Mike's Oud Forums - Powered by XMB

My next next oud...

Pages: 1 2

Jameel - 11-27-2006 at 03:50 PM

You guys are too much. This is just a simple one. Jeez! (I can't wait to hear it either

) Okay, questions.

Infamoud, this one might be for sale. Depends on how it sounds. I'll probably hold on to this one for a few months to see how the sandwich top develops, being the first sandwich top oud and all. Hmmm....maybe I'll call it the "shawarma" model.

)

Mav, the soundboard it tapping nicely. Nothing "incredible", but very good sustain and bass. The guitar maker I learned this from--his guitars have an incredible post-assembly tap. Almost like a drum, like the top is a stretched skin. Much more than an oud. I don't know if that means anything for the oud, but it's got me wondering.

Samir, I haven't hummed in the soundhole. Also, no to all your questions. Making the sandwich top definitely takes more time and labor, not to mention specialized tools like a very accurate thickness sander. In all, the sandwich top is more difficult to produce and costlier. Plus it's not forgiving. A slight miscut with a place or chisel, or even some ham-handed sanding could wreak havoc with the .5mm outer skin. I had some close calls on this one, but thank God nothing serious. Frankly, its a bit of a headache and worry to make, especially in cedar which is MUCH softer than spruce, and consequently subject to scratches and dings.

Lee, the top of the bridge is actually micarta. Its just there to prevent string wear in the walnut bridge. I normally would put two strips of bone fore and aft, this was easier and quicker. The oud stand is a prototype for one I'm working on. I'll probably have them available for sale soon. Here is a pic of a finished one in solid wlanut. I'm still figuring out materials (solid wood, veneered mdf, baltic birch ply), and prices. It has cork along the edges and where the neck rests--soft enough to not scratch, but still a bit grippy to prevent the oud sliding about. I'm also considering a strap for the neck area, but that might come later. It's not really necessary in my opinion.

Jameel - 11-27-2006 at 04:04 PM

About 5 coats Tru-oil. The cherry looks really nice. Its really figured. The shape of the bowl is also more apparent here. Moving more toward the Nahat shape mentioned in the early part of the thread.

SamirCanada - 11-27-2006 at 05:00 PM

Stunning

oudipoet - 11-27-2006 at 06:27 PM

dear jameel i am not even try to compliment your work u really know how i feel about it %100 top quality but i just noticed something that your oud stands they are stuning jameel you should definettly make more of those "ofcourse if you make them" and sell them on your webpage that would be a great business for you.

PS: i can not wait to see the finishing of this oud and hear it see it i am sure it will be perfect.

abusin - 11-28-2006 at 04:39 AM

Hi Jameel,

again, your style is an art itself I admire the passion you put into your work and the detailed info and the step by step approach you share with others it make it look so easy and tempting to try doing what you do, its rather contagious man.

as in all your previous projects you're an asset to this forum, may God bless your hands, I'm sure all members agree you are a star and your brand one day will speak out LOUD, GO ahead man shock us again and again

I'm tempted to place my order soon

BIG UP JAMEEL :xtreme:

the stool is beautiful too man very smart,

best regards to all OUD lovers, and fine art

thanks,

Awad

Melbourne - 11-29-2006 at 02:09 AM

Looking great....Thanks for sharing. Something to look forward to in time for Xmas :bounce:

paulO - 11-29-2006 at 02:31 PM

Hi Jameel,

The cherry is so beautiful and understated, and the "no separator strips" look is fantastic. I can only imagine what this looks like in person -- I love your work, and I echo the sentiments of others, thanks for sharing the projects, very much appreciated.

I can only say one thing about the oud stand -- I want one !!

Regards...PaulO

Peyman - 11-30-2006 at 01:00 PM

Jameel,
That oud looks crazy! Now I understand why you were twisting the ribs. The bowl looks awsome. Can't wait for the completed oud. :xtreme:

Jameel - 11-30-2006 at 01:06 PM

Thanks everybody. The finish is coming along nicely. I've got about 15 coats of Tru-oil (very thin) on and the finish is looking beautiful.

mavrothis - 12-1-2006 at 07:55 PM

Just beautiful Jameel, thank you!

Peyman - 12-5-2006 at 05:46 PM

I just saw that GAL's issue #88, this Jan. is going to have a feature on the double top (with nomex) by Randy Reynolds. Should be interesting to read.

akram - 12-12-2006 at 10:34 AM

jameel
as in arabic "jamel jidan"
it is very buteful
i am wating for sound file
when you will make basher oud?
akram

Andy - 12-12-2006 at 12:07 PM

Jameel, another masterpiece, more than an oud but a work of art to add. Any installation problems or difficulties with the nomax?

Jameel - 12-16-2006 at 05:48 PM

Thanks again everyone for your sentiments. I do appreciate your encouragement very much. It's a lot of fun making these things, and you all make it moreso.

So I'll wrap up the project by sharing some final thoughts about this particular oud. I started this instrument because I wanted to explore the possibility of making a bowl in the typical Nahat shape, and I thought the best way would be to just dive in and try it, instead of trying to figure it out in my head first. Building this bowl taught me a lot about non-circular bowl shapes, and set me up for making bowls of any almost shape. I wasn't as diligent as I should have been in preparing the neck block (I made the blocks rather quickly as I wanted to get going on the bowl). The neck is a bit thick towards the bowl. This is just a comfort issue, and doesn't particularly bother me. It actually makes the neck stiffer and less likely to distort over time. Other than that, the rest of oud came out pretty nice I think. After I made this "excercise" bowl, I decided I might as well finish it. Around that time a friend introduced me to a local classical Guitar maker and I was able to make the sandwich top of western red cedar and Nomex honeycomb. I don't have too many soundboards under my belt (and none of cedar), but this sandwich top definitely had a noticeable effect on the sound of this oud. Overall the oud is louder, deeper, more resonant, and has greater sustain and "echo" than the ouds I've made so far. It has a "big" sound so to speak. Now, whether these characteristics are desireable in a traditional Arabic style oud is a question that should be asked. I suppose in the end it's a matter of personal taste (and ouds are definitely subject to individual scrutiny, no doubt!). I am defintely interested in making another sandwich top oud, perhaps adjusting some of the parameters of this method to achieve different results. This oud is also less than a week old as of the following recording, so things will definitely change in the first year. To illustrate this, at the 8:28 mark in the recording, I switch to oud #2 (see 1st thread in this forum). This oud has mellowed and warmed a great deal in the year since I finished it. If this oud warms and mellows to the same extent, I anticipate this will be a very nice instrument, at least to my ears. I look forward to putting this oud into the hands of some accomplished players to get their feedback.

Another experimental aspect of this oud was the use of bone tuning pegs. In all, I'm really impressed by these pegs. The density of the bone allows a small shank for more precise tuning, as well as very smooth tuning. So far, these pegs have been more user-friendly than almost every wood peg I've used. Not to mention they look pretty unique too, but bone tuning pegs used to be quite popular in fact.

Here are the oud specs:

Bowl wood: American Black Cherry, Micarta tail cover inlay
Neck: Cherry veneered limewood
Pegbox: Cherry with Micarta end cap
Face: Western Red Cedar/Nomex sandwich
Rose: Nogale (Brazilian Walnut) ply with micarta calligraphic inlay
Bridge: American Black Walnut with micarta cap.
Face and fingerboard binding: Maple, Walnut and Mahogany tile
Fingerboard: Rosewood
Beard: Rosewood and micarta
Pegs: bone
Scale: 61.5cm
Strings: Pyramid Lute 3.5kg tension CFAdgc'

Sound sample: click here

Jameel - 12-16-2006 at 05:55 PM

Jameel - 12-16-2006 at 05:57 PM

Jameel - 12-16-2006 at 06:00 PM

Jameel - 12-16-2006 at 06:05 PM

Jameel - 12-16-2006 at 06:14 PM

Jameel - 12-16-2006 at 06:19 PM

brothers...... :cool:

Hosam - 12-16-2006 at 06:22 PM

Congratulations Jameel, terrific work!

Melbourne - 12-16-2006 at 10:50 PM

Yes....Borthers indeed, and I'm sure the sons of a very proud father

I'm confident we can expect many more members of this unique family in years to come. Mabrouk Jameel on another outstanding effort. Just I'd like to also note the beauty of the "simplicity" of this new oud - definitely my cup of tea

Samer;
Melbourne

INFAMOUD - 12-17-2006 at 12:17 AM

Man...That Oud is a Beauty..And wow the sound has so much to it..I cant believe a new Oud can push sound out like that..You have blessed hands..Looking forward to more of your masterpieces..Thankyou for sharing..

riadh.3oud - 12-17-2006 at 05:09 AM

it 's a beauty...
you are a master jameel

amine2 - 12-17-2006 at 11:32 AM

very good copy of tayar oud

oudplayer - 12-17-2006 at 06:54 PM

hey jameel

AMazing !!!!! whast yr next
thx sammy

Jameel - 12-18-2006 at 03:14 PM

Thanks everybody. Glad to share....

I'm not a master though. Still learning about this whole enchilada.

SamirCanada - 12-18-2006 at 05:41 PM

Thanks Jameel for sharing you are truly and inspiration for many people.
I love the way this oud sounds already it sounds a lot like my shehata.
Who is to say your not a master. Your are definetly a master of your own hands as you show us everytime you set about doing a project. you are way too humble but thats what defines your personality.
Keep the http://www.khalafoud.com going
its really the number 1 source for the north american oud enthousiast.

Wow

LeeVaris - 12-18-2006 at 06:24 PM

Really beautiful work here ! :applause:

The sound is BIG! I love the open ringing quality to the notes. The sandwich top is definitely worth continued experiementation. Please keep going with this – I think you're really on to something!

Brian Prunka - 12-18-2006 at 08:15 PM

Wow Jameel . . . I don't have the words to talk about this oud. Beautiful simplicity of design, great sound. I hope to someday have the honor of playing one of your instruments.
Fantastic.

ps. Nice playing, too . . .

mavrothis - 12-19-2006 at 07:55 AM

Absolutely gorgeous in every way Jameel! Geia sta xeria sou!

You are not only a masterful and innovative builder, but your presentation both in your playing and pictures are art in themselves.

I really look forward to playing your ouds sometime, and wish you the best and more of the same creativity and artfulness.

Take care,

mavrothis

Mike - 12-19-2006 at 10:04 AM

Jameelo...you are a freakin' stud dude! I think I'm ready to order my first J.A. oud. Check your email inbox buddy! Thank goodness for tax returns and poker winnings!

By the way...got the oud stand. Thank you very much! Not only does it match perfectly with my furniture, but as usual, your craftsmanship is flawless and the oud stand is extremely functional. Much much better than the metal guitar stands and well worth the money!

Thanks again bro!

Jameel - 12-20-2006 at 07:22 AM

Thanks again, my loyal followers!

I wish you could all play this oud so I could get a chance to stand back and really hear it. I'll post some audio/video as soon as I get this into the hands of a good player.

Thanks especially to Mike and his forum. I don't think I'd be making these things anymore if I couldn't share it with you all.

On to the next one! :airguitar:

Time - 12-20-2006 at 12:35 PM

This is amazing work Jameel you are the most generous man I have ever known. you share your knowldge with pride. thanks

The oud looks and sounds beautifull. I wish I can try it live.

akram - 12-21-2006 at 09:33 PM

hello jameel
could you past sound sample?
akram

akram - 12-23-2006 at 11:00 AM

thank you
it sound very good
akram

abusin - 12-23-2006 at 05:12 PM

Jameel, all is beautiful I wish you all the best for Christmas, Eid and the new year.... whasup for 2007 man another stunner?

all the best

Awad

Jonathan - 12-25-2006 at 07:19 PM

I have been looking at this beautiful oud over and over again, and finally I am able to hear the sound sample (computer problems). Stunning, my friend. Very rich, and even throughout the entire spectrum.
I love the look of this oud, as well. The simple beauty of that cherry wood--incredible.
How many coats of the Tru Oil did you finally put on? Did you just use the finish, or the Tru Oil sealer, as well? Whatever you did, I want to take the same approach next time around. A really beautiful, natural look.

Jameel - 12-26-2006 at 07:10 AM

Thanks Awad.

Jonathan, Thanks my friend. This oud is improving everyday. It's losing its rawness very quickly. It's developing a really great sound. You pick it up and just start playing Sunbati right away. It has more of the Sunbati-style sustain than a Farid-esque punch, at least at this point. I think this sandwich top is really going to pay off.

I probably did 20+ sessions of Tru Oil. Maybe a bit more. I did start with a coat of the sealer. It definitely is different than the Tru oil itself, quicker dry, less absorbtion. It speeds up the build process a bit. I'll probably use it again. After about the first 5 coats I did a wet sand with 400, not worrying if I cut through any layers of finish. I did this twice I think. (i.e. after another 5 coats) Then I just did about three coats a day, french-polished on (leaving no streaks). If there was any roughness or streaking, I sanded that out with 600 or 1000, lightly. After maybe the 15th coat it looks great and feels very smooth. I put a few extra on for good measure, then waited a week (pure agony!) before I rubbed with 0000 steel wool and buffed with a little lemon oil and burlap. The finish feels like a silk sheet. Oh yeah.

Jonathan - 12-26-2006 at 07:41 AM

20+!! Wow. You're taking it to a whole new level!
Stunning.

Time - 12-26-2006 at 09:57 AM

Question:

I didn't see any flat sawn rips, is this intentional?

I think this is why it has a nice attractive appearance.

Jameel - 12-26-2006 at 10:07 AM

Those 20 are individually thin though, since applying it with the french polish technique doesn't allow for much build. You could get similar results doing brushed on thicker coats, but you'd problems with previous coats staying soft, and you'd have a less-flat finish at the end. Doing it this way takes more time, but in the end it's easier and you get better results.

Time, what's a flat saw rip? I don't understand.

Time - 12-26-2006 at 04:04 PM

Quarter sawn is how the soundboard is cut. Flat is the opposite. I am not sure if I am using the right terminology.

Jameel - 12-26-2006 at 05:33 PM

I see. My local sawyer provides me with 3" thick clear blanks that I can cut sequential ribs from. I generally try to pick the most attractive face to start from, quarterswan or not. Quartersawn ribs are probably more stable and stronger than flatsawn, especially if the flatsawn ribs have serious runout. But it the lumber is good quality I dont see that it matters. I honestly dont remember how well quartered this blank was originally, but judging from the grain and figure, it looks some are right on quarter, while other are tapering off a bit.

Greg - 12-27-2006 at 08:01 PM

Jameel,

I only now had the opportunity to download and listen to your latest offering. A truly beautiful instrument to look at and to listen to. And your playing does great justice to this amazing instrument. You are an artist in every aspect of your work. Thank you sincerely for sharing.

Regards,

Greg

Jameel - 12-29-2006 at 06:43 AM

Thanks Greg. Very kind of you to take the time to say so. I just wish I could make them faster. The best part about this is hearing people play my ouds.

excentrik - 12-29-2006 at 03:31 PM

wow- I just saw it for the first time, ya Jameel! amazing habibi! Eid milad saeed wa sanaa saeeda ya 3m!

tarik

chaldo - 1-10-2007 at 03:42 PM

Hi Jameel, whos oud is that?? (the one standing on the oud stand) I have an exact same one. thanks

[img]http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?action=attachment&tid=3959&pid=30313[/img]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jameel
You guys are too much. This is just a simple one. Jeez! (I can't wait to hear it either

Jameel - 1-10-2007 at 05:31 PM

That's an old oud once owned by Al Gardner. It's a Mahmoud Haddad (Sham). It's currently owned by Doc O.

chaldo - 1-16-2007 at 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jameel
That's an old oud once owned by Al Gardner. It's a Mahmoud Haddad (Sham). It's currently owned by Doc O.

ah Mahmoud Haddad, thanks

theodoropoulos - 12-23-2008 at 11:59 AM

let me ask you one thing about the rib bender with the heat blanket.
when you have bended the rib anf take it off ,does it have 100% the shape of the mould,or does it have a bit different???

Jameel - 12-23-2008 at 05:48 PM

There is always a little springback.

my bender

theodoropoulos - 12-24-2008 at 05:06 AM

here are some few pictures of my bender..
it works with 2 small resistances.
can also anybody tell me how to put 2 photos together in the same attachment???

bender #2

theodoropoulos - 12-24-2008 at 05:08 AM

one more photo from back!!!

Jameel - 12-24-2008 at 05:19 AM

Nice bender, Theo.

theodoropoulos - 12-24-2008 at 05:21 AM

i am trying to find here in Greece this heat blanket,but it is very difficult to find it.
this bender has a problem of heat.....
the wood if it is tooo hot is destroyed....

Pages: 1 2