joseph - 4-25-2009 at 03:25 AM
Hi,
This is slightly off topic, as it does not relate specifically to the oud, although it relates to Arabic music in general. I wrote the article in the
attached document, and then I didn't quite know where to publish it, and I hope to get some feedback here.
For a while now, I've been wondering why there isn't a piano type instrument that would be suitable to play Arabic music without losing too much of
the beauty of the music. I couldn't find any existing instrument whose design I like, so I wrote this as a suggestion of what one possible design
might be. I don't play keyboard instruments, and it is beyond me to carry this any further and build a prototype, so I'm hoping that by leaving this
as a suggestion, it might trigger others that are more familiar and capable in this area, to build on the idea and take it further, and/or to provide
some feedback on how it could be improved.
By the way, the article is written for a general audience that is not assumed to be familiar with Arabic music, so if you are interested and want to
read the attached file, you might want to skip quickly over the introductory sections, and go to the description of the instrument and diagrams
towards the end.
Thanks, Joseph
ALAMI - 5-2-2009 at 02:21 PM
Hi Joseph,
In case you're not aware of this, I thought it may interest you
An oriental piano was invented by Abdallah Chahine in the early 1950s and it was manufactured by Hoffman - Vienna.
The full story:
http://www.musimem.com/chahine-eng.htm
Brian Prunka - 5-2-2009 at 04:53 PM
Alami, that's fascinating. Anyone have any recordings? It seems he recorded an album of taqasim . . .
this is all I cold find: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x87ldw_angham-mina-echarkc_music
DaveH - 5-5-2009 at 01:58 AM
Geoff Smith built a "fluid tuning" piano quite recently, with non-western musics in mind.
http://www.dulcimer.co.uk/biog.htm
I'm not quite sure how this differs from the older example Alami cites, but I remember seeing a few news stories at the time, for example, this one:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2003/feb/01/arts.artsnews1
This article might be overstating its importance a bit ("splitting the atom"), but as I understand it, each note can be altered by a range of
intervals as you play - kind of like the levers on a qanun, but with more fine control over the microtones.
DaveH - 5-5-2009 at 02:16 AM
Now I read your article, I see you're talking about a digital piano. Somehow I still prefer the idea of doing it on a mechanical piano, even though
it's more technically difficult.
It does seem to me though that it would be very difficult on a piano (mechanical or digital) to beat the intuitive and continuous control you get with
an oud. Most solutions will always involve a separate action to "set up" the note before you strike it - something which experienced players will be
able to do automatically, but which to my mind still puts another layer of thinking in the music and therefore detracts from spontaneity.
If you did go digital, one thing I was wondering with modern touchpad technology was whether it would be feasible to alter the intonation depending on
where you strike the key - further in for a sharper note, further out for flatter.
joseph - 5-5-2009 at 07:06 AM
Hi,
I'm glad to return to this post and find some really interesting comments.
Thanks ALami for the fascinating link. I heard sometime ago that someone in Lebanon had a piano that could play quarter tones, but that's all I know,
so it's great to learn more about it, and like Brian, I would really love to hear it, if there are available CDs.
Thanks Dave also for the link for the Dulcimer link. I found the article full of praise but short on detail, but it seems that it is a variation on
the programmable scales that are already done with the synthesizers if I've read it correctly.
I think the idea of this instrument is not meant as a replacement to the oud, and I never thought about that. I would still play the oud -). I
wouldn't call the oud control intuitive either. It wasn't when I started learning it. this instrument is more really like the Kanun, and I mention in
the article why you might want t o have this instrument in addition to the kanun, which is the cost and complexity of the kanun that puts a limit on
wide adoption. Perhaps such an instrument if it could be built cheaply, could be a gateway to learning the kanun for those that cannot afford one. The
idea is also not related to digital pianos as such, and I would really love it, if it could be done with an acoustic type piano, but I mentioned
digital only because I thought the implementation would is easier. As far as keyboards that allow continuous controls, I think it is already been
invented. Have a look at this Continuum instruments in this link.
http://www.cerlsoundgroup.org/Continuum/
But my criticism of all the designs above in relation to Arabic music is really focused on two things: unnecessary complexity or they compromise
Arabic music too much.
Or let's say these designs are trying to solve different problems : like how do I play Western as well as Arabic music on a piano instrument, and then
you would come up with the solution that Abdallah Shahine had. Or the problem could be : how I can play any possible scale of any intervals and you
would have a solution like the Continuum for example, or say, the dulcimer instrument.
But I thought someone should address the question of how would you design a piano or keyboard that is specific and aimed mainly at traditional Arabic
music or modern Arabic music that is a development of traditional forms? It is interesting that the more I thought about it, it seemed to me that
all these solutions of extra keys and extra keyboards and programmable scales are overkill, and that the solution was already there in the way the
kanun is designed, and all that needs to be done is to adapt it to a keyboard instrument. If you do that you'll have less playing keys not more than
a traditional/Western piano. Remember that the control keys don't add to the complexity in the way that playing keys do, since modulations in
traditional music happen infrequently.
I also don't agree that Arabic music cannot be played on digital instruments. The buzuq and kanun are digital in a way, and no one thinks that they
shouldn't be played. I do however think that if some one ever builds an instrument like the one I describe, they are not distracted by gimmicks since
there isn't any in the design, and focus on how you could make an instrument like this that works for Arabic music and simply produces a beautiful
sound.
samzayed - 5-5-2009 at 06:44 PM
In the process of learning more about MIDI, I came across this gizmo http://www.h-pi.com/TBX1intro.html
SO I think it looks like you can fine tune your MIDI instrument to the precise nuances of the various Maqams. I am interested in getting it
someday...
joseph - 5-6-2009 at 05:05 AM
Hi Samzayed,
Yes, I mentioned this right at the end of the article, and there is an interesting demonstration of it at this microtonal composer's site, which is
worth visiting:
http://danielthompson.blogspot.com/
I think these microtonal instrument may prove to be more relevant to Arabic music than existing keyboards, but I hope there will be a solution one day
that addresses specific Arabic music needs.
Cheers
Joseph
samzayed - 5-6-2009 at 08:48 AM
Hi Joseph, I just looked at your article and the blog. Many thanks for these posts!
From what I know of existing keyboards, the GEM unit http://www.maqam.com/gem-keyboards-as1.html simply splits the interval down the middle to get the misnomer called "quarter tone".
So for the same price, the TBX unit seems more powerful, so you can create settings for Rast and Bayati, each with its own variation for the E
microtone. On the TBX site, there are files you can download that represents each maqam. However, I haven't gotten a chance to dig deep in that
stuff yet...
What interests me in Arabic music and MIDI is not so much to use the cheesy arabic samples that are built within arabic keyboards, but to use other
MIDI virtual instruments to develop my own compositions using traditional maqams
bibo10 - 5-6-2009 at 07:44 PM
oh wow there is alot into this..are you an electrical engineer??
joseph - 5-8-2009 at 08:51 PM
Hi Samzayed,
Yes, I agree that the TBX unit looks more promising, and I too have the same interest in keyboard, as a method for education and composition, and I am
not interested in the current gimmicky sounds.
Hi Michael,
Thanks. Interesting question.
I did study Electrical Engineering many years ago, but I never really practiced it for long (I do work as a programmer though), so not a bad guess! If
I was a proper Engineer though, I would be able to build the instrument myself, but I can't, since I forgot most of what I learned. The concept is not
really that complicated. It is just an adaptation of the Kanun into a keyboard. Thanks for your interest in looking at my article.
Cheers, Joseph
Fluid Piano
DaveH - 11-23-2009 at 01:54 AM
Just thought I'd revive this thread as I came across this video:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/video/2009/nov/22/fluid-piano-class...
Still don't think it's quite as much of a 'quantum leap' as claimed, but it's a nice video and gives a better idea of how the fluid piano works.