Astrophysicist - 4-10-2009 at 04:31 AM
Hello friends,
I am posting you my favorite rendition of Salih Dede's Ussak Saz Semai. It is a trully amazing version! I think it is being played, aside from
percussion and a bass or a cello, by a lavta and a violin. I found it on e-mule about a year ago with a filename which indicates its track order, "04
-Salih Dede Ussak Saz semai.mp3". Having only that information I couldnt go much further. Does anyone knows by chance who the players are and
also what's the title of the album? They play the semai so beautifully that I really want to find out the name of the soloists.
please help!
http://rapidshare.com/files/219662490/04_-Salih_Dede_Ussak_Saz_sema...
Thanks,
George.
P.S.I can also hear some "clicks" as if it was recorded from an LP. But who are they????
maran - 4-10-2009 at 10:41 AM
wow you are right, that is beautiful. esp. the violin
adamgood - 4-10-2009 at 11:21 PM
Hey that's really interesting I've never heard it before, nice instrumentation and arrangement. I'm also very surprised that there are clicks and pops
like it's from an LP, I'm sure it is. Could have been recorded in the mid to late 80s?
Definitely acoustic/upright bass with violin and percussion but for sure not a Lavta to my ears. There are some sympathetic strings ringing?!?!? What
the heck is it for an instrument? I would say there are frets like a lavta.
And call me silly but doesn't the violinist kind of have some Greek style tendencies rather Turkish?
Hmmm did Ross Daly ever put out LPs??
Reda Aouad - 4-11-2009 at 05:54 AM
It is an awesome recording. Sympathetic strings most probably.. but they are annoying 
Other than that.. very good arrangement.. appealing mood and soft playing.
teslim - 4-11-2009 at 08:03 AM
this is from an old recording of ross daly..i believe the violin sound you are hearing is la lyra..you can email ross for specifics...
Astrophysicist - 4-12-2009 at 06:48 AM
A beautiful recording indeed...
Yes, Adam, about the high harmonics effect of the violin sound, it is a very common stylistic signature of our island players. Any other clues?
Teslim, I also had a suspicion on the sound of the violin being actually a lyra but many people who listened to this recording were enough confindent
to call it a "violin"...strange, but there is something else even more strange.. the identity of the "plucked instrument"..! Are you sure about Ross's
involvement? I could have think of it too, he likes sympathetic strings a lot.
George.
Reda Aouad - 4-12-2009 at 06:50 AM
Have a look at this meanwhile 
http://www.atlasofpluckedinstruments.com/
Astrophysicist - 4-12-2009 at 06:56 AM
Thanky Reda
The question remains unanswered though...
teslim - 4-20-2009 at 01:56 PM
i believe the plucked instrument is an afghani rebab... the pitch of the tonic you mentioned could be determined by the instruments used...sometimes
I will have an unusual tonic because the instrument I am using sounds best in that key...has nothing to do what is "standard" turkish keys...
adamgood - 4-20-2009 at 02:16 PM
Teslim, I wondered that too also since Ross Daly plays this instrument? One thing though Afghan rebab doesn't typically have frets does it? Whatever
this is on the recording sounds fretted to me.
teslim - 4-20-2009 at 06:13 PM
adam...the rebab that ross plays has frets...the first four or five are tied nylon or gut and the higher ones are thin plastic glued on the neck...
Astrophysicist - 4-20-2009 at 06:39 PM
The plucked instrument sounds fretted to my ears too...Rebab is fretted, as Teslim pointed out, it certainly has sympathetic strings (usually 13) and
the overall sound of it resembles to that of the ud (the tuning is in 4ths too). It is also true what Teslim said about the mean tuning of that kind
of instruments. The players tend to tune to a key that the instrument radiates its sound best. It is not a new fashion, it is something happening
constantly throughout history. So, if this is all about a rebab and it is tuned that way, then my first question is probably answered. If it is
something else, less 'exotic', it must compensate with turkish tuning standards - thats what Adam told us before; maybe it was recorded directly from
a faster-than-normal revolving turntable, sharpening the pitch from E (normal turkish Ussak tonic) to F (what we hear).
Have a look at my post on the question relative to the F Ussak playing possibility:
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=9085&pa...
Reda Aouad - 4-20-2009 at 07:17 PM
May I just ask you how you are sure about the frets? Sympathetics strings are obvious.. but about those frets of the plucked instrument.. is it just
that the notes are rigid? I wouldn't have guessed it without you mentioning it.. and it is still not clear.
Astrophysicist - 4-20-2009 at 07:46 PM
Reda, I began with a speculation on the plucked instrument; I found the sound rigid and bright enough to name it a lavta-now started thinking of it as
a Rebab. But to be honest, it doesn't sounds to me that way all the time in the recording. There are moments in time I can call it an ud and there are
other moments I think I hear a "fretted" sound. I hear an interchange of what I described you, throughout the piece.
I thought that there would be a debate, more likely on the sound of the bowed instrument, whether it is a violin or not, than on the sound of the
plucked. To my surprise, the opposite occurs!
George.
Astrophysicist - 4-21-2009 at 01:19 PM
Teslim, are you sure about ross daly's involvement? According to his official homepage, in the discography section, there is a work of him called
"Naghma" (it is not clear if it is a cd or LP) in which he plays the Rebab and the Lyra along with a Santur player and a Sitar player. It contains a
track named "Saz Semai", but it is the 2nd track (the file I posted claims to be a "4th track") and there is not a violin neither an upright bass
featuring in the work. Clearly, thats not the case... I looked to the other works catalogued in his discography page, but there isn't something
looking promising enough ...
George.
Jack_Campin - 5-22-2009 at 02:43 PM
I thought the bowed thing was a yayli tanbur.
ussak saz semai
teslim - 5-28-2009 at 06:48 AM
I believe this is from an old Ross Daly album called labryinth that is now out of print as far as I know.You could email ross for all the details ,
he is very generous and extremely helpful..there is a video of the same piece played by ross and kelly on you tube under ussak saz semai..ross daly
and kelly thoma...all the best
spartan - 6-2-2009 at 12:30 AM
This samai is from a cd called "Microcosmos" with Ross Daly and his group Labyrinth.
Ross plays tarhu ( a strange bowed intrument) in this piece. You can also hear Persian santur and tombak .
Beautiful piece anyway .
It will be very interesting if any of our members here perform this samai on the oud....
Astrophysicist - 7-22-2009 at 10:06 AM
thank you guys for your interest.
I'll have the opportunity to ask Ross himself in a few days, as I will attend Yurdal Tokcan's seminar on Turkish Ud!
Looking forward to meet you there,
George.