously. It is exactly what I need to improve my upstrokes.

Regards,

Greg

souhail - 3-9-2005 at 07:53 AM

many thanks jameel for the information and for sharing it. man you are lucky to have Simone as a teacher. i'm learning oud now for more than 3 years and no teacher told me about this method

.
anyway it will be great if you can post a video illustration of what you explained.
Best regards and many thanks again.

Delucia - 3-9-2005 at 11:29 AM

video video please... save our souls

even simpler...

eliot - 3-9-2005 at 02:50 PM

I start my personal practices with 10 minutes of up and down strokes on one note. I don't use open strings for this, but rather some fingered note, a different one every day.

5 minutes of up and down strokes, one stroke per second.

5 minutes of up and down strokes, one pair of up and down per second (two notes per second).

the entire time, I close my eyes and listen for the sound of each note. Can I tell the difference between the up and down strokes? Can I get to a point when I can't tell the difference anymore? How long can I maintain this state?

After a point of doing this daily (one month, two months... depends on your personal discipline), tremolo automatically comes. Without ever having practiced fast picking as an exercise.

Quick string crossings present their own challenges - Simon's exercise addresses that. But my feeling is - if you can't even get one note sounding consistently good, why worry about all the other ones?

Jameel - 3-10-2005 at 04:51 PM

Eliot has a great practice regimen there. I played violin for 10+ years before oud, and I can tell you that nothing improves technique like excercises. During my 'ud lesson with Simon Shaheen he mentioned that before performances he plays through the repertoire VERY slowly. Since a few people asked for the video, I took some time today and encoded it. These are excerpts from an oud lesson I had (it was actually a group lesson w/ two guys besides me) with Simon Shaheen about a year ago. The first part is the excercise in question. The rest is mainly about maqamat and taqasim. Can you imagne learning from Simon full time? I think it would be incredible, but also very demanding. This will only be available for a few days since I don't have much space on my server, so get it while it's hot!

'Ud Lesson

TruePharaoh21 - 3-10-2005 at 06:01 PM

Hey Jameel. Thanks so much for this great video. Simon is truly talented, and must be a blessing to have as a teacher. My favorite part is right around 8:30. He's a comedian, this oud player.

It seems as though Mr. Shaheen likes to teach at a considerable speed, and expects a lot from his students as well. In my opinion, this is good because it forces the student to keep on their toes when they're not with Mr. Shaheen, and so they can keep up the next time around. Granted, I haven't seen the rest of the lesson, and I don't know how far along he was in teaching all 3 of you when you got to that point. Do you sense that he's a bit fast in his teaching? I never had an oud teacher, so I don't know what the speed of teaching usually is. Regardless, I think the fact that the lesson was taped must help tremendously.

Thanks again!

TP21

Elie Riachi - 3-10-2005 at 06:39 PM

Many thanks for the video Jameel. Simon seems to have good sense of humor. His playing is so fast, precise, smooth and clean. Enjoyed the lessons and the music.

revaldo29 - 3-10-2005 at 07:44 PM

Jameel, you are the man. This video is really helpful. I wish someone would pickup this idea of online oud lessons or even make a series of oud videos in english to ease the learning process. This video accomplishes in 15 minutes what would usually take months for me to learn on my own. Thanx again Jameel.

Jameel - 3-10-2005 at 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TruePharaoh21
Hey Jameel. Thanks so much for this great video. Simon is truly talented, and must be a blessing to have as a teacher. My favorite part is right around 8:30. He's a comedian, this oud player.

It seems as though Mr. Shaheen likes to teach at a considerable speed, and expects a lot from his students as well. In my opinion, this is good because it forces the student to keep on their toes when they're not with Mr. Shaheen, and so they can keep up the next time around. Granted, I haven't seen the rest of the lesson, and I don't know how far along he was in teaching all 3 of you when you got to that point. Do you sense that he's a bit fast in his teaching? I never had an oud teacher, so I don't know what the speed of teaching usually is. Regardless, I think the fact that the lesson was taped must help tremendously.

Thanks again!

TP21

Yeah, that's a funny part. By the way, that wasn't me asking the question. I don't know who this guy was ( I never met them before), but he'd been to the Arabic Music Retreat, and he was asking simple questions like why is the dominant of Rast the 5th note? I guess he must have forgotten his notepad. I tell you, if I ever got to attend the retreat, I'd be recording every second. I should clarify a bit about this lesson. Simon was in town for a benefit concert, and Tim O'Keefe (a retreater and incredible percussionist and oud player from MN) was kind of enough to organize a day of lessons with Simon for those who wanted to participate. I was lucky enough to be in town for the day, so I took advantage. It was a group lesson. You would have to ask Brian Prunka about Simon's teaching style, he would know better than me. I've only had this one lesson. These other two guys were rank beginners, so I started off by asking about how to improve rishi technique. They didn't even know how to play a half flat/sharp (including the guy who spent a week at the retreat!) so I think that's why Simon went into some maqam theory. I'll just say that it was a fantastic hour. His pace was good for me. I'm no expert in maqamat, but the ajnas and dominants have pretty much exact parallels in Byzantine music, which I am familiar with. Plus, like you I grew up listening to this music at home, so it's pretty much in there anyway, I just have to teach my fat lazy fingers to play it!

souhail - 3-10-2005 at 08:50 PM

many thanks Jameel :applause:

Mike - 3-10-2005 at 11:33 PM

Hey Jameelo,

What can I say my man. That was great! Simon is the man.
Whatdya think, let's make March Simon Shaheen month! :xtreme:

I love that guy!!!

Thanks bud,
Mike

Jameel - 3-11-2005 at 05:30 AM

You are all very welcome. I'm glad that others are getting some value from it. It just goes to show that having a teacher is the only way to go, imo. I learn so much everytime I see my teacher, I can't imagine how I would progress if I saw him more than a couple times per year.

Mike, Simon IS the man. He plays so effortlessly, he's at that place where none of his energy or thought is occupied with technique, but only expression and creativity. Can you imagine being able to play whatever you want on the oud with the same ease as which you would write or speak?

elrabee3 - 3-11-2005 at 06:32 AM

thanks alot Jameel. i saved this thread in my PC so when i will start playing oud, i will use it as a refrence.
u r so lucky to be that good in oud, and to have an oud teacher like Simon. :applause:

mavrothis - 3-11-2005 at 04:19 PM

Hey Jameel,

Thanks so much for sharing your great experience with Simon Shaheen. I really appreciate the opportunity to peek into his teaching and playing style.

Thanks so much!!

Take care,

mav

Delucia - 3-12-2005 at 12:34 PM

Thank you Jameel.. you're the man and I'm so graetful to you. This lesson is a great one and I learned so many things from it. I hope that you can post more whenever you can.

Thanks a bunch

simon shaheen

chaldo - 3-12-2005 at 01:21 PM

thank you so much, this is so nice. We are learning so much.

Once more proven that Shimon shaheen is really a great player and teacher -- Fannan 9 M3alem.

Alan - 3-12-2005 at 03:34 PM

Thanks Jameel. It must have been awesome to sit in with Simon for a lesson. The video was a treat and a way to pass on some important tips for those of us without teachers. Really appreciate it.
Regards,
Alan

eliot - 3-12-2005 at 10:32 PM

Jameel, if web disk space and bandwidth is a problem I could host this for you on my server so people can enjoy the clip in the future. Just let me know if this is of interest.

Jameel - 3-13-2005 at 03:16 PM

Thanks fellas. It's my pleasure to share. Simon isn't my teacher though, I just had this one lesson with him.

habeebkum - 3-16-2005 at 12:41 PM

jameel, that was extremely helpful and u have helped me alot with your posts. if anybody else has any more recorded lessons that would save so many players alot of time learning!!!i have improved so much only because of this site and the inspiration i get from these forums!THANK YOU ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hakeem.ram - 12-14-2005 at 02:59 AM

Hi Jameel!

I guess I saw this post kinda late. Can I get the video too?? It doesn't seem to work.

Peace!

Jameel - 12-14-2005 at 06:21 AM

Does anyone have this saved for hakeem.ram? I don't have it on my hard drive anymore.

peppeo77 - 12-14-2005 at 09:08 AM

I miss this video also. Any chance to get it from some of yours, guys?
regards, Giuseppe.

SamirCanada - 12-14-2005 at 09:49 AM

I got the udlesson video yah. Enjoy!

http://rapidshare.de/files/9169408/udlesson.wmv.html

Unfortunelty I didnt get to save the one where simon is playing your first oud.

hakeem.ram - 12-14-2005 at 12:09 PM

BArek allah Feek!! that clip sure is really good! Lots of experience for me to gain from that!

peppeo77 - 12-14-2005 at 12:10 PM

Shukran Samir!
I'm having a look right now...
Salamat,
Ciao, Peppeo

palestine48 - 12-14-2005 at 10:15 PM

i have it, how do i send it? it says 16,500 kb, does that mean 16 mb. I can email it from gmail but if anyone has a faster option let me know because i dont have a server site.

video

jshead - 12-15-2005 at 02:59 AM

HI, Jamil,
I tried to get the video but it didn't work.
Is it possible to still get it?
Thanks very much

SamirCanada - 12-15-2005 at 08:09 AM

Guys I just posted the link to download like 5 posts above.

Mascun - 2-18-2006 at 06:45 AM

When I clicked on the link, I was told the ud lesson had been deleted because of too few downloads. So where can one find videos like these ? I'm a lonely oud player in Southwest France, with no one to share with or show me

Alan

comthre3 - 6-5-2008 at 07:17 PM

Can someone please send me that oud lesson, i cant seem to find it anywhere, comthre3@gmail.com

Thanks

Ararat66 - 6-5-2008 at 11:48 PM

I can't upload this either - it was obviously time limited but I'd love to see it.

Cheers

Leon

francis - 6-6-2008 at 11:36 AM

I'd would be happy to see this lesson also.
Thanks
Francis

Amer - 6-7-2008 at 07:23 AM

Can someone please re-upload the movie ?

comthre3 - 6-8-2008 at 06:19 PM

anyone? I've tried Jameels way, it seems to be working, i dont know if im doing it right tho, cuz i feel that my pinky on the face of the oud is slowing my playing down, i guess im just doing the exercise wrong

JAMEEL SAMEER ANYBODY!

help us out here~!

comthre3 - 6-12-2008 at 10:30 AM

Looks like no one has it

Oudini - 2-11-2009 at 10:58 AM

can some1 pls upload the video or put it on 4shared.
thanks

mercm525i - 9-15-2014 at 06:13 AM

Does anyone have this video anymore please? I would greatly appreciate it if someone could post the video one more time and I will try to host it.
Thanks everyone!

Lysander - 9-15-2014 at 09:58 AM

It seems to be on this page:

http://www.sama3y.net/forum/showthread.php?p=310747

Hopefully the file is still there. But we would need a member or someone who speaks Arabic to register there.

mercm525i - 9-15-2014 at 10:46 AM

Thanks Lysander, but I registered but it's not letting me download the file for some reason. Does anyone else have this oud lesson to share please?

abc123xyz - 9-15-2014 at 09:09 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mercm525i

Thanks Lysander, but I registered but it's not letting me download the file for some reason.

Registration isn't complete until after they send you an activation link. Have you been sent the link yet?

I registered at Sama3y today too, but have yet to be sent the activation link. They may not have automated the procedure, so it might take awhile.

David

mercm525i - 9-16-2014 at 05:57 AM

I have already activated the account but I'm getting a message in arabic that says "Your account has been activated, but you must wait for the approval of the administrator"

alim - 9-16-2014 at 08:39 PM

Are you referring to this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN0e1WhJjJA

Ali-

mercm525i - 9-17-2014 at 05:15 AM

You know Ali, I did see the video before on youtube and wondered if it was the same one. Reading the thread over again and the comments, I think it is the same video (as I may have speculated earlier). Thank you!

rojaros - 9-29-2014 at 02:34 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Jameel

I had the same problem until I had a lesson with Simon Shaheen. He showed me a technique that fixes it. Read the last few posts in this thread to read about what he taught me. If there is enough interest here, I can post a video of it. I have been using this technique, and it really has improved my playing even though I don't practice as much as I should.

I'm sure there is enough interest. Please put up a video!

alim - 9-30-2014 at 08:10 AM

I believe the video is the one I posted three messages back. The practice technique is to plant the pinky of the right hand on the Oud face in such a way as to limit excessive motion and place the risha + hand in the correct position. See the beginning of the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN0e1WhJjJA

Ali-