Mike's Oud Forums

The COBZA

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oud_laud_luth_lute_liuto - 6-23-2005 at 12:54 PM

"The cobza is a Romanian folk version of the Oud, the lute found across the Islamic world from North Africa to Central Asia. The word is Turkish; "kobuz" is the more common form of it in Turkic languages, but it can be applied to many different lute-type instruments."

MORE INFO:
http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/Music/cobza.html

LISTEN:
http://www.balcanto.net/www/sound/marin.mp3


;)

Cobza

oud_laud_luth_lute_liuto - 6-23-2005 at 12:58 PM

Koya - 6-24-2005 at 04:29 AM

Hi, I am hungarian cobza player. We also use cobza ( in hungarian: koboz) in folk music. The moldavian hungarians preserve in their traditional music.

Koya - 6-24-2005 at 04:32 AM

The previous picture is my teacher. Géza Fábri the master of koboz.:bowdown:

oud_laud_luth_lute_liuto - 6-24-2005 at 04:39 AM

hi Koya,

do you have some files mp3 about the cobza?



Claudio

oudplayer - 6-24-2005 at 10:24 AM

hey all
this is acually raelly funny bec a long time ago i p-layed one but i had no clue what it was sounds somewhat lieka th eoud.
thx sammy

Koya - 6-25-2005 at 01:18 AM

Hi Folks,
There is some sound clips with cobza, sorry for quality. I made this recordings with MD in Moldavian folk music and dance camp in 2002.
The following files when the cobza accompanied in band. Generally flute, violin , drum (tapan) play together.
Paun Vasile on cobza.

Koya - 6-25-2005 at 01:40 AM

Sorry it was too large file.

:airguitar:

http://www.somoska.wire.hu/tracks/tuz_langja.mp3

http://www.somoska.wire.hu/tracks/vert_kezes.mp3

http://www.somoska.wire.hu/tracks/szerba.mp3

http://www.somoska.wire.hu/tracks/track_no05.mp3

http://www.somoska.wire.hu/tracks/track_no08.mp3

:bounce:

Bye: Koya

Koya - 6-25-2005 at 01:42 AM

The cobza player:

shlomi - 6-25-2005 at 01:46 AM

hey koya it sounds grate!!!!
do u have any solo recordings of ur playing?

Koya - 6-25-2005 at 01:53 AM

The next track is singing with cobza.
The player is Szabolcs Róka.

http://www.somoska.wire.hu/tracks/hej_pava.mp3

http://www.somoska.wire.hu/tracks/en_is_en_is_csak_ugy_elek.mp3

http://www.somoska.wire.hu/tracks/koldusenek.mp3

bye: Koya

oud_laud_luth_lute_liuto - 6-25-2005 at 03:06 AM

hey Mr Koya...THANKSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS :xtreme:


:)

Koya - 6-27-2005 at 04:56 AM

Hi,
This is a picture about an romanian player.

spyros mesogeia - 6-27-2005 at 08:16 AM

Buna domnilor,
am facut studiile mele in Romania,am terminat facultatea de medicina,am cantat si eu copza,si as vrea sa va intreb pentru preturi de asa ceva

Dear Mr Koya,do you speak Romanian?I did my studies in Temesvar,on the univercity of Medicine ,and there I had the posibility to hear and play this instrument,
Can you please send me your e-mail adress,I would like to ask you some things in personal.I am a fan of Tudor Gheorghe in Romania,he is a copza player.

Best Regards

Spyros Koliavasilis

Koya - 6-27-2005 at 10:58 PM

Dear Spyros,

My e-mail adress is: robertkrisztin@aion.hu
I am living inside Hungary, I don't speak romanian.
Tudor Gheorghe is a big favorite of mine.
Bye: Koya

adamgood - 6-27-2005 at 11:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Koya
Hi, I am hungarian cobza player. We also use cobza ( in hungarian: koboz) in folk music. The moldavian hungarians preserve in their traditional music.


Hi Koya and others,
Wow you and others posted some great recordings.

the tracks that look like this:
http://www.somoska.wire.hu/tracks/tuz_langja.mp3
http://www.somoska.wire.hu/tracks/vert_kezes.mp3
http://www.somoska.wire.hu/tracks/szerba.mp3
http://www.somoska.wire.hu/tracks/track_no05.mp3
http://www.somoska.wire.hu/tracks/track_no08.mp3

where are these musicians from? is it Transylvania? it's sounding very hungarian in style but I was surprised to hear the last track is like Geamparele rhythm.

also can you tell us the differences between the Romanian Kobza, the Hungarian Koboz and whatever it is they may use in Moldavia?

i'm so curious, and happy you introduced this stuff. I've always wanted to hear more.

best,
Adam

Koya - 6-28-2005 at 01:42 AM

The Moldavian Hungarians are hungarian speakig majority in the East Carpatians in Romania. Their linguistic culture and vocal music affinity are of medieval hungarian culture, their dialect is similar with the hungarian of 200 years ago. Their instrumental music, clothing are more balkanistic because the fasion is always changing and a modern infuence from Romanians who are they living with is stronger like their hungarian roots.

Koya - 6-28-2005 at 03:07 AM

Hi,
More pics:

Koya - 6-28-2005 at 03:10 AM

This is the electric type of cobza::cool:

Koya - 6-28-2005 at 10:57 AM

Hi folks,

Some mp3 from the Zurgo band.

http://www.zurgo.hu/english.html

http://www.zurgo.hu/NewPic/ZurgoSzive_track1.mp3

http://www.zurgo.hu/NewPic/ZurgoSzive_track6.mp3

http://www.zurgo.hu/MP3/vonat.mp3

http://www.zurgo.hu/MP3/olahos.mp3

http://www.zurgo.hu/MP3/szeretom.mp3

Bye: Koya

Koya - 6-29-2005 at 10:54 PM

Hi all,

This is a beautiful song from my teacer's new CD.
Tünde Ivánovics - singer
Géza Fábri - cobza

http://www.moldvahon.hu/mediafile.php?mediafileID=76

This is pure hungarian style of cobza playing.

Bye: Koya

Koya - 9-8-2005 at 08:15 PM

Hi guys,
This is a new pic about a old style cobza player. He is living in Moldva in Romania. He played in last music and dane camp in this august.

Greg - 9-8-2005 at 09:08 PM

Thanks Koya.

Do you know where I could get one of those mike stands, where no section is truly vertical or horizontal? :D

Regards,

Greg

adamgood - 9-8-2005 at 09:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Koya
Hi guys,
This is a new pic about a old style cobza player. He is living in Moldva in Romania. He played in last music and dane camp in this august.


Was your minidisc running?? on record??

:))

adam

kasos - 9-9-2005 at 09:17 AM

Hi, thanks for reviving this thread, much of which I didn't catch the first time around. I'm completely enjoying the music on it, especially the song accompanied by Geza Fabri. I'm amazed at how moving it is....Can someone tell me what the lyrics are about?

Mark

John Erlich - 9-9-2005 at 09:38 AM

Do they play the kobza at all in Greece? I saw one hanging on the wall in a bar/restaurant in Veria (AKA "Bereoa") in Macedonia. I wondered what the heck it was and took a photo. And to think: I'm 1/4 Hungarian on both sides of my family and knew nothing about it until today!

Yassas,
Udi John

Koya - 9-11-2005 at 09:39 PM

Hi folks,
John, could you share with us your photo?

In this year I wasn`t the moldavian music camp.
I took the picture about the web site of Moldavian musicans.

http://www.moldvahon.hu/newslist.php?categoryID=10

My friends recorded some music. It will be in that site soon.
I `ll write here the link.

Bye: Koya

John Erlich - 9-12-2005 at 03:33 PM

I'll try to find the photo, but I would have to scan it first. (Did not have a digital camera at the time).

Best,
Udi John

New CD with solo cobza

Koya - 9-20-2005 at 03:02 AM

Hi folks,

I would like recommend a new solo cobza material.

http://www.etnofon.hu/Ivanovics_Fabri_ang.htm


Tünde Ivánovics – Géza Fábri

Save as...

'Csángó' – Hungarian folk songs from Moldva resung

Folk music, the authentic folk song emerges from within them, comes to life, and they support it’s viability with great anxiety. They draw from the spring of Moldva - from the music of Külsőrekecsin, Klézse, Trunk, Gyoszény, Lujzikalagor and Pusztina – while they feel obliged to add to this stream.

They search for the natural joins of the melodies, to let them soar even against the current.

The master of the lute playfully presents the duality of his instrument, it’s melodious and accompanying role. He thus opens up an entire gallery of tools used by lute players during the course of musical production.

They declare that this seed will always shoot new buds, for it bursts out of nature’s minimalistic principles, just as the masterpiece of the melody, the birth of which will hold mysteries one can perhaps never unravel.

They aim to save a very sincere world as it’s renewal. Thier songs and lute-music speak of a passing world, depicting the Eden of Moldva in virtuosity of ornaments, but symultaneously giving a confession about their own inner selves. Thus, they resound our Hungarian csángó songs from Moldva, and the unique harmony of their music recalls the past by projecitng it into the future.

Order info:

http://www.etnofon.hu/start.html

kasos - 9-20-2005 at 07:10 AM

Thanks, Koya, for sharing the latest from this group. Geza Fabri is a marvel, and he and the female lead singer (Tunde Ivanovics, I think?) have a wonderful way with ballads, particularly.

I'm still hoping there might be some way to get some tidbits in English about the texts to the songs, particularly the one you posted (with Geza Fabri) on the first page of this thread. I find myself fairly welling up with emotion when I hear it, and would like to satisfy my curiosity by finding out what it is I'm getting worked up about....

I know that text is theoretically a big part of the impact of any song, but in some cultures this is perhaps more so than others (who really listens to the lyrics in North American pop tunes, anyway?). I've come to appreciate that Greek songs are very text orientated, and I'm going to guess that these might be also, being from somewhat the same part of the world. Please don't knock yourself out, even a little bit of the subject matter, or a characteristic line or two would be great. I'm a bit of a song writer, and cut my teeth on Quebec (French) folk music, where they also tend to care rather deeply about these things.... Ironically, the Quebecois, like the Moldavian Hungarians, also got isolated early on from the mother country, and their music harkens back to the homeland's musical styles of several centuries ago.

Thanks, Mark

SamirCanada - 9-20-2005 at 11:23 AM

L'arbre est dans ses feuilles marilons marilé.. L'arbre est dans ses feuilles marillon don dé. hehehe
Do you know this Québecois song? I lived in montreal all my life and I can definetly relate to what your saying.
Au plaisir
SAmir

kasos - 9-20-2005 at 01:44 PM

I certainly do recognize it - it's a must when I bring out the accordion at Festival time.... Take care, Mark

Koya - 11-11-2005 at 07:04 AM

Cobsa course:
Master course of Geza Fabri
9-10-11 November 2005.
Hungary- Szeged

more info: jelesnapok@wire.hu

kritikokasiotis - 11-14-2005 at 05:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Koya
This is the electric type of cobza::cool:

Ooh nice very nice:D

billkilpatrick - 11-16-2005 at 01:37 AM

what a stunning thread! thank you so much for posting those beautiful, absolutely hair-raising mp3's.

on some of the cobzas i've seen there's a triangular piece of the sound board missing, near where the neck and fingerboard connects to the bowl, on the upper side. could you please explain why this is?

many, many thanks - bill

Koya - 11-16-2005 at 04:47 AM

Hello!
I heard that this hole has no function, people who lives the music put in some money....
Bye.
Koya

Koya - 1-9-2006 at 12:50 AM

Hello,
A picute from Hungary from '60-s. Hungarian cobza player who moved from Moldva (Romania).
Bye.

How

sydney - 1-9-2006 at 02:33 AM

Hi Koya :wavey:

Thanks for sharing all these lovely info man.

I am wondering how many strings in the Cobza? Are they doubled? how do you tune it? Do you use rish for it - if yes ... what does it look like?
Where do you get strings for it?

Many questions I know ... :D

Thanks

Koya - 1-9-2006 at 05:57 AM

Hi Sydney,
We will meet in Sydney soon, I will show you my instrument.


I know about 4 tunings. I have 2 cobzas I am using AEAD tuning when I am accompaining violin and flute. The higher
C-G-C-F is very good for accompain women sing.

D-G-D-A
A-E-A-D
E-A-D-G (like an bass guitar)
C-G-C-F

Wow

sydney - 1-9-2006 at 06:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Koya
Hi Sydney,
We will meet in Sydney soon, I will show you my instrument.


I know about 4 tunings. I have 2 cobzas I am using AEAD tuning when I am accompaining violin and flute. The higher
C-G-C-F is very good for accompain women sing.

D-G-D-A
A-E-A-D
E-A-D-G (like an bass guitar)
C-G-C-F


That is very interesting. I can not wait to meet you Koya.

Take care

Koya - 4-27-2006 at 10:26 AM

Hi folks,
Living folk music with cobza. Some pictures ...
2005 augustus Moldva (Romania)

Moldavian folk music

Koya - 4-27-2006 at 10:32 AM

2005.

Moldva Somoska 2005

Koya - 4-27-2006 at 10:34 AM

2005

Moldavian folk

Koya - 4-27-2006 at 10:44 AM

http://www.moldvahon.hu/files/49/386/aurel_01_sereny_magyaros.mp3

Bolya Matyi

Koya - 4-27-2006 at 10:48 AM

This guy is Matyas Bolya an very talented hungarian cobza player with an beautiful instrument

Moldavian folk music

Koya - 4-27-2006 at 11:00 AM

MMatyas Bolya on cobza and Aurel Mandache on violin.

http://www.moldvahon.hu/files/49/382/aurel_01_bakoi_szerba.mp3

billkilpatrick - 4-27-2006 at 11:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Koya

... I know about 4 tunings. I have 2 cobzas I am using AEAD tuning when I am accompaining violin and flute. The higher
C-G-C-F is very good for accompain women sing.

D-G-D-A
A-E-A-D
E-A-D-G (like an bass guitar)
C-G-C-F


wow indeed koya - fabulous music and right in line with how medieval european music might also be played.

i've only found one on-line source for cobsa so far - hora - and haven't read any favorable reviews for their instrument. are there other on-line sources?

regards - bill

Hello Robi

sydney - 4-28-2006 at 06:19 AM

Good to hear from you my friend,

I hope you and your wife are doing well back home.

Thanks for that lovely music.

Keep in touch mate.


Emad

Sydney

Koya - 4-28-2006 at 09:39 PM

Hello Emad,
I sent an e-mail to you.
Thank you very much for your oud lessons in Sydney. It was fundamental learning for a beginner. I will always keep your advices.
I am very happy to be your friend.
Bye: Robi

Koya - 4-30-2006 at 12:32 PM

Bill,

The cobzas of Romanian 'HORA' Instrument Factory are one of the best ones, I myself also have one of their instruments. There are not so many other sources of buying cobzas, although there are some other Hungarian cobza makers, too.
They are also at very friendly prices.

If you have any questions, I will try to help.

Have a nice day,

koya

billkilpatrick - 4-30-2006 at 02:29 PM

thank you koya - you have opened up a whole new world for me with the cobza.

i am very interested in the way that the cobza is played. it is very close to the oud but very european ... a genuine "folk lute" - all of which interests me.

from the mp3 samples you posted i understand that it is basically an instrument of accompaniment using simple chords ("double-stop" or two note chords) with a strong emphasis on rhythm.

are there styles of play associated with the cobza - certain rhythms perhaps or chord progressions? in the past, was the cobza also played with a bow - like a viola de arco and viola da mano?

was it ever - or is it now - considered as a solo instrument? if yes, are there mp3s available?

in the hungarian tradition, is there such a thing as a recognized cobza repertoire? is it associated with a specific region of hungary or - like shepherds with their reed pipes - a particular type of work ... strolling players, in towns perhaps?

the mp3s you provided with tünde ivánovics and géza fábri are particularly beautiful and very moving. thank you again - bill

INVITATION TO THE MOLDAVIAN MUSIC AND DANCE CAMP 2006

Koya - 5-16-2006 at 07:12 AM

INVITATION TO THE MOLDAVIAN MUSIC AND DANCE CAMP 2006
IN SOMOSKA, ROMANIA
7 th - 8 th August, 2006

Music, theatre, entertainment, parades, street theatre performances, puppet theatre performances.

Guests: from the neighbouring villages in Transylvania as well as from Hungary

Programmes:
in the mornings & afternoons - dance lessons, music lessons, flute lessons, violin lessons, cobsa (folk lute) lessons
•craftsmanship: felt techniques ,pottery, beading, weaving,
•in the evenings from 8pm to dawn - parties in the football field,in Community Centre and in Folk and Jazz Pub

Music lessons:
•Moldavian flute: LEGEDI László István,
•Violin: MANDACHE Aurel
•Cobsa: PAUN Vasile, BOLYA Mátyás

Dance lessons with local as well as Hungarian musicians and folk dancers

Access to the Camp: by car / train / plane / bus (organised journey on demand)
Accommodation with families
Board (lunch + hot dinner) and participation fee for citizens outside Romania and Hungary: EUR 100
Applications due by 15 th June, 2006 (strictly!)
For information and application please contact info@moldvahon.hu

The correct date of this festival

Koya - 5-17-2006 at 01:16 AM

7 th - 16 th August, 2006

Ivánovics Tünde and Fábri Géza

Koya - 5-19-2006 at 11:51 PM

Hi folks,

Thre is one of my favorite song of " Master of Cobsa"


http://vvt.uw.hu/saveas_dl//SaveAs-1_HegyenSFoldon.mp3

They have hompage here:

http://www.mentesmaskent.hu

:applause::applause:

Ivánovics Tünde

Koya - 5-19-2006 at 11:58 PM

http://mentesmaskent.hu/

Ion Strimbeanu - Romanian cobza virtuous

Koya - 5-23-2006 at 05:59 AM

Hi folks,

I would like to show a track of Ion Strimbeanu, a Romanian cobza player. I don't know much about him.

A Romanian estrad orchestra accompanies him.

Enjoy it...

Koya

Ion Strimbeanu - more...

Koya - 5-23-2006 at 06:01 AM

And here is the second one...

Koya

billkilpatrick - 5-25-2006 at 07:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Koya
Hi folks,

Thre is one of my favorite song of " Master of Cobsa"


http://vvt.uw.hu/saveas_dl//SaveAs-1_HegyenSFoldon.mp3

They have hompage here:

http://www.mentesmaskent.hu

:applause::applause:


dear koya -

i've tried several times to open the mp3's on the cobza site you posted but was only partially successful, each time. for some reason, only the opening bars of the selections - fortunately, it's mostly you playing the introduction on cobsa - gets down loaded ... the rest never completes.

just now, after contacting the site, i left the line open for an hour and it still didn't complete. i'm told that the problem might be with your modem.

i think your playing and tünde ivánovics' voice are superb together - "tante bene cose" as they say here ... "many good things" (to you both.)

ciao - bill

Koya - 5-28-2006 at 01:19 AM

Hello Bill,

Fábri Géza is my teacher of cobza. He plays on this record.

They heve website, try download the songs from here:

http://www.mentesmaskent.hu/b4ii.htm

:wavey::wavey:

Bye: Koya

billkilpatrick - 5-28-2006 at 01:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Koya
Hello Bill,

Fábri Géza is my teacher of cobza. He plays on this record.

They heve website, try download the songs from here:

http://www.mentesmaskent.hu/b4ii.htm

:wavey::wavey:

Bye: Koya


ahhh ... all is clear now - i thought you and fábri géza were one in the same person. i left favorable comments on their music on their website but i addressed them to you ...

i tried the site again but the problems of downloading (as described earlier) remains the same.

... guess i'll just have to buy the disc.

saluti tanto - bill

Paun Vasile, 1937 -2006

Koya - 6-22-2006 at 11:11 PM

Paun Vasile our favorite original cobza player passed on this week in Italy. Rest in peace.

Vasile

Koya - 6-22-2006 at 11:12 PM

This is a short piece with him.

arsene - 5-19-2007 at 11:11 AM

Hey Koya, thanks for this great thread!

I am a Romanian currently living in Holland, and I play the Cobza as well.

I just got myself a new one last week from Hora in Reghin, but I was wondering if there were any Hungarian builders as well - for instance, who made that beatiful, Oudish cobza that Matyi Bolya is holding? And I noticed Geza Fabri has mechanical tuners on his cobza... Me wants!

Thanks for the nice mp3s too, it's very hard to get decent cobza music nowadays in Romania, there aren't much Cobza players left.

Check out these nice videos of the group Trei Parale, with cobza player Florin Iordan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzvs0wyrCko

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7I5id8UCZI

I am also going to experiment with Oud strings on the cobza, see what the nylon will do to the sound!

Best,

Andi

adamgood - 5-19-2007 at 11:16 AM

Hi Andi, welcome.

I'm Adam, I'm living in Holland as well, in Haarlem. I play ud/oud but have an interest in Cobza (never played one). If you're interested to get together drop me a note...I'm sending you a private "U2U" as well.

Groeten vanuit Haarlem

Adam

spyros mesogeia - 5-19-2007 at 02:27 PM

Hello my friends
I live in Romania now,and I had the chance to play a cobza.Nice instrument.If you need any oud participation on the cobza congres please let me know.I will be in timisoara,and send me an e-mail so we can see more details.
Best Regards

Spyros Koliavasilis

Jack_Campin - 5-19-2007 at 03:46 PM

Somebody might have told me my page started all this discussion! I'll add a link to this thread.

Fabri's machine heads are a great idea. Trying to get mine to stay in tune with the pegs is a nightmare.

billkilpatrick - 5-19-2007 at 10:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jack_Campin
Somebody might have told me my page started all this discussion! I'll add a link to this thread.

Fabri's machine heads are a great idea. Trying to get mine to stay in tune with the pegs is a nightmare.


jack - who made your cobza? ... HORA? i thought you said folk lutes (in an early music context) didn't exist. - bill

Jack_Campin - 5-20-2007 at 02:27 AM

Yes, it's a Hora one - I say on the page where I got it.

I can't imagine why they supply them set up that way, nobody mentioned in this thread uses that factory stringing/tuning.

arsene - 5-20-2007 at 03:24 AM

Rectification: Thanks to Claudio for starting this thread and thanks to Koya for the mp3s and pictures!

Jack: I have a Hora cobza with that weird tuning, but I succesfully retuned it to DADG. I also tried to tune it to EADG and a couple of other tunings, which worked just fine. I also tried your 12-string dreadnought idea, but indeed, found the strings very hard to tune this way. I am now going to put Ud strings on the little baby, see what it does!

Adam: Sure thing, I am thinking about starting to play the Ud (never actually played one!) and I could need some of your advice on buying one, I guess...
I have found this nice little store in The Hague, called Soner Müzik & Film (it's a Turkish shop) where they sell Uds starting from E 125,-. So me says to myself, me says, self, that's a bargain!
Or is it?

Groeten uit Schiedam

adamgood - 5-20-2007 at 04:09 AM

Andi,

Cool man! I think we should get together, I have a very nice ud you can try out. I do think EU 125 is quite a bargain for an ud, way too much of a bargain and I imagine it plays like crap. I'm going to look into this place in Den Haag though, sounds cool.

here's my (now not so private) email

adamgood@adamgood.com

adam

Koya - 5-20-2007 at 09:54 AM

Hi there,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L91_VnoJwRI&mode=related&sea...

:buttrock::buttrock::buttrock:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_qW3-94fEo&mode=related&sea...

:applause::applause::applause:

Tatros ensemble & Fábri Géza & Ivánovics Tünde

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntUEFTSG49I&mode=related&sea...

:wavey::wavey::wavey::wavey::wavey::wavey:

arsene - 5-20-2007 at 12:12 PM

hey Koya ! great vids!

do you know who built Bolya's cobza? it sure looks the part!

Koya - 5-21-2007 at 01:01 AM

Hello Andi,

I think Bolya Matyi has some cobzas. The cobza on this page was made by a lute builder in Budapest, but he has some other intruments rebuilt by himself.
The Hora's intrumet is good for basics, we change the fingerboard and mechanical tuner is also necessary...but the original cobza pegs is nicer.
I better like and I tuning a lot...
If you need I can give you contact him.

Bye: Koya

Paun Vasile plays on cobza

Koya - 5-21-2007 at 01:14 AM

Hi Folk,

I would like to share some music with one of my favorite cobza players. He passed away last year.

The first track with Aurel Mandache (fiddle).

Paun Vasile plays on cobza

Koya - 5-21-2007 at 01:18 AM

The second one:

Bogdan Toader on fiddle and Vasile on cobza

Bye: Koya

Vasile & cobza fans

Koya - 5-21-2007 at 01:40 AM

There is Vasile and their pupils in the Moldavian folk camp in 2003.

arsene - 5-21-2007 at 02:11 AM

hey Koya!

Mechanical pegs would be a lot nicer, but I absolutely agree there is a certain charm to the wooden pegs on this little thing.

Yes, I would like to have some contact info, I'm thinking about pimping my cobza or maybe let them build a new one to my specifications... who knows...

Thanks,

Andi

arsene - 5-21-2007 at 02:40 AM

Adam: It might play like crap, but I'm not planning to actually dedicate my life to the ud, as I already play quite a lot of stringed instruments and function as a producer too - I'd just like to learn the basics of Ud and I don't think it would be wise in my case to splash out a year's saving on one... But then again, 125 might be a little TOO cheap. Maybe I should go for the 270 euros? or look elswhere? I've already decided I would like to have a Turkish one.

Another problem is I am very impatient and I want it NOW NOW NOW! :):airguitar:

arsene - 5-21-2007 at 11:27 AM

So I went out, tried some, and went for the more expensive one. Sounds fine to me, plays good too. I am now a happy Ud ánd Cobza owner...!

The Ud is made by Ilyas Cakan (cedilla under the C) in Izmir, Turkey. I looked for him on Google but no luck. maybe some of you know more about this builder, but since this is the Cobza thread, I'm going to start a new thread, if you dont mind.

Plus I just realized I'm new to this forum but haven't properly introduced myself! So far I think you guys are great!

arsene - 5-25-2007 at 02:43 AM

OK - so I restrung my cobza with oud strings, using the four lighter courses. I tuned it to AEAD but found I could easily tune up to BEAD as well, effectively creating a mini-oud (with turkish tuning).

While I know lose the octave-effect at the two top strings, I find that I like the somewhat warmer sound of nylon better. It still has that characteristic cobza sound though, only smoother, if you will.

I'll try to make some time next week and record some tunes with this oudicized cobza!


I still have some cobza strings left though, and I'm thinking on putting those on my mandola. Maybe it will sound like a mini bouzouki then!

Check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkUOvsy2L6Y

Komáromy - 5-29-2007 at 05:36 AM

I am wondering what kind of strings to use for a Koboz/Cobza. I think the one I'm using currently has a guitar strings on it. I am going to try changing it with Mandolin or Oud Strings. In pictures however it appears to have nylon strings. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Also, I have a question regarding Moldavian Csángo music. Perhaps you can help me Koya. I am looking for sheet music or the chords to Moldvai songs.

Here is some stuff I have already found:
http://www.moldvai.extra.hu/kotta/moldvai_kottak2.pdf

Specifically I am looking for chords to the Kecskés, Kezes, Bulgaros/Bulgarjaszka, and Hojna, for a show I will be performing in late in June. Any key would do as I would be able to convert it but I am working in C because of the furulya/flute. So far I have invented chords, based on the melody, for the songs I don't have sheet music for.
Other songs that I am interested in learning are the Öves, Gergelytánc, Virágtánc, and Drumul Dracului (Ördög Útja), though any other music would be great to learn as well. My ultimate goal is to be able to play at táncház-es.
So far I have mainly heard Moldavian music on the Cobza/Koboz. Does anyone know where I can find any other kinds?

arsene - 5-29-2007 at 06:09 AM

hey Komáromy, I can help you with 2 of your questions.

The string thing is quite straightforward as there actually are Cobza strings available... I haven't found them online though, but maybe you could order them through http://www.hora.ro. they're steel strings, very much like those of a bouzouki (lower two in octaves).

Having said that, I have recently put oud strings on my cobza and that works wonders, the sound changes to a certain extent ofcourse and you lose the octave effect, but the characteristic cobza sound remains and I like the warmer touch to the sound.

About the music; check these out:

Trei Parale - Dorul meu

trei parale - romanian song

Trei Parale - lume, lume

Some nice cobza playing here from Florin Iordan.

Also check out Koya's examples in this thread!!

Best,

Andi

Komáromy - 5-29-2007 at 06:51 AM

Arsene, Thanks for your help!
If I am unable to get Cobza/Koboz strings in time, as I am in North America, would you think Mandolin strings would suffice? Oud strings should be fairly easy for me to get as well.
That's some pretty good music posted in this thread.
I'm still on the search for written Moldva music though.

arsene - 5-29-2007 at 08:51 AM

I'm not sure about the mandolin strings... I play the mandola myself, and those strings seem to be a tad too thick for cobza, I think there's a risk of damaging the instrument since the actual cobza strings are of a lighter gauge.
Having said that, I know Jack Campin has put guitar strings on his cobza (of a 12-string guitar, see elsewhere in this thread). Apart from being hard to keep in tune, he doesn't seem to have damaged the instrument; but there still may be a risk of the bridge popping out etc.

Or you could try oud strings. I actually have this now on my cobza, and have tuned it to B E a d, just like a turkish oud. (this was more or less dictated by the strings, I didn't want to tighten them more.)

Bear in mind you will change the sound with oud strings, as these are nylon strings, and actual cobza strings are steel. You also lose the bouzouki-like octave effect on the upper two courses.

I hope this helps. If all else fails, let me know - I may be able to send you a set of my cobza strings if you really need it in a hurry.

cobza info

clarkwelsh - 5-29-2007 at 11:09 AM

I studied cobza in Bucarest with the late master, Marin Cotoanta. Marin, along with Ion Serban and Grigore Kiazim ,were the greatest masters of the instrument. They have all passed on, and there are few players left today.
I have seen a lot of info on cobza recently posted on this site, some is correct, and some is incorrect.
Cobza is not tuned like an oud, and does not use nylon strings, only metal!
The traditional tuning is low to high:
D (octaves), A (octaves), D (unison), and G (octaves or unison),.
The newer tuning is one step higher, EBEA, and works better for melody playing, however it is difficult to play in flat keys with the newer tuning. Marin Cotoanta played in EBEA tuning.
In Moldavia they play with brass instruments a lot, so they use the traditional tuning. In Muntenia and Oltenia they play with violin and folk flutes a lot, and flat keys are rarely used, so the EBEA tuning works well.
The traditional pick is made from a goose quill, which quickly wears out or cracks, so I use box sealing plastic banding, 1/4" wide, folded over and tied with thread about 3/4" back from the fold.
I hope this clears up some of the misunderstandings of this instrument!
Clark Welsh

arsene - 5-29-2007 at 02:54 PM

Clark, assuming you are talking about my posts about putting oud strings on a cobza, please take the time to read what i said. I am very well aware of how a cobza should be stringed and tuned. I just did some experimenting!

On another note, I've been looking for Kiazim records for a while now... Do you have some? Any idea where to find them? I didn't even find them in Romania...

Koya - 5-31-2007 at 01:30 AM

Hey Folks,
Currently we are in large renovations on our flat and I am out of Internet.
I am very happy to new infos about our favorit topic.
I will back soon. I would like write more about our relationship with cobza and the present time Moldavian music style.

Dear Komáromi,
That is a very good book with Moldavian sheet music

Sándor Balogh:

Instrumental tunes from Moldavia/

Moldvai hangszeres dallamok

http://www.etnofon.hu/moldvai%20BSkonyv_ang.htm

with CD with examples

http://www.etnofon.hu/moldvai%20h%20dallamok_ang.htm

Bye: Koya

arsene - 5-31-2007 at 03:39 AM

Hey Koya, glad to have you back! Do you know some Hungarian luthiers who make cobzas? Do they have websites? I'd like to have a signature cobza someday:airguitar:;)

And now we're at it: Does anyone have some recordings with Grigore Kiazim? I've been looking for him!

arsene - 6-1-2007 at 11:41 AM

What I'd also like to find is "Metoda de Cobza" by Ion Zlotea... Clark, maybe you could point me in the right direction? I went to several bookstores in Bucharest but they didn't seem to even know the book!

Komáromy - 6-27-2007 at 04:52 AM

Thanks to you all for your help. Our show was great in part because of you. Now we are going on a road trip to Quebec, Canada to show Hungarian culture and we will be teaching Molvai Csango dances to the children.
I have a friend who made a Koboz. It took him a year. He used our original Koboz and created a paper maché mould out of it. He filled it with fibre glass and used wood for the face and neck. He is going to paint the fibreglass so that it looks like wood. It gives a louder sound but it is much the same. I will try to get pictures of this modern Koboz.

Dear Koya, Thank you for the information about the book. :bowdown::applause::airguitar: I will be ordering it soon.
Cheers,
András

Koya - 6-27-2007 at 06:04 AM

Hi Komáromi, Hi Folks,

Do you speak Hungarian? I could help more easy and personally by an e-mail.
Now we are finishing the renovation works on our flat.
I am comming back soon. Let's talk about cobza!
It woud be very usefullf Romanian players would says also..
What is the TRUTH about cobza? This story similar to archeology. We have a little bit crumb...from the past.
I would like to write about some crumbs what we know...
Cheers,
Koya

Romanian delegation

arsene - 6-27-2007 at 09:50 AM

Good to hear from you again, friend Koya. Hope all is well with your flat and hope to see you soon getting back to discussing our favourite instrument!

By the way: I'm a Romanian cobza player... :bounce:

The way I see it, the cobza came along with the Turks, and could be a mixture of ud and saz (because it's basically a small ud with saz-like strings!). :airguitar:

I believe the cobza - the way we know it today - originated in Romania and was extensively used in Romanian folk music until the guitar and the cimbalom pushed the cobza away.
In the meantime, cobza spread to the Hungarian lands where it is still widely used to play folk music (which very much resembles classical medieval music).

This is similar to the story of the taragot: a reed instrument which originated in Hungary, but is now more used in Romania. It´s like they've exchanged instruments: you get to use the cobza, we get the taragot...:shrug:

I think the major difference between Romanian and Hungarian playing is that in Romania it's more (but not only) used as a melody instrument (see for example Ion Zlotea) and in Hungary it's used more as a rythm instrument, although not exclusively (see the myriad of examples our friend Koya gave us in this thread!).


Then there´s also the Ukrainian Kobza (with a K) but that's actually more of a Domra (see HERE).

Check out the Ukranian Kobza HERE

A note on spelling:
I believe Koboz is Hungarian, Cobzã (with a c!) is Romanian and Kobza is Russian/Ukrainian (written as "kob3a")

In Romania we also have the word lãuta, which could also indicate a cobzã or an oud, or a lute. Hence we have two words for lute/cobza players; "lãutar" (which literaly means luthier, but not in the sense of making instruments, rather playing them) and "cobzar".

Nowadays, a lãutar is basically anyone who plays a stringed instrument, so violonists, cimbalom players, sometimes even accordeon players could all be called lãutari.
Cobzar on the other hand can only mean cobza player.

The name Cobzã/Koboz could or could not be related to Turkic instruments as Kobyz, Komuz, Kopuz, etc.

arsene - 6-27-2007 at 10:34 AM

Koya, can you tell us some names of Hungarian cobza luthiers? and maybe their contact info?

Jack_Campin - 6-27-2007 at 11:37 AM

I got a Romanian friend to look for Zlotea's book on a trip back home a few months ago. He found that it's long out of print and nobody seems likely to reprint it.

Maybe a candidate for PDF-ing like Jamil Bashir's book.

arsene - 6-27-2007 at 02:50 PM

If there's anyone in this forum who has it.. I could easily translate it all to English!

Or maybe some other book?

Koya - 7-5-2007 at 07:15 AM

Hi Folks,

There is some music from North Moldova, from Pirtesti, Suceava (Moldavia, Romania) recorded in 1977.

http://media.nacs.uci.edu/rgarfias/mp3/romania/suceava-77-107-15.mp...

http://media.nacs.uci.edu/rgarfias/mp3/romania/suceava-77-107-14.mp...

I like it. I think very nice pieces. This is a collection of Robert Garfias.

http://itc.uci.edu/%7Ergarfias/kiosk/sound-film.html

Cheers: Koya

Koya - 7-5-2007 at 07:23 AM

HI Folks,
There is some amazing music from Moldavian region from Csángó music and dance camp from Somoska. The next folk music and dance camp will be in this August.


http://medvegyu.organic.hu/2005_08_11_14_Moldva/koncert_08_11_Somos...

http://medvegyu.organic.hu/2005_08_11_14_Moldva/koncert_08_11_Somos...

http://medvegyu.organic.hu/2005_08_11_14_Moldva/koncert_08_11_Somos...

http://medvegyu.organic.hu/2005_08_11_14_Moldva/koncert_08_11_Somos...

http://medvegyu.organic.hu/2005_08_11_14_Moldva/koncert_08_11_Somos...

http://medvegyu.organic.hu/2005_08_11_14_Moldva/koncert_08_11_Somos...

This part of this selection is some examples with some melodies and dances that the Csangos
(Moldavian Hungarians) play, too.

Bye: Koya

arsene - 7-5-2007 at 07:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by arsene
Koya, can you tell us some names of Hungarian cobza luthiers? and maybe their contact info?


Dito.

Koya - 7-5-2007 at 02:24 PM

Hey Arsene,

I don't want give you bad advice...I don't know who is the best luthier in Hungary because I didn't use too many different instruments.
One of my cobzas was made by Vrábel Jánoos. He has a website.

http://hangszerek.uw.hu/

I know a lutemaker who made cobzas, He made one of a Bolya Matyi's cobzas, but he hasn't got website.
I don't have his contact, but I will ask for you from Bolya Matyi.
These cobzas look like a lute.

And finally I heard about a guy who makes very good cobzas in Transylvania. He is Ferenc Tamás.
I will look for his contact later.

Koya

spyros mesogeia - 7-5-2007 at 02:31 PM

Hello Koya
If I will be lucky,a friend of mine has found for me a kobza on a small village,a very old one,
I will have it in a few weeks hopfully.
Best Regards
Spyros
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