Wood Fit for a King? - an investigation

In chapter 6 of "Structure of the Arabian and Persian Lute",
Dr H. G. Farmer translates part of the 15th C. Kitab kashf al-humum (preserved in the Top Qapu Saray Library at Stamboul) including comments about the best woods from which to make an oud.
According to Salih ibn 'Abdallah ibn Karim al-Nisaburi, the ancients used four kinds of wood (for the bowl?) these being Beech (zan), Elm (dardar), Walnut (saz = shiz= sasam) and Vine (mais) - which have qualities not found in other woods. He goes on to give some of these qualities. Beech gives a ringing tone; elm gives a fineness (of tone?); walnut lasts forever and resists insect attack. For Vine he makes the mysterious comment that it has a quality 'only to be found in the treasury of kings'.

I have never used Vine as a wood or know of it being used for instrument making in modern times. If the Vine referred to is Grape Vine (or a species of Grape Vine), it is a wood that is common to this part of the world. Indeed, as a woodlot owner (a tree farmer - of sorts), I regard the wild vine as a pest plant in that it grows quickly and can eventually overcome and kill any tree that it climbs. For this reason part of maintaining the wood lot is to cut any vine found climbing a healthy tree - a never ending task. The tree farm was planted about 25 years ago on redundant farm land but there are also many trees of venerable age growing in the original field fence-lines of the farm - including some large, well developed vines. Rather than clear out and waste these old vines, I thought that it might be interesting to use them in an experimental investigation to determine if this wood might be suitable for oud making.
I shall start with a vine patch that has stems over 6 inches (15 cm) in diameter. This vine plant appears to be dead so the wood may be partially seasoned (if it is not rotted). There are also many vines of lesser size - cut in recent years and now dry - to experiment with.
Vine seems an unlikely wood to me but there is only one way to find out. "Nothing ventured, nothing gained".
This is not a good time of year to work in the woods due to the high humidity and proliferation of biting insects so will likely get into the project later this year.

In the meantime, does any one know of Vine being used in modern times for oud bowl construction - or any kind of woodwork for that matter?

Interesting concept. I have this image in my head that vinewood would have a very low density and splits all over the place, but maybe that's because of the way the bark looks and feels. I realise I've never actually seen the heartwood.

We are talking of the days of Omar Khayyam here, so I'm guessing if vinewood was used then it was from vineyards and was torn up because the vines were past their best for fruiting. I'm wondering, if it was very old and had been constantly pruned, it might have ended up denser, harder and gnarlier, a bit like olivewood or walnut. So, if this doesn't work out so well with wild vinewood, it doesn't necessarily discount your theory.

Another thing I was wondering along these lines - could this reference have been allegorical, or even a sly joke, referring to the fact that vine was so highly prized by the secular authorities (but not really approved of by the religious ones). Maybe even something along the lines of music sounding better when you're wasted . Or perhaps the courtiers preferred to be inebriated when their kings picked up the oud, what with them having so many other responsibilities and so little time to practice - I've been there.

Not sure about rosewood - I am just quoting Farmer who translates saz=shiz=sasam as walnut. Is 'sesam' the same as 'sasam'? B.t.w. Indian rosewood was never used for European lutes as it was considered to be an inferior 'tonewood' - perhaps it was the same for early ouds? Indian rosewood has quite an open grain whereas European walnut is close grained - more suitable for thin ribs I would say (American walnut, is a bit more open grained). Walnut colour can range between brown and purple and can be very highly figured.
At this early stage, I am just researching available information so have yet to decide on what tests to carry out should the project seem viable. I might very well end up making an oud with grape vine wood ribs to test my findings. Not sure about comparative 'tone quality' experiments though - too subjective and life is too short!
Grapes were cultivated in early Arabic cultures to be used for distilling alcohol, not for consumption as a beverage, but for medicinal purposes - it is said!

So far, I have found few literary references to (grape) vine wood as a woodworking material. These days it is often used for open fire cooking (BBQ) as it is aromatic when burnt and provides a flavour to cooked meats.
One ancient reference to vine wood is in Ezekiel chapter 15 of the Old Testament of the Holy Bible. I am not qualified to interpret this parable but a literal summary is that wild vine wood is no good as a woodworking material. It is only good for burning! So, perhaps I am 'barking up the wrong tree' here and should not waste any more time on this project?
A more recent reference to vine wood is found in the mid
19th C publication "Turning and Mechanical Manipulation, Volume 1" by Charles Holzapffel. The first part of the book deals with materials for turning. Under 'Apricot - Tree', the author refers to the 18th C French turner, Bergeron, who comments that often those woods that bear agreeable fruits are not handsome in appearance or agreeable in scent as might be expected. In this category, in addition to Apricot wood, he lists Orange, Lemon, Quince, Pomegranate, Coffee and Vine "and many others occasionally met with, rather as objects of curiosity, than as materials applicable to the arts"
Both sources indicate that vine was not considered to be a generally useful or commercially available woodworking material - for whatever reasons. Nevertheless, could vine, in rare circumstances - carefully selected for a specific application - still be a perfectly viable material for making oud bowls? Lets try and find out.

This afternoon I gathered two small samples of wild grape vine from my wood lot. These had been cut over a year ago so were relatively dry and seasoned. The samples were each sliced in two on a band saw and the sawn surfaces planed smooth to reveal the grain. The large sample measures 50 mm in diameter and the small sample 25 mm. No checking or splitting due to drying of the samples is evident. The heart wood is light brown with white sap wood - medium open grain but less than American Walnut. Inspection of the end grain shows that it is a wood of 'ring-porous' classification - that is it is a hardwood with relatively small (but visible under low magnification) pores in the early wood and very small (indistinguishable under low magnification) pores in the late wood. (Other ring porous wood species include Elm, Oak, Ash, Hickory, Chestnut and many others).
Counting the rings in the large sample indicate its age to be about 25 years - so wild vine is not such a fast growing wood after all.
I would judge the density to be 'medium' or perhaps 'medium/heavy' - just guessing, around 0.5 to 0.6 Specific Gravity.

Thanks Samir.
Ouds of today would appear to be much more heavier built than early ouds - using denser hardwoods and thicker sections (and presumably much higher string tensions and different tone colour) than would have been found in earlier times. Farmer in 'Structure of the Arabian and Persian Lute in the Middle Ages' quotes from several early texts including:
"It is necessary that the wood of the bowl should be as thin as possible and of even thickness throughout ....". (9th C)
"The wood of the bowl should be thin and made from light wood.." (10th C)
"Seasoned Larch wood should be cut very thin for the soundboard. The bowl should be of thinner wood than the soundboard. The bowls of the best ouds are made from 11 ribs but sometimes 13 are used" (14th C)
"The wise agree that wood of medium weight is required for an oud - the best wood being 'shah' from Darya-bar or sometimes from Sardia.." (14C)
"An essential to the oud is wood as thin as possible ...... It is agreed that the lighter the wood the better ..." (15C)
From this it would seem that an oud during this time period was constructed more like a European lute with rib thickness of the bowl less than the thickness of the soundboard. (Rib thickness in surviving lutes can be around 1 mm to 1.5 mm thick).
Indian Rosewood has a specific gravity of around 0.76 compared to Black Walnut (0.55), Elm (0.5 to 0.66), American Beech (0.64), Hard Maple (0.46 to 0.63), Ash (0.56 to 0.61). For comparison Spruce has an s.g of 0.4, Larch 0.52 and Ebony 0.90. So, if my guess is correct and the Vine wood sample has a specific gravity in the range 0.5 to 0.6 then this would not be out of place as a wood used in the construction of early ouds whereas Indian Rosewood, Ebony and other dense tropical hardwoods would be considered too heavy.

The heartwood of the vine would be generally used - although the strong colour contrast between heartwood and sapwood might be a useful possibility (like 'shaded' yew ribs in lutes). The sapwood of vine may not be very durable, however.

The question " would there be enough to make an oud with" is probably the most important consideration. I would not question that the early oud makers knew what they were talking about when they list vine wood among the superior woods for oud making but obtaining sufficient vine wood, large enough in diameter and straight in grain from which to make an oud could be a challenge. The biblical reference previously posted implies that it would be difficult enough to find vine wood large enough to make pegs from let alone anything of larger size. This most likely means that an oud made from vine wood would have been a rare instrument indeed - hence "only to be found in the treasury of kings".
The attached images illustrate the dilemma. The tangled, twisted mass of old vine stems (about 2 metres high) is the material that I am interested in investigating. The large diameter stems buried in the middle of this tangle may be large enough and long enough to work with - but could also turn out to be unsuitable. Not only do the stems curve but they also twist. Vines growing up living trees are generally straighter so may be a better choice - if larger diameter stems can be found.

The rib blanks for an early oud with 11 ribs would have measured around 30 inches X 2 inches (760 mm X 50 mm). If the rib blanks were 'sawn on the quarter', this would require a straight section of vine wood at least 4 inches (100 mm) in diameter. However, if the ribs were "slab sawn" a smaller diameter vine wood stem could be used.
The attached sketch illustrates the difference between quarter and slab sawn sections for those unfamiliar with this terminology. Either way the core or pith of the stem is never included. Quarter sawn is the most stable cut as the grain length is minimal and evenly distributed across the rib section (wood shrinks most in the direction of the cross grain - the longer the grain length the greater the shrinkage). I am not sure if slab sawn ribs were ever used on ouds (or lutes) but I do not see why not as long as the cuts are made close to the centre of the stem where the grain direction is still partly on the quarter.

A second sample of vine stem was cut from a different location in the woodlot yesterday. This sample is 'green' (full of sap), about 2 inches (50 mm) in diameter and about 21 years old.
The specific gravity of a piece of the sample - prepared and measured the same way as for the first sample - was calculated, in this green state - to be 0.75. This should reduce significantly as the sample dries out. This sample will also be used to observe how the wood responds to rapid air drying.

Additionally, two sections were prepared - each cut through the core of the stem - in order to examine the sapwood/heartwood. The sapwood when freshly cut was white but is turning to a pale brown colour after exposure to light for a few hours. It will be interesting to see if the entire sapwood areas eventually turn to a uniform brown colouration to match the heartwood. The heartwood is medium brown in colour. In this sample there was evidence of some localised 'heart rot'.
Both sections showed a pronounced 'ray fleck' or 'cross silk' figuring - particularly in the sapwood, as can be seen in the attached image.

According to one observer, grape vine wood is very brittle when dry. This will be another physical characteristic to verify as the wood may also become harder and stronger and more resonant (as well as lighter in weight) when dry - which could be desirable for instrument making.

........ sample 2 was cut on 02 August from a live section of vine growing up a tree. Sample 1 contained mostly heartwood (from a rootstock stem cut at ground level) whereas sample 2 contained a significant proportion of sapwood. It may be that vine "suckers" (like sample 2) contain more sapwood.
Sample 2 was prepared by planing all sides square (dimensions 1.185 X1.354 X5.022 inches) which weighed
99 grams. The sample was left to dry naturally - just to see what happened. Not surprisingly - after 6 days the weight reduced to 78 grams due to moisture loss and the sample split or 'checked' badly as expected. This is a very severe test (even with sustained humidity levels of 70% +) as the sample, being cut on all six sides, suffers very rapid moisture loss from the exposed surfaces. This is not the way to season freshly cut 'green' wood - especially wood with a high sap content like vine!
Another section of the vine was cut through the centre and left to dry over the same period. This section suffered circumferential distortion due to shrinkage along the growth rings but without any radial shrinkage cracks (as seen in the section alongside in the attached image).
This test confirms that the best approach to preparing vine wood will be to cut the vine in Winter - when the sap content is at a minimum level - then to coat the exposed ends of the vine with latex paint or wax (to seal the wood pores and limit moisture loss). To accelerate the 'seasoning' (drying) process without causing cracking - the sections may then be cut through the centre and, temporarily, tied together until seasoning is completed (determined by weighing each section until the weight is stabilised).

I am located just East of Ottawa so it is almost certain that wild grape does grow in the rural areas around the city. As far as I can determine wild grape (several varieties) is native to most parts of the U.S. and Canada. The largest vines would most likely be found in old farm fence lines and woodlots where they have been allowed to grow undisturbed for decades.
Another source of grape vine might be in the wine growing regions of the continent. Cultivated vines on original root stock can be productive for over 100 years so vines of this age would be quite large in diameter. Vines from grafted rootstock last only 40 years or so by comparison although it is likely that most commercial vineyards nowadays will be working with grafted vines to avoid the danger of losses due to viral infection and disease.

For comparison, the attached image shows sample 1 after air drying. It is mostly heartwood and the vine had been severed some time ago so this sample was fairly dry to start with.
The half section of the stem - like sample 2 (but less severe) - shows some convex distortion of the cut surface after drying or seasoning. Annular growth rings are a series of moisture containing cells arranged side by side in circles of increasing diameter for each year of growth. When wood is dried, moisture is lost from the cells which then shrink in size - the more cells in a growth ring the greater the amount of shrinkage of the ring. So the outer growth rings shrink more than the inner growth rings which results in the concave distortion of the cut surface after seasoning.
Half sectioning is a technique that may be used in the seasoning of small diameter logs as it minimises the risk of radial cracking due to built up stresses caused by too rapid drying.

For information and to further illustrate the distortion that occurs due to shrinkage along the grain of the growth rings, the attached image shows another section of sample 2 that was slab cut when 'green' and allowed to air dry. Note the relatively little distortion in the central slice (quarter sawn, short, equal length grain) compared to the outer slices (slab sawn, longer, unequal length grain).
The upper surface of the half section alongside was originally sawn flat when 'green'. Shrinkage is greater along the outer rings than along the shorter, inner rings - hence the curved upper surface after air drying.

Quote <grape vine wood is very brittle when dry>
Now that I have some well dried samples to hand it is time to check this out.

A strip measuring 20mm wide by 140mm long and 2mm thick was prepared from the heartwood of Vinewood sample 1.
It was possible to easily 'cold' bend this strip into almost a circle without the wood fibres fracturing. Far from being brittle the wood is very pliable (but not surprising perhaps, given the sinuous nature of the vine plant). This would make Vinewood a good material for basket making, no doubt, but will it be suitable for making an oud bowl? Much too flexible perhaps?

The next test was to hot bend the strip - with the bending iron at a temperature hot enough to scorch the strip. The strip was easily bent at this temperature to a bow shaped curve of 30mm radius. On cooling, the strip was found to be much harder and stiffer and held its 'set' well without 'spring back'.

For comparison, test strips were prepared from Ash, Yew, Beech, Elm, Maple and Walnut - all woods mentioned as best for either oud or lute bowl making in early texts.
To check the relative pliability of these samples, a strip was held (at each end) between the thumb and forefinger of each hand and forced into a bow shape until it was judged that the strip was about to break. The deflection at the centre of each piece was then measured. Measured deflections were as follows : Ash 38mm; Yew 32mm; Beech 32mm; Elm 29mm; Maple 26mm; Walnut 19mm. Each sample was then hot bent into a bow shape - at scorching temperature - to a radius of 30mm. After cooling, the samples were tested for relative 'stiffness' by pressing each end together and comparing the force required (by 'feel'). The hot bent Vinewood sample was judged to be fairly close in stiffness to the Ash, Yew, Beech and Elm samples. Both Maple and Walnut were harder to hot bend and a lot stiffer after bending.

It is concluded - from these rather rough, subjective trials - that Vinewood, although it is much more pliable than the other wood species under test (when 'cold bent'), became significantly hardened with heat to a degree that would make it viable as a material for oud bowl ribs or staves.
Now to make an oud bowl from the stuff! Next year perhaps - after collecting and seasoning sufficient Vinewood.

jdowning

Congratulations on a well thought out research programme. I admire your persistence immensely.

Thanks for your interest and kind words patheslip.

Yesterday's trials raised a few more questions that need to be addressed.

The hot bent sample of vinewood was tested to destruction by squeezing the open ends of the sample together. It failed by sudden, brittle fracture well before the ends met - so the hot bent sample was a lot harder/stiffer than when it was just air dried and subject to cold bending.

Question 1 - how 'dry' was the vinewood sample under test?
Question 2 - did the scorching of the hot bent vinewood samples result in a hardening of the samples?


To investigate further, the original sample 1 (mainly heartwood) and sample 2 (about half heartwood/ half sapwood) were oven dried to remove any residual moisture after a few weeks of air drying. At the same time a second strip of heartwood (from sample 1) was prepared for testing - to be oven dried together with the test samples #1 and#2.
Oven drying of the samples (and the second test strip) was undertaken in a microwave oven (when my wife was absent!). Set at 60% power for 1 minute periods, drying was repeated until the measured weight of each sample became stable and uniform - at which point each sample was assumed to be 'bone dry' or devoid of moisture.

When freshly cut, the initial measured moisture content of sample 1 was about 29% and about 55% for the 'green' sample 2. After 20 days air drying, with relative humidity levels fairly constant at around 70% +, the moisture content of sample 1 had dropped to around 12% which was the moisture content yesterday of the first test strip prior to hot bending.

The 'bone dry' second test strip was found to be just as pliable as the partially air dried vinewood strip in yesterday's trial - from which it may be concluded that complete moisture removal alone does not result in vinewood becoming less pliable or hardened. It was the scorching heat applied during the hot bending process that 'tempered' or hardened the vinewood.

Flame hardening of wood is a technology used by "primitive" early civilizations to harden sharpened wooden arrow and spear heads (a method still recommended in USA army survival manuals).

The attached image shows the brittle fracture failure of the hot bent vinewood sample of yesterday and the pliability of the 'bone dry' oven dried second test strip of today - for comparison.

The oven dried samples now provide data from which to
re- calculate the specific gravity of vine wood - to follow next.

As Fall (Autumn) is now upon us, and the leaves are falling, I have decided to cut some of the more interesting wild grape vine stock from my wood lot at the same time as I cull dead wood that will be fuel for heating this winter.
The most promising stock is vine that has grown vertically, on a host tree, to produce relatively straight, twist free growth. Some of this stock is curved but I hope to be able to straighten this and make it viable, during the natural drying process - given the pliability of vine wood while still 'green'.
The vine wood samples in the attached image ranges from 2 inches (50cm) in diameter to over 6 inches (15 cm) in diameter (!).

The largest diameter root stock (6 inches/15 cm) in the first sample collection is, sadly, useless for instrument making but may be useful for study in obtaining a greater understanding about vine wood in general. This root stock is badly fissured (radial splits) and, while still alive when cut, is suffering significant heart rot. In other words, this stock is at the end of its life cycle. Most dramatically, the vine is twisted, beautifully, like a rope.
I shall section, and determine the age of this sample after preliminary drying.

The largest diameter vine stem has been sectioned and planed smooth to reveal the annual growth rings. A ring count indicates that the age of of the stem is about 60 years - estimating the rotted out section of the stem as representing about 10 years of growth.
The reference scale in the attached image of the sectioned stem is 6 inches/ 15 cm.
Comparing ring counts with the smaller diameter
(2 inch/5.0 cm - 20 years old) vine samples confirms a growth rate of about 10 years per inch of stem diameter for wild vine grown in this locality.

The freshly cut 3 inch diameter stem was cut 48 hours ago and the cut ends painted with latex primer. Yesterday I noticed that the primer had not dried. Cutting the stock into "straight" sections for converting into rib stock (hopefully!), the sap suddenly started to flow from the cut ends with a steady 'drip'. Left overnight, with the cut lengths stacked vertically to allow drainage of the sap, the copious sap flow has congealed into a 'jelly like' consistency as shown in the attached image.
Not sure what is going on here but it may be that this is some kind of protective mechanism by vine wood to seal broken stems and ensure continued healthy growth. Perhaps, artificially, sealing the cut ends, in this case, may not be necessary? So, although grapevine essentially has the cell structure of a wood it is also 'plant like' (i.e. not 'tree like') in some ways. However, note that some species of wood like sycamore (a kind of soft maple) when freshly cut - the boards must be initially stacked vertically to accelerate (presumably) initial sap drainage to minimise undesirable staining of the wood due to retention of the high sugar content sap of the species.
Once this excessive sap flow has ceased, the relatively 'dry' cut ends will be re-coated with latex primer to seal against further rapid moisture loss to minimise checking.
Nobody said that this was going to be easy!!

Before I forget - for some unknown reason (to me) this seems to have been a very bad year for wild grape on my property with hardly any fruit in evidence. Not sure if this will have any bearing on this investigation but worth noting nevertheless.

Once the vine stems have been cut to the required length, drained of sap and the partially dried cut ends coated with latex primer, they will be left to dry further under cover for a couple of weeks or so.

The strategy for cutting the stems into slabs for seasoning into rib blanks will be first to cut each stem in half longitudinally - following the irregular grain direction as closely as possible. This means, for example, that stems that are curved will be cut in a curve. The curved strips will then be straightened out, during the seasoning process, by placing them under load in a drying frame. More on this later.
Any soft pith in the centre of the half sections will be cut away at this stage to reduce the risk of heart shakes developing (radial cracks caused by too rapid drying starting from the central pith).
The attached image shows an example of heart shake in one of the vine samples described earlier in this thread. This sample is a stem 2 inches (50 mm) in diameter and about 20 years old. The crack is about 8 mm long radially and extends only about 13 mm deep into the stem from the cut end - so is not as serious at might first appear. This stem had been allowed to air dry without any coating being applied to the cut ends - so has dried a little too rapidly. An end coating applied at the start of the drying process would most likely have prevented or minimised this fault.

As noted in an earlier posting, if a horizontal slab is sawn through a section of vine when it is 'green' and then allowed to air dry, the slab will dry, naturally, into a curved profile. This is because the wood shrinks (in section) along the 'grain' of the growth rings - the longer the grain length, the greater the degree of shrinkage. This can be seen in the attached upper image of a slab sawn section from one of the samples previously posted. This example is a typical slab sawn section with most of the grain running - more or less - across the width of the slab.
Cutting the vine stock in this manner, while still 'green', will further minimise the risk of checking or cracking of the section during the drying or seasoning process by reducing the stresses involved.
In order to saw rib stock from the slabs, after drying is complete, allowance has to be made for this predictable distortion of the wood. The lower image shows how rib blanks may be sawn from the dry but distorted slab - the upper and lower curved surfaces first being planed level and the dressed slab then being sawn in two (if there is sufficient material thickness remaining). In this case (for a 2 inch diameter vine stem) a slab initially measuring about 1/2 inch (12 mm) in thickness when 'green' should be sufficient to provide two rib blanks of adequate width and thickness when sawn. This equates to four rib blanks per stem. Larger diameter stems should provide even more rib blanks of greater or equal width.
Note that rib blanks cut in this manner would have a grain direction somewhere between 'slab' and the 'quarter' sawn ideal.
So, this is the planned strategy for dealing with small diameter vine stems. Time will tell if it succeeds or fails!

The wild vine collected so far has been cut into lengths of about 28 inches (72 cm) and the loose fibrous bark stripped off. Stripping the bark revealed hidden severe faults in some of the vine samples like deep fissures and extreme twisting. Also, many of the samples suffered from heart rot. All of these faults make the wood useless - well, only good for burning.

Of all the samples collected, the 3 inch diameter stems are the most promising but less than ideal as none of these are straight grained but curve and twist to a certain extent. In light of this, I have decided to slab cut these sections along an 'average' two dimensional plane which means that the sections cut from this stock will be curved. However, as oud ribs taper from end to end, I am hopeful that - given the width of the sawn stock (3 inches max.) - that there will be sufficient scope to produce ribs of adequate dimensions from this curved
slab cut stock.
The 3 inch stems are still very 'green' so I do not want to leave them in this state for very long before re-sawing them into slabs for drying (seasoning), in order to reduce the risk of checking (splitting of the wood).
To re-saw the stems, a simple carriage was built to hold the stem safely and securely while being sawn in a bandsaw. My carriage was made from a piece of scrap 3/8 inch (10 mm) thick plywood screwed to a 3/4 X 2 inch wide (19mm X 50mm) pine base. All very 'rough and ready' but good enough for the job.
Each section of vine stock was mounted in the carriage in a vertical plane (all done 'by eye' - a 'judgement call' for each piece) and then cut in three pieces by making a central cut on each side of the heart of the stem - about 1/2 inch(13 mm) thick.
The attached image shows a stem firmly secured to the carriage (with short, drywall screws) in the process of being re-sawn on the bandsaw.

The attached image shows the stem cut into three pieces ready for seasoning.
The grain pattern of this stuff is - well - 'wild'!!
Interesting times ahead.

Mais part 1

Parrt 2

Nothing is wasted Samir. If it can be proven that Dr Farmer had mis-interpreted the original manuscript and incorrectly identified 'mais' as vine wood, then this may be important progress in researching the history of the oud that otherwise may never have come to light. As ALAMI has indicated, positive identification of the woods described by the authors of these centuries old texts may be difficult, if not impossible, to determine with certainty today. Not that we should not try. So, Farmer may still be correct - but, nevertheless, I think that ALAMI's alternative interpretation is convincing. All 'grist to the mill' in the quest for historical truth!

As for the vinewood I intend to press on in preparing my collected samples for use, after seasoning, as the wood - even if eventually proven not to have been used in early ouds - is sufficiently interesting in its own right to warrant continuing further investigation.

ALAMI has suggested that the 'mais tree' might be a species of the hackberry tree. The attached image shows some characteristics of the hackberry tree (Canadian) that may help in positive identification of the tree elsewhere. Grid scale is
1 inch or 25.4 mm

The attached macro images of American Elm (Ulmus americana) may help further in identifying Hackberry (Celtis occidentalis) which has a very similar cell structure to the Elm family of woods. Elm and Hackberry are identified by the characteristic wavy bands of the latewood cells (the small diameter cells). This arrangement cells is known as ulmiform, from Ulmus (elm).
The earlywood cells (the large ones) in the American elm sample shown here are characteristically arranged, more or less, in a single row whereas in hackberry the early wood is more than one pore wide - as also found in Slippery Elm (Ulmus rubra). Both hackberry and elm are ring-porous woods.
To distinguish between hackberry and elm, the heartwood of hackberry is coloured cream to light brown or yellowish grey whereas the elm heartwood is brown to reddish brown. Also in hackberry the radial 'rays' can be up to 10-12 cells wide with some always wider than 7 cells whereas in elm the largest rays are generally 4-5 cells wide but never wider than 7 cells.
(Information from 'Identifying Wood' by Bruce Hoadley)

This image shows the cell size of the American Elm sample - the reference scale is in millimeters.

For information, this sample of elm is from my woodlot. It is a very common tree subject unfortunately to elm disease that kills a number of elms each year. I burn a lot of small diameter dead elm for winter stove wood. Larger trees (up to 30 inches or 76 cm in diameter) may be slab cut with a portable chainsaw mill into boards 2 inches or more in thickness for air drying and use as timber. I have quite a quantity that has been drying for years. So the good news is that I have plenty of elm from which to select rib stock for making early oud replicas - if we can be reasonably sure that this wood may have been used in the past.

As for confirming that the Mais tree in the images posted by ALAMI is a species of Hackberry, it will be necessary first to obtain a sample of the wood (a piece of a small diameter branch or twig) and examine the grain structure with a 10X magnifying lens. Also to examine the leaves, fruit and bark.

To prepare wood specimens for examination of the cell structure I simply smooth the cross grain section with a sharp, low blade angle plane to produce a clean cut. For small sections of wood a single edge razor blade may also be used to produce a clean cut across the grain. The images were taken with a Canon A470 digital camera. This is described as an "Entry Level" camera but is sophisticated and versatile and relatively low cost (around $130). One, of many reasons that I chose this model was because of its super macro, close up facility as evident in the images posted. The posted image files have been considerably compressed in size so some detail and crispness of the original images has been lost.

The last stage of preparing the vine wood samples for seasoning is to 'sticker' each three piece section. 'Stickering' means placing strips between each cut layer to allow air to circulate and allow drying of the wood. Each length of vinewood stem has been 'stickered' with strips of spruce about 3mm thick at each end and in the centre and the whole lot bound tightly together with three double loops of 14 gauge wire tensioned - like a tourniquet - with a metal rod.
The sections will now be stored in a granary loft to dry over the coming winter period.
This is a seasoning method that might be used for small diameter logs of other wood species.

Thank you for your kind words ALAMI. I also have learned a lot since joining the forum and will continue to do so thanks to the interest of contributing members. It is a pleasant and fulfilling journey of discovery for me. So the sentiments are very much reciprocal. Thank you!
My first oud (or two) will be a recreation of a medieval oud (from the 'woodcut') - based upon the best research data currently available - thanks to this wonderful forum. Subject of a new topic for next year.
Just for information, a slight diversion mentioned earlier in this thread and while on the subject of identifying wood species by cell structure - the damaged pegbox backplate of the old oud that I am currently (very slowly!) restoring - that I thought might be Mahogany - has been microscopically examined and compared to the data and images in Bruce Hoadley's book. This is a very small sample (about 2 mm thick) and I am an absolute beginner (but eager to learn) in this fascinating field of wood identification. The backplate would seem to be very close in cell structure to 'Central American Mahogany' (Swietenia spp) as defined by Hoadley.
The attached image of the end grain of the back plate has been rotated so that the radial rays are vertical. Not the clearest of images but note the distinctive tangential rings and cells containing dried red gum deposits which may distinguish this from African Mahogany (Khaya spp)

For information and comparison - now that 'Ash' may be a possibility - the attached images show the end grain cell structure of a sample of White Ash (Fraxinus americana) from my woodlot (the top image) and Black Ash (Fraxinus nigra) recovered from a floor joist in a demolished local building built during the 19th C.
Ash is a ring porous species - like Elm/Hackberry - and is quite similar to the latter two species in cell structure except that it does not have the distinctive 'ulmiform' wave pattern of the latewood cells (although the white ash latewood cells do, somewhat vaguely, join together, in wavy bands.
I would expect that 'Flowering Ash' (Fraxinus ornus L) would have a similar cell structure to White/Black Ash.

As an aside, I am very pleased with the macro image capability of this, relatively low cost, Canon A470 digital camera (one of my latest technical 'toys') - that can be used (among many other things, including video image recording) as a low power digital microscope. It can see details that I, in old age, now longer can - even with a optical 10X lens.

Continuing with more (compressed) macro images of the cell structure of woods mentioned in this thread - just for information and comparison - here is an example of European Beech wood (Fagus grandifolia).
Beech (and Sycamore) are classified as "Diffuse- Porous" woods. The pores are small and in irregular multiples and clusters evenly distributed throughout most of the growth ring.

Note that my set up for taking these these digital images is quite 'rough and ready' - the camera simply being pressed firmly to my work bench and aligned to the specimen by eye, allowing the camera on 'auto' to undertake proper exposure, focus etc. - less than ideal for macro photography where focus is critical due to lack of depth of field. Also, preparation of the specimens is less than ideal - simply using a sharp plane to prepare the wood section is fairly inaccurate. So, in these images scratch marks are in evidence as well as some extraneous fibers from paper towels used to wipe the prepared surfaces. However, although they do not compare in clarity to the photos in the Hoadley book - they, nevertheless give a pretty good idea of of the typical cell structure of each wood species.

Walnut - in this case Black Walnut (Juglans nigra). Walnut is classified as Semi-Ring-Porous with fairly large early wood cells decreasing gradually to quite small latewood cells. Black Walnut is very similar to the European variety (Juglans regia) except that the latter is usually lighter in colour and lacks the pore size contrast of Black Walnut.

East India Rosewood (Dalbergia latifolia) - classified as 'Diffuse-Porous" with variable sized cells, large and small, irregularly distributed. Growth rings indistinct.

Watching a TV program on New Year's Eve about the great Egyptian pyramid builder Sneferu, first pharaoh of the fourth dynasty (2613 BC to 2589 BC) I was interested to note that surviving inside Sneferu's less than successful "Bent Pyramid" are some original timbers supporting the cracked ceiling of one of the chambers. The commentator said that the timbers - over 4000 years old - had come from southern Lebanon.
On investigation, one reliable source confirmed that the timbers were cedar wood and that there were also fragments of a cedar coffin inside the pyramid.

When ALAMI posted two possible alternative woods to Farmer's 'Vine' - Hackberry and Cedar of Lebanon - I was less than diligent in looking into cedar as I assumed that the woods referred to by Farmer were all hardwoods used for making oud bowls - which discounted cedar as a possibility in my mind. However, checking Dr Farmer's translation again there is no such specific use mentioned - so the woods mentioned by him might be either soundboard woods or bowl woods.

Further research revealed that, Sneferu, from an inscription on the 'Palermo Stone', tells of importing 40 shipments of cedar logs from Lebanon (i.e. the forests on Mount Lebanon) for making ships and the doors of his royal palace. The Egyptians believed that cedar wood represented eternal life. Cedar resin and sawdust was used in the mummification process for their kings.

Phoenician king Hiram of Tyre provided cedar logs from Mount Lebanon for the building of the famous temples and palaces of David and his son Solomon - kings of Judah and Israel - structures with cedar columns, support beams and wall and ceiling panelling. The altar of Solomon's temple (completed in 960 BC) was made from cedar. A main room in one of his palaces was named "The Hall of the Forest of Lebanon".

The recently excavated royal tomb, supposed to be that of Midas, king of Phrygia (late 8th C) at Gordion in Turkey is built in part of cedar logs and contains a coffin carved from a huge cedar log.

Following a military invasion of Syria, Shalmaneser III (9th C BC) demanded tributes from one prince to be paid in part with two hundred cedar logs. Another prince had to provide two hundred cedar logs and one hundred cedar logs each year thereafter. A third prince was required to supply three hundred cedar logs annually.
King Sargon II (late 8th C) regarded cedar timber as a valid taxation payment.

So, the Cedar of Mount Lebanon was a very valuable wood in ancient times - both from a religious and spiritual point of view as well as one that might easily be found in "the treasury of kings" because of its monetary value.
Not only that, but until fairly recently, Cedar of Lebanon was widely used as a soundboard wood for ouds. Sadly, the Cedars are now in serious decline, a threatened species - victim of over harvesting and other poor forestry practices as well as environmental pressures.

Given this information, of the three condenders - Vine, Hackberry and Cedar of Lebanon (Cedrus libani), I would now rank cedar as the most likely translation of 'Mais'.

Cedar of Lebanon is a fairly heavy softwood with a specific gravity of about 0.52. Interestingly Farmer translates 'Sharbin' as 'Larch' wood, an oud soundboard wood mentioned by
14th C writer Ibn al-Tahhan. Larch is also a heavy softwood with a specific gravity of about 0.52. More dense soundboard woods would imply thinner soundboards than those made from spruce most commonly used on ouds today.

For completeness the attached macro images show the transverse cell structure of Cedrus libani. (source 'Manual of Traditional Wood Carving', Paul N. Hasluck, 1911, Dover Publication reprint and 'Nitrogen Cycling by Wood Decomposing Soft-rot Fungi in the King Midas Tomb, Gordion, Turkey', 2001, by Filley, Blanchette, Simpson and Fogel).

Presumably, Cedar of Lebanon, of a quality suitable for making soundboards, is no longer available? If anyone knows of a reliable source - let us all know!

mr jdowning you are an encyclopedia!!!
i always like to learn from you!!

Thanks for your interest!

This reminded me to check progress with the seasoning of the vine wood stems. The stems have been 'stickered', bound with wire and stored for the past 4 months in a dry unheated loft with good air circulation.
From the images it can be seen that in spite of sub zero winter conditions the wood has dried fairly rapidly - which seems to be a characteristic of vine wood.

The small diameter stems that were split in half before drying show the typical problem of cracks starting from the core or pith of the sample. The pith of a log should always be cut away before seasoning to avoid this problem.
The larger diameter stems that were cut in three parts, with the pith isolated in the central section, show little degradation due to drying.

This is just for interest as it is unlikely that the vine now will be used for building an oud - but we will see how the wood looks after being cut into veneer slabs.

The vine samples have now been seasoning for 17 months but the results are not promising - the wood twisting and bending as it dries even when constrained - the forces generated being sufficient to break the binding wires. So there is no hope of being able to cut the wood into veneer for instrument work.

On the other hand, one sample was cut into veneer of
about 2 mm thickness and the bundle clamped between two flat boards to dry. On being released from the clamping pressure after 17 months, the veneers are flat - so could possibly be made into oud ribs. However, based on the results of these trials, I do not think that it is worthwhile continuing further with this investigation into vine wood as a material for instrument work
As a final test and to take the evening chill off the air, the vine samples were fed to the wood stove - with good effect.
"Vine wood is only good for burning" the author of Ezekiel in the Old Testament tells us (Chapter 15). How true.
So, here endeth the lesson!!