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oud versus guitar

bluesyOud - 3-3-2004 at 04:45 AM

east or west?oud or guitar?guitar has bends,slide guitar etc.
oud simply is fretless!!!
I love both although I'm interested in oud nowadays because I"m a beginner!!!!
how can oud and guitar speak with eachother? :rolleyes:

Re: Oud versus guitar.

wfspark - 3-13-2004 at 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bluesyOud
east or west?oud or guitar?guitar has bends,slide guitar etc.
oud simply is fretless!!!
I love both although I'm interested in oud nowadays because I"m a beginner!!!!
how can oud and guitar speak with eachother? :rolleyes:

Hello Bluesy. I have an answer to your guitar vs oud question. If you go back to Algeria at about five hundred years ago. The Algerians used the oud to play the repetative style of music known as the blues. When slaves from Algeria and other parts of west Africa came to America, they left the oud behind, but it was still in there blood. So, to mimic the mornful sounds of the oud, they used guitars with glass slides or light steal strings so bends can be executed. This is how the oud can speek with the guitar. So, don't be surprised if you hear me play the blues Algerian style on the oud. I'm not intending to take the oud out of its original contexts. I'm just trying to be creative with the historical facts that are out their.

William F. Sparks

Zulkarnain - 3-14-2004 at 04:41 AM

Hi :wavey:

I think I come across alot of Oud album that features guitar on it (flamenco style for example). They trade solo and backing up each other through out the songs-kinda normal but my personal opinion, I like to keep the oud as the oud and guitar as a guitar-I will try not to mix them up (for example using capo or slide and play other style of music using the oud) If I want to do that I pick up my guitar and do it.

Regards

bluesyOud - 3-14-2004 at 04:54 AM

wfspark this is amazing!!!!!
If you have more information on the subject please post.
I saw once an instrument played in India
on Tv which was the same thing as a slide guitar it was amazing!!!!
And know comes this thing about Algeria.
I gave up searching the blues a yaer ago because I wanted to find something closer to my culture,
but Music is everywhere!!!!
Thanks man please post more information if you can!!!!

I really want to hear a sound sample of
your playing on Oud .if you want post something!!!!

:bowdown:

bluesyOud - 3-14-2004 at 04:57 AM

some kinds of Traditional music in Greece use Pentatonic
scales !!!

bluesyOud - 3-14-2004 at 05:03 AM

Zulkarnain I agree that any music must keep it's identity!!!

Zulkarnain - 3-14-2004 at 05:10 AM

Hi

dont get me wrong though-I love khalih Abou Rabih Jazz/Oud music and Omar Bashir with Flamenco guitar-I like to hear but maybe just not my style to do it!

Salam

bluesyOud - 3-14-2004 at 05:11 AM

Zulkarnain I agree that any music must keep it's identity!!!
But experimentation leads you to
the limits,which means that something really progressive happens or something really awfull!!!!
In my opinion experiments are worth the try,even if the result is pointless!!!
Examples like Rabi Shankar make me
believe in an open minded music world,in
which many different people live and progress alltogether in Harmony!!!
But above all everyone should have his own identity that's the more important thing in my opinion!!!! :wavey:

Zulkarnain - 3-14-2004 at 05:26 AM

Hi

as a guitar player I cant agree anything more than that dude! :airguitar:

Regards

bluesyOud - 3-14-2004 at 05:55 AM

Zulkarnain I've recorded ,something
which shows the way the oud affected
my guitar playing!!!!
I believe the oud is great influence and I really enjoy that!!!
(these days I touched the guitar only
a few moments,I can't stop playing the oud).

:airguitar:

Brian Prunka - 3-14-2004 at 07:40 AM

Something you guys might like is Saltanah, Simon Shaheen's recording with V.M. Bhatt. Bhatt is an Indian who plays a kind of slide guitar in his lap, in Indian style. they improvise together, kind of like the record of Simon and Jihad Racy, taqasim. It's some of Simon's best playing.

Zulkarnain - 3-14-2004 at 07:41 AM

Hi Guys

If anybody can post those clips here would be great!

Thanks!

Brian Prunka - 3-14-2004 at 07:56 AM

here's one:

Simon Shaheen and V.M. Bhatt-Maqam Hijaz

bluesyOud - 3-14-2004 at 11:02 AM

Wow ,amazing Brian!!!!
unfortunately I can't find recordings
like that here!!!!

but it's ok ,I have two voyages in my mind:
1.Egypt
2.India

The dream will come true one day!!!!!
I BELIEVE IT!!!!!!!

Re: oud vs guitar.

wfspark - 3-14-2004 at 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bluesyOud
wfspark this is amazing!!!!!
If you have more information on the subject please post.
I saw once an instrument played in India
on Tv which was the same thing as a slide guitar it was amazing!!!!
And know comes this thing about Algeria.
I gave up searching the blues a yaer ago because I wanted to find something closer to my culture,
but Music is everywhere!!!!
Thanks man please post more information if you can!!!!

I really want to hear a sound sample of
your playing on Oud .if you want post something!!!!

:bowdown:

Hello Bluesy. That instrument that they use in India is the rudra vena. This is an instrument that is basically a pole with strings attached with a gord on each end of the pole. I'd do a sound sample, but I don't have any recording equipment. And yess, the oud is still used today. In fact, most of the modern oud players use an electric oud. It's pretty net! I've got a question for you. Do you think those stic-on classical guitar transducer pickups would work on an oud? Thanks.

William F. Sparks

Re: oud vs guitar.

wfspark - 3-14-2004 at 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zulkarnain
Hi :wavey:

Regards

Hey Zul. I don't think we're talking about mixing styles of playing technique; I think we're talking about how the oud can blend with the guitar. You don't have to use finger picking or slide guitar to make an oud blend with a guitar. The Africans have proven that. Really if you think about it, the guitar's playing techniques came from the middle east. So, it's really not that hard to blend a guitar with an oud. If the Africans can do it, so can we! If you have any questions, please poast. Thanks.

William F. Sparks

Zulkarnain - 3-14-2004 at 09:17 PM

Hi :wavey:

Oh! Sorry William-I appologize for that

Regards

David Parfitt - 3-15-2004 at 02:07 AM

Hi

I would just like to clear up some confusion.

The rudra vina (or bin) is an ancient Indian classical instrument with frets and two large gourd resonators (see first picture below).

The Mohan vina, however, was invented by Vishwa Mohan Bhatt relatively recently (see second picture below). It is based on an arch-top guitar, and as well as the melody strings it has four drone and twelve sympathetic strings. It is played across the lap - the right hand plucks the strings using plectra on thumb and index finger, while the left hand stops the strings with a steel slide.

Best wishes

David

Clarification

wfspark - 3-15-2004 at 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David Parfitt
Hi

I would just like to clear up some confusion.

The rudra vina (or bin) is an ancient Indian classical instrument with frets and two large gourd resonators (see first picture below).

The Mohan vina, however, was invented by Vishwa Mohan Bhatt relatively recently (see second picture below). It is based on an arch-top guitar, and as well as the melody strings it has four drone and twelve sympathetic strings. It is played across the lap - the right hand plucks the strings using plectra on thumb and index finger, while the left hand stops the strings with a steel slide.

Best wishes

David

Hello David. Thanks for the clarification! I look at articles of clasical instruments all the time, and they always told me that the rudra vina was used with the slide. Well, I know where to go for my middle eastern and indian information! Thanks!

William F. Sparks

Ronny Andersson - 3-15-2004 at 08:20 AM

>Y>ou don't have to use finger picking or >slide guitar to make an oud blend with a >guitar.

Indeed , I have heard Omar Bashir playing duo with a classical guitarist. Don't put the oud on a pedestal...

bluesyOud - 3-15-2004 at 09:16 AM

Quote:

Allthough I'm not aware of subjects concerning classical guitar,I believe yes.
Because the strings of an oud are related
with the strings on classical guitar.
In an electric guitar this is simplier matter,because in the electric guitar you have metalic strings on a magnetic Field
(pickups).I'm not sure of what happens with nylon strings!!!!
:bowdown:

oud and the guitar

Laith - 3-15-2004 at 11:26 PM

Hey!
The oud doesn't have to used in a flamenco and classical guitar setting--I have been in many wonderful settings where I have played oud with electric guitar, bass, drum set, rebab and didgeridoo. I have also done some stuff with rappers (some of it quite funny) and I've played with some really crazy jazz musicians that had horns and organ and stand up bass, as well as with an ensemble that included banjo and sitar. I If the oud has enough volume, it can go with anything!
Take care and good luck to all--Laith

Brian Prunka - 3-16-2004 at 08:47 AM

Here's an example of oud & guitar together, from Bill Frisell's record "The Intercontinentals".
This one has Frisell on guitar, Christos Govetas on oud, and Sidiki Camara on percussion.
yala

Brian Prunka - 3-16-2004 at 08:48 AM

from the same album:

The Young Monk

bluesyOud - 3-16-2004 at 10:31 AM

Brian ,that's coooooooooool!!!!!
hot hot hot stuff!!!! man!!!!

norumba - 4-1-2004 at 03:08 PM

Ihave played guitar for 30 years, oud for aboiut 2 0r 3....i havent looked back since!
i did do a CD where i recordedthe guiatr and oud in a series of exchanges - in my electric band i play oud instead of guitar now, with bass drums and trumpet...
oud "fits" me like no other instrument...!!

bluesyOud - 4-2-2004 at 02:11 PM

I'm a self tought non profesional musician,
I Love the electric guitar.I also play
bass,Harmonica,and baglama.But after trying all these instruments I've always went back
to my guitar.Like a cheating Husband,I always go back to my wife(guitar).But now
things seem to change .I fell in Love with
the oud!!!!Time for new younger and more beautiful wife?Time will show me the
way!!!!One thing is for sure the Oud is something special!!!
:bowdown:

Oud VS guitar

wfspark - 4-3-2004 at 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bluesyOud
I'm a self tought non profesional musician,
I Love the electric guitar.I also play
bass,Harmonica,and baglama.But after trying all these instruments I've always went back
to my guitar.Like a cheating Husband,I always go back to my wife(guitar).But now
things seem to change .I fell in Love with
the oud!!!!Time for new younger and more beautiful wife?Time will show me the
way!!!!One thing is for sure the Oud is something special!!!
:bowdown:

Well said Bluesy oud!

chuckerbutty - 4-5-2004 at 04:56 AM

On the subject of Indian instruments, there's something called a chitravina (or gottuvadyam) that's used in the Carnatic music of south india, and that's played using a slide. It looks something like a sitar, but it sits flat on the floor in front of the player. I've heard a chitravina duetting with a pipa (the chinese lute), and the two complement each other perfectly. I'm expect it would sound great with an oud as well.

BTW, I'm new here, and I must say that this board is pretty amazing.

Zulkarnain - 4-5-2004 at 05:20 AM

I luv the Putu Mayam!