Mike's Oud Forums

Building my first oud (Turkish)

Yaron Naor - 6-15-2009 at 12:49 AM

Hi all,
I am a guitar builder from Israel, resently I started to build my first Oud (Turkish) I will update with some images as the project move forword...
Thank you all,
Yaron Naor.

Some Sckeches of the template/mold

The Mold with the gluing clamps mechanism

Tail block gauge

The strip (will be 19 strips)


good luck

muthada - 6-15-2009 at 02:37 PM

im sure it will be greate one;)

Yaron Naor - 6-15-2009 at 11:35 PM

Thanks! :)

nasrudinjeh - 6-26-2009 at 04:33 PM

I'm down with muthada, Yaron - if I could build somerthing that looked even .0005 percent as good as your rough sketches, I'd be flying. The form you've built is exquisite, and the gauge block you seem to have invented looks like a very interesting approach. Please keep us posted on yoour adcenture unfolds. Meanwhile I wish you and yours all the best from Canada...
Shabbat shalom,
nasrudinjeh

Benjamin - 6-27-2009 at 01:54 AM

Looks good already! Good luck man, update us on it!
Lekh 'al ze gever!

The first strip is on!

Yaron Naor - 6-27-2009 at 10:11 AM




Yaron Naor - 6-27-2009 at 10:15 AM

Quote: Originally posted by nasrudinjeh  
I'm down with muthada, Yaron - if I could build somerthing that looked even .0005 percent as good as your rough sketches, I'd be flying. The form you've built is exquisite, and the gauge block you seem to have invented looks like a very interesting approach. Please keep us posted on yoour adcenture unfolds. Meanwhile I wish you and yours all the best from Canada...
Shabbat shalom,
nasrudinjeh


Thanks a lot! ;)

Yaron Naor - 6-27-2009 at 10:16 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Benjamin  
Looks good already! Good luck man, update us on it!
Lekh 'al ze gever!



;) Thanks man.

Mike - 6-27-2009 at 08:16 PM

Dear Yaron,

Thanks for sharing your project with us. I look forward to following it all the way through.

Best,
Mike

Thanks!

Yaron Naor - 6-27-2009 at 11:42 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Mike  
Dear Yaron,

Thanks for sharing your project with us. I look forward to following it all the way through.

Best,
Mike


Thank you Mike for your welcoming and kind words, promise to update on this project till the finish…
Yaron.

Clayton - 6-28-2009 at 09:05 PM

Eze gever!:applause:
Looking great...
I would love to see some picts of your guitars as well.
Keep up the great work and I am looking forward to watching this build.
-Clayton

Another strip and special clams...

Yaron Naor - 6-29-2009 at 01:52 PM

[file]11248[/file] [file]11250[/file] [file]11252[/file]

Marina - 6-30-2009 at 03:56 AM

Good luck!

Historical Instruments - 6-30-2009 at 10:58 PM

Good Luck...

Thank you all for your belssing

Yaron Naor - 7-1-2009 at 12:36 AM

After Clamping
[file]11254[/file]

Dr. Oud - 7-1-2009 at 08:40 AM

nice looking mold, however, the tail block looks very thick and heavy. I woul suggest making the tail block support of your mold like the neck block support - so that the tail block outside surface is shaped to match the compound curve of the bowel and tapers to a thin edge, and not more than 9 or 10mm thick at the top edge.

Emir - 7-1-2009 at 12:16 PM

Good Luck Yaron,
i look forward to seeing new photos

Yaron Naor - 7-2-2009 at 12:28 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Dr. Oud  
nice looking mold, however, the tail block looks very thick and heavy. I woul suggest making the tail block support of your mold like the neck block support - so that the tail block outside surface is shaped to match the compound curve of the bowel and tapers to a thin edge, and not more than 9 or 10mm thick at the top edge.


Thanks Richard for you visit and helpfull comments!, I will do some changes to the mold later on.

Yaron Naor - 7-2-2009 at 12:35 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Emir  
Good Luck Yaron,
i look forward to seeing new photos

Hi Emir, Thanks for your compliments, I will update with photos as the process move forward...
Just visited your website - WOW, very nice design and professional, and the ouds are amazing!

whisperoftheoud - 7-2-2009 at 02:42 PM

good luck my friend...

http://www.turkishoud.com
http://www.turkishouds.com
http://www.myspace.com/turkishouds

More Strips

Yaron Naor - 7-5-2009 at 10:57 PM

Thank you all for your feedbacks and comments!
Front view

Back View

15th Strip is on...

Yaron Naor - 7-26-2009 at 01:33 AM

[file]11256[/file]

udmaker - 7-26-2009 at 12:45 PM

iyi gidiyor gibi mutlaka başaracaksın.:applause: http://www.udmaker.com

The last strip is on! (21 strips)

Yaron Naor - 7-29-2009 at 11:33 PM

wow Yaron

coyootie - 8-1-2009 at 06:28 AM

just realized what a great idea your clamping mechanism is for your mold! how is it working out? do you use rubber bands to pull ribs up to the center rib?
man, if your oud is a good as your mold design, you will have a beauty.
do you have a good pic of your overall design for the rib profile marker? that's also a wonderful invention. one of the biggest things to overcome in layout is getting a good repeatable rib shape- if you get it really refined and at the finished shape, it will save a LOT of time in rib fitting.
best regards and mazel tov from New Mexico.

Yaron Naor - 8-1-2009 at 01:15 PM

Quote: Originally posted by coyootie  
just realized what a great idea your clamping mechanism is for your mold! how is it working out? do you use rubber bands to pull ribs up to the center rib?
man, if your oud is a good as your mold design, you will have a beauty.
do you have a good pic of your overall design for the rib profile marker? that's also a wonderful invention. one of the biggest things to overcome in layout is getting a good repeatable rib shape- if you get it really refined and at the finished shape, it will save a LOT of time in rib fitting.
best regards and mazel tov from New Mexico.


Thanks coyootie,
The mold and the gluing mechanism has prooven itself, it was fast and accurate, the good issue is that by clamping that way you get the right vector of presure for the gluing strip... and the rubber is keeping all the ribs attached to the mold! on the same time.
What exactly you need to see in the ribs profile? contact me in the personal mail or U2U and I will send you any pics that you want.
Thanks,
Yaron.

The Oud's belly is finished and out of the mold

Yaron Naor - 8-3-2009 at 12:14 AM

oud back

coyootie - 8-3-2009 at 05:55 AM

this is a really nice looking back! you can trim the base block at the bottom with a chisel ,but handle your back very carefully so you don't pop any rib joints. a good idea to put a cross pattern of tape over the outside to give you a little more reinforcement before trimming this block.
a good lesson to us all to make the tailblock the correct shape first.......

Jonathan - 8-3-2009 at 01:44 PM

Beautiful. Congratulations

Yaron Naor - 8-4-2009 at 03:10 AM

Quote: Originally posted by coyootie  
this is a really nice looking back! you can trim the base block at the bottom with a chisel ,but handle your back very carefully so you don't pop any rib joints. a good idea to put a cross pattern of tape over the outside to give you a little more reinforcement before trimming this block.
a good lesson to us all to make the tailblock the correct shape first.......


Thanks for the compliments and the comments!
This tail block is at this size because of 2 resons
1. It is easier to glue when it is thick.
2. I will add a preamp and a jack... so I need more thickness.
There is no problem to take off some of the wood with a chisel.

Gluing the strips from the inside...

Yaron Naor - 8-4-2009 at 11:11 PM

Ararat66 - 8-5-2009 at 12:39 AM

Really nice

Well done - I'll keep watching the thread

Happy summer

Leon

The paper's strips are on, and the sound hole is ready

Yaron Naor - 8-15-2009 at 09:26 PM



[file]10642[/file] [file]10644[/file] [file]10646[/file]

msimon - 8-15-2009 at 09:46 PM

I have never seen an oud with a sound hole on the side. Very interesting!
MS

theodoropoulos - 8-16-2009 at 12:31 AM

let me tell you my opinion..i have tried something like this in another instrument and i had a problem.The hole was covered when i was coming closer to the instrument and that was bad..i hope this hole is free of the body coverage...

Thanks for the comment...

Yaron Naor - 8-16-2009 at 12:44 AM

Quote: Originally posted by theodoropoulos  
let me tell you my opinion..i have tried something like this in another instrument and i had a problem.The hole was covered when i was coming closer to the instrument and that was bad..i hope this hole is free of the body coverage...


Yes, this option was on my mind, I have a friend, a very good Oud player that helps me with the ergonomics and I saw that there will be no body coverage... But I will have the soundboard free of holes and maybe a loader sound?

Yaron Naor - 8-16-2009 at 12:47 AM

Quote: Originally posted by msimon  
I have never seen an oud with a sound hole on the side. Very interesting!
MS


Thanks!
Yes it is very interesting.

very nice man

muthada - 8-16-2009 at 06:25 AM

the next genaration oud:cool:

theodoropoulos - 8-16-2009 at 06:32 AM

well,this is an interesting experiment,and perhaps you should imagine the colour of sound it will be revealed.i suppose that it be be very bassy sound ....let's see

Yaron Naor - 8-16-2009 at 11:47 AM

Quote: Originally posted by theodoropoulos  
well,this is an interesting experiment,and perhaps you should imagine the colour of sound it will be revealed.i suppose that it be be very bassy sound ....let's see


Yes, this is a very interesting experiment for me... consider the fact that I am going to put a floating bridge which will effect the sound towards more sharp and treble sound I will get a balanced one - time will say isn't it?

theodoropoulos - 8-16-2009 at 12:00 PM

the stiffer the soundboard the trembler the sound.But there is not only the bridge.The whole game is in the soundboard thickness and the braces.in your place i would made a thicker SB (2.5 mm) and thicker braces in order to manage a balanced sound.
did you think just how to fill an "empty" SB optically???

jdowning - 8-16-2009 at 12:39 PM

An interesting unconventional design. Presumably, with a vent in the side of the bowl your soundboard will not have a 'sound hole'?

Some custom guitar makers - who have cut holes in the side of the body rather than in the sound board - have provided a sliding cover over the vent hole so that the optimum area of the hole can be determined for maximum sound volume.
It would be interesting to experiment with variations of the vent area - perhaps with a temporary plug fitted in the hole, provided with a sliding cover and sealed at the edges - just to see how this affect overall sound volume and response?
Good luck!

ALAMI - 8-16-2009 at 01:02 PM

Interesting indeed,
I think that John suggestion would be a great experimental tool.
The holes are useful for the resonance of the low frequencies: the Helmholtz effect, like when you blow laterally in bottle neck and it whistles.
The size of the vent should be proportional to the volume of the air chamber and "tuned" in order to serve the instrument bass sound. For guitars it is usually tuned to resonate at A2, for old 4-5 course Arabic ouds it was tuned to D.
I had in mind a 2 layers rosette that can open or close to "tune" the vent but it was complicated to builh

Having a soundboard without holes will preserve the vibration energy but it should not be very stiff, I think.
Any special ideas for the bridge design ?

Yaron Naor - 8-17-2009 at 12:51 AM

Quote: Originally posted by theodoropoulos  
the stiffer the soundboard the trembler the sound.But there is not only the bridge.The whole game is in the soundboard thickness and the braces.in your place i would made a thicker SB (2.5 mm) and thicker braces in order to manage a balanced sound.
did you think just how to fill an "empty" SB optically???


Thanks for your comments and the info, I have an experience with guitar tops and special pattern bracing, and I am going to do the same on my Oud, the side sound hole, the special braces, and the floating bridge = will give me (hopefully) a bigger volume without harm the tone and the character of the Oud completely. (you will see the braces pattern in two weeks... or see the attaced image below)

[file]10652[/file]

Yaron Naor - 8-17-2009 at 01:02 AM

Quote: Originally posted by ALAMI  
Interesting indeed,
I think that John suggestion would be a great experimental tool.
The holes are useful for the resonance of the low frequencies: the Helmholtz effect, like when you blow laterally in bottle neck and it whistles.
The size of the vent should be proportional to the volume of the air chamber and "tuned" in order to serve the instrument bass sound. For guitars it is usually tuned to resonate at A2, for old 4-5 course Arabic ouds it was tuned to D.
I had in mind a 2 layers rosette that can open or close to "tune" the vent but it was complicated to builh

Having a soundboard without holes will preserve the vibration energy but it should not be very stiff, I think.
Any special ideas for the bridge design ?


THANKS, for replying to this post...
I know about the Helmholtz effect, and the proportional the volume of the air chamber and "tuned" sound hole.
I measured the hole of a Turkish Oud and made the same proportions to my Oud - but the hole will be on the side - in order to get a clean and consistent membrane top (it works for me on my guitars you can see and hear it here:
http://www.buildyourguitar.com/resources/naor/index.htm
Now I am designing the bridge... no images for now

Yaron Naor - 8-17-2009 at 03:36 AM

Quote: Originally posted by jdowning  
An interesting unconventional design. Presumably, with a vent in the side of the bowl your soundboard will not have a 'sound hole'?

Some custom guitar makers - who have cut holes in the side of the body rather than in the sound board - have provided a sliding cover over the vent hole so that the optimum area of the hole can be determined for maximum sound volume.
It would be interesting to experiment with variations of the vent area - perhaps with a temporary plug fitted in the hole, provided with a sliding cover and sealed at the edges - just to see how this affect overall sound volume and response?
Good luck!


Thanks, Yes there will be a side sound hole and the top will be clean. I have built some side holes on my guitars and I will try it now on my Oud.
Yes, Maybe I will put some temporary plug and experiment the effect on the sound.
Thanks for the blessing, keep visiting my posts.

Pegs box and the top.

Yaron Naor - 8-24-2009 at 12:45 AM

[file]10793[/file] [file]10795[/file]

Sazi - 8-24-2009 at 03:18 AM

Wow Yaron, this looks really special, I love the organic shape of the bracing, like a growing tree, somehow I have the feeling this oud will sound amazing! I look forward to it's completion, best wishes for you both, S

The neck is almost ready.

Yaron Naor - 8-31-2009 at 12:00 AM

Next reply will show the special bracing patern on the top!

[file]10948[/file] [file]10950[/file] [file]10952[/file] [file]10954[/file]

The neck is ready with a rosewood lamination

Yaron Naor - 9-1-2009 at 01:50 AM

(The neck is only in position, not glued yet)

[file]10968[/file] [file]10970[/file] [file]10972[/file]

The special face is ready

Yaron Naor - 9-6-2009 at 12:05 AM

paulO - 9-6-2009 at 04:10 AM

Yaron -- that's one interesting and wild bracing pattern man. Can't wait to hear it. Beautiful work by the way, and thanks for all the photos too. Take care.

Regards..Paul

Sazi - 9-6-2009 at 04:41 AM

I'll second that!! Fantastic innovative design, all the best for the sound Yaron!

astonishing man

muthada - 9-7-2009 at 01:24 AM

i cant wait to here it.

all the best.:applause:

Yes yes yes!

Luttgutt - 9-7-2009 at 10:36 AM

Looks wonderful!

I just love what you are doing to the oud world!

Good luck with the rest of your project

Thanks and some more pics

Yaron Naor - 9-8-2009 at 12:32 AM

Thank you guys, Sazi, Muthada and Luttgutt for your support and comments, this definitely brings even more drive in to my work.

Some new images of the new rosewood bridge (bone suddle), and the face glued on the body.

[file]11064[/file] [file]11066[/file] [file]11068[/file]

Microber - 9-8-2009 at 03:46 AM

Very interresting oud.
I like the bridge very much.
What kind of fingerboard will you use ?
This one will have an important impact on the esthetic of the face.
Can't wait to see and hear it.

Good luck

Robert

Yaron Naor - 9-8-2009 at 04:09 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Microber  
Very interresting oud.
I like the bridge very much.
What kind of fingerboard will you use ?
This one will have an important impact on the esthetic of the face.
Can't wait to see and hear it.

Good luck

Robert


Thanks Robert!
The fingerboard will be 2 pieces of Ebony, one on the neck and the second will be on the oud's face
It will be a standard fretboard to give the player a "home" feeling...;)
I am too, very exited to finsih and hear it!!
Y.

Back inlay

Yaron Naor - 9-9-2009 at 11:54 PM

Before & After
This will be the spot for the jack's pickup in the future

[file]11073[/file] [file]11075[/file] [file]11077[/file]

abusin - 9-10-2009 at 04:21 AM


Looking good my friend, can't waite to hear it :bounce::airguitar:

Fret board and Arm Rest!!!

Yaron Naor - 9-17-2009 at 12:33 AM

paulO - 9-17-2009 at 10:29 AM

Hi Yaron,

I seriously like the arm rest idea, very cool. Regards..Paul

GUY - 9-19-2009 at 09:40 AM

Good work Yaron .Your mould is very inventive .I do not understand the use of the clamps on the mould .Could you give us explanations ?

GUY - 9-19-2009 at 09:46 AM

Sorry Yaron .I did see your response on the next page

Tuners shaper and the sound hole binding (Ebony)

Yaron Naor - 9-21-2009 at 01:20 PM

[file]11297[/file] [file]11289[/file] [file]11299[/file] [file]11291[/file]

The tip of the tuners box and the neck joint...

Yaron Naor - 9-23-2009 at 11:25 PM

[file]11331[/file] [file]11333[/file] [file]11335[/file]

Finishing.... can you imagine?

Yaron Naor - 9-28-2009 at 02:11 AM

[file]11425[/file] [file]11427[/file] [file]11429[/file]

Pegs...

Yaron Naor - 10-3-2009 at 10:38 AM

[file]11592[/file] [file]11594[/file] [file]11596[/file]

Turkish Oud project is finished!

Yaron Naor - 10-5-2009 at 02:48 AM

Hi All,
5 months and 928 grams of special wood and delicate work have come to an end!

And the Oud is ready,

See Yaniv Raba playing... (10 minutes after the strings were attached)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y8YWIsO8tg

More professional sound track will be soon!!!

Thanks!
Yaron.
Oud player - Yaniv Raba!
[file]11622[/file] [file]11624[/file] [file]11626[/file]

paulO - 10-5-2009 at 12:23 PM

Dude ! It looks great, and sounds good as well -- the alternate soundhole location seems to be a non issue. Really balanced initial sound, really lively sounding -- would love to hear it once the strings settle in. The finish work looks great too. Beautiflul grain in the pickguard. How did Yaniv react to the soundhole pointing up towards his face ?? Great job man.

Regards...Paul

Sazi - 10-5-2009 at 03:19 PM

Great piece of functional Art there Yaron, well done. Interesting that with such a deviation from the Turkish "norm" in regards to bracing and sound-hole design, it still sounds Turkish!

Great work, all the best for the next one;)

Thanks!

Yaron Naor - 10-7-2009 at 07:22 AM

Quote: Originally posted by paulO  
Dude ! It looks great, and sounds good as well -- the alternate soundhole location seems to be a non issue. Really balanced initial sound, really lively sounding -- would love to hear it once the strings settle in. The finish work looks great too. Beautiflul grain in the pickguard. How did Yaniv react to the soundhole pointing up towards his face ?? Great job man.

Regards...Paul


Thanks Poul for your feedback!
Yaniv was very happy with the soundhole pointing his face...
now he can hear himself better while playing,
The point in doing the soundhole on the side is to get a clean soundboard and there for a sharper tone,
I will do some pro recording soon and then you will hear the clean, sharp and balanced sound oof this oud.
Good day
Yaron Naor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y8YWIsO8tg

Yaron Naor - 10-7-2009 at 07:29 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Sazi  
Great piece of functional Art there Yaron, well done. Interesting that with such a deviation from the Turkish "norm" in regards to bracing and sound-hole design, it still sounds Turkish!

Great work, all the best for the next one;)


Thanks for your great feedback!
Yes it is a Turkish reak sound, I love it, Yaniv was very happy, now he says that he has to play a month and "open" it, for a longer sustain and volume.

I will publish a good sound sumple soon
Thanks
Yaron Naor

shayrgob - 10-8-2009 at 04:36 PM

NICE!!! awesome playing too! I want to hear more!

katakofka - 10-8-2009 at 05:13 PM

good job...I would leave it with no pickguard or a smaller one though

GUY - 10-8-2009 at 11:09 PM

fantastic work and innovation.The sound seems to be great.
Congratulation Yaron

Melbourne - 10-10-2009 at 05:11 AM

Hey this turned out really good :) The sound is pretty decent considering the design.

Congratulations...I agree with katakofka about the raqma though....if your going for the saz look - you gotta go all the way! Maybe the clear film pickguards they use on flamenco guitars can be an idea for the next one!

regards;
Melbourne

Yaron Naor - 10-14-2009 at 12:51 PM

Quote: Originally posted by GUY  
fantastic work and innovation.The sound seems to be great.
Congratulation Yaron


Thanks! for all your compliments
Yaron.

Yaron Naor - 10-14-2009 at 01:30 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Melbourne  
Hey this turned out really good :) The sound is pretty decent considering the design.

Congratulations...I agree with katakofka about the raqma though....if your going for the saz look - you gotta go all the way! Maybe the clear film pickguards they use on flamenco guitars can be an idea for the next one!

regards;
Melbourne


Thanks Melbourne!
This instrument was designed as an experimental Turkish Oud that's way I didn't go all the way to a Saz look, so the pick guard is almost as the original so it will look as much as a Turkish but more Turkish Delight! ;)
Regards,
Yaron