Jonathan - 7-13-2009 at 11:05 AM
Im in the process of making another oud, and I am trying to come up with some improvments on how I have approached the process. I never did any
woodworking whatsoever prior to 2005, when I started my first oud. So, some of the things I post might seem obvious, but they represent an
improvement in how I am doing things.
In the past, the thing that bothered me more than anything was attaching the neck to the body. Once clamped, there was a tendency to lose the angle
just a little bit. And, if the action gets raised or lowered just a little, an oud can go from great to miserable.
I'll start with a pic of the bowl. Nothing new here, but I am liking the look of it. Birds eye maple. I made no effort to try to match color shades
of the maple, which would have been easy. I like it this way better. To me, a lot more visual interest.
[file]10231[/file]
Jonathan - 7-13-2009 at 11:07 AM
In the past, I've always attached the neck to the bowl with dowel rods. Not this time. I built the neck as shown below, so I can have a
tongue-in-groove joint.
A dovetail joint would probably have been better, but I haven't done that before. Maybe next time.
Jonathan - 7-13-2009 at 11:10 AM
So, you can see that there are a couple of temporary dowel rods sticking out of the surface of the neck. They help with alignment. I'm also using
some temporary dowel rods on the bowl. Here's a pic of the inside (I know, I still have to clean it up).
You will see at the bottom that there is a hole for a dowel rod to fit, and there is also a dowel rod in the neck block.
The groove in the neck block I cut with a router (yeah, I made a jig for that, as well).
Jonathan - 7-13-2009 at 11:12 AM
I laid out some right angles on my work table, routered in a slot to accept the neck block, and placed a dowel that fits into the tail block.
This approach is going to work for ouds of all sizes.
Jonathan - 7-13-2009 at 11:13 AM
Now, just put the bowl in place, and the neck in place. . .
Jonathan - 7-13-2009 at 11:14 AM
Glue the mating surfaces, squeeze together, and apply a weight at the top of the neck to keep contact strong
Jonathan - 7-13-2009 at 11:17 AM
More later. . .
paulO - 7-13-2009 at 01:40 PM
Dear Johnathan,
I'm too darn distracted by that amazing birds eye maple to follow the process improvements ! That's already one lovely looking oud, and thanks for
updates !
Regards..Paul
msimon - 7-14-2009 at 05:00 PM
Nice oud Jonathan!!! I agree with paulO: The maple has so much going on in it, it's hard to follow the rest! Great choice of wood, and I know it will
be just as beautiful, if not more than your first! Good job, and I cannot wait for a sound file!
Thanks,
MS
Jonathan - 7-16-2009 at 11:39 AM
Thanks. There's kind of a 3-dimensional thing going on there, where you just really want to touch the wood. This is with some mineral spirits--can't
wait to get to the real finish, eventually.
I am trying to keep it just black and white (or, rather, ebony and maple)--real simple. Even the cap on the bottom is just a hemi-circle of ebony. I
figured I wanted the texture of the maple to be the focus.
The only splash of color on this is going to be at the scroll on top of the peg box (not yet attached), which is going to be made of pink ivory
wood.
[file]10310[/file]
Jameel - 7-16-2009 at 03:43 PM
Neat stuff Jonathan. Glad you're improving your process. The bird's-eye is also pretty nifty.
DaveH - 7-16-2009 at 11:19 PM
I don't think I've seen an oud body with all birdseye, but I have to say there's something about it that just goes. It's like this is how ouds are
meant to be. The unmatched ribs are really effective too. Can't wait to see it finished.
jdowning - 7-18-2009 at 12:46 PM
Nicely done Jonathan.
The maple is very attractive. Did you have any problem with grain 'tear out' (complex grain figure in maple can be tricky to work with)? What will be
your final bowl thickness? Do you need to leave extra rib thickness because of the grain?
Just curious because I have a batch of 'birds eye' maple rib blanks waiting for a needy project!
Jonathan - 7-19-2009 at 04:26 AM
Thanks. My ribs always start out a bit thick--a little over 3 mm. Right now, it's been sanded down to 2.4 mm, and it will probably go a bit lower
yet.
I've talked to oud makers who told me that their staves end up at around 1.5 mm by the time they are done--that's way too thin for me. I would be far
too worried about the strength of the joint.
What are your thoughts on this?
The wood was a dream to work with. I love maple! I've made a total of 6 bowls now, and I have used maple (flame and birdseye), lacewood, mahogany,
walnut, pear, pink ivory, and mulberry. The maples are by far my favorite (although the pear is a close second).
One thing I did notice is that I had a blemish in one of the ribs that became more apparent as I sanded down. On the picture below, it's the seventh
rib from the bottom, center screen--some sort of defect in the wood. I don't remember seeing this when I placed the rib--perhaps it became more
apparent as I sanded down. I'll have to go through my old pics and see if it was there.
But, other than that, perfect.
I did use unfigured maple for the pegbox sides, rather than the birdseye.
I added that little scroll of pink ivory at the top of the peg box--not too apparent in this pic, I guess.
[file]10347[/file]
Jonathan - 7-19-2009 at 04:30 AM
Here's a better pic. Just one little splash of color--completely unexpected.
For the first time, I put in some purfling and edgetrim on the walls of the peg box.
Still some tweaking to do throughout, but I am now ready to move on to the front of the instrument (I still haven't made the face)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ramiwujWjtE
[file]10349[/file]
jdowning - 7-19-2009 at 10:54 AM
The staves of lute bowls are generally 1.5 mm or less in thickness so concerns about joint strength should not be a problem for oud bowls. The
interior reinforcement of the rib joints with glued paper, parchment, linen or silk etc. probably has a much greater influence on the overall strength
of a bowl.
Unlike the ribs of a lute, the ribs of an oud bowl must, of course, start thicker than this to allow the exterior of the bowl to be shaped to a smooth
profile in section. To then bring the bowl to a uniform thickness - as I understand it - excess material must be removed from the interior with a
curved scraper. That would be quite a time consuming and exacting task I imagine with danger of making the ribs too thin in places.
Jonathan - 7-19-2009 at 03:01 PM
I've talked to a couple of oud makers that I really respect, and they both told me that their staves end up at around 1.5 mm by the time they are
finished. I'm a novice at this, and I don't feel comfortable at this point going down to that level.
I would really love to develop a way of bending the rib, before it is glued on, not just on the long axis, but on the short one, as well. . .if that
makes any sense. If I could do that, then I could start with thinner ribs, and end with thinner ribs, because a whole lot less sanding will be
required at the end to make it conform to the expected shape.
The thing that I try to keep in mind is that, while my ribs may end up at a little over 2mm, how thick is the joint? Much, much less, although I
really don't have calipers to accurately measure that. 1mm? Perhaps.
When you say that "the interior reinforcement of the rib joints with glued paper, parchment, linen or silk etc. probably has a much greater influence
on the overall strength of a bowl", are you referring to ouds, lutes, or both?
jdowning - 7-19-2009 at 05:33 PM
Both oud and lute bowls should have interior rib joint reinforcement. This is invariably the case for lutes and is probably the general rule for ouds
as well. An oud bowl constructed without reinforcement would be inherently weaker structurally than one with reinforcement
The attached sketches may best explain what I am referring to in bowl construction. For an oud with a smooth rounded exterior, the ribs, of necessity
are made thicker to start with, say 2 mm +, so that when the exterior surface of the bowl is smoothly rounded the rib joint is reduced to, say, 1.5 mm
in depth while the centre of the rib remains thicker - see stage 1. Clearly, removing more material from the exterior surface of the ribs in order to
reduce the centre thickness of a rib to 1.5 mm would correspondingly reduce the depth of the rib joint to less than 1.5 mm - most likely to an
unacceptable thinness.
In order to reduce the bowl to a uniform thickness of, say, 1.5 mm, the interior surface of each rib must be scraped down to the same depth as the rib
joint - as shown in stage 2.
This second step is not required in lute bowl construction as the ribs are made about 1.5 mm to start with. The characteristic faceted surface of the
bowl remains this way without further shaping or contouring of the internal or external surfaces of the bowl.
Early writers on oud construction emphasise that an oud bowl should be made as thin and light as possible and of uniform thickness.
OudandTabla - 7-21-2009 at 09:15 PM
This is gorgeous! Can't wait to see the front. Are you doing 1 or three holes?
Jonathan - 7-22-2009 at 10:02 AM
Thank you very much. I appreciate it.
I'm trying to make it look very "old school" Turkish. 3 soundholes, no extended fingerboard. The front is going to look simple, in fact--I sort of
like that look of really powerful-looking wood, and an understated front.
I'm not going to have any time to work on it for a month or so, but I hope to have the oud completed in 2 or 3 months.
Again, thanks a lot.
Jonathan - 10-23-2009 at 01:09 PM
I somehow failed to keep this thread current.
The oud is done, though. About two hours old.
I tend to play near the central rosette, so I extended the pick guard/mizraplek up to the inlay that surrounds it, as well as up to the inlays
surrounding the smaller openings. It's kind of a throw back, I guess, to some older Turkish ouds that I have seen from the 60's. Changes the whole
look of the face. Sort of fun looking--not too serious.
[file]11987[/file]
Jonathan - 10-23-2009 at 01:11 PM
.
Love the bowl woods. Shellac. Paste wax. Rottenstone with mineral oil. I like the results.
[file]11989[/file]
paulO - 10-23-2009 at 02:14 PM
Jonathan,
Stunning work all around dude !! I like the unpainted bridge too. How's the Pink oud doing ?? Take care.
Regards...PaulO
Jameel - 10-23-2009 at 02:36 PM
Ooohhhh, bird's eye. Your work is getting better with each one. How does it sound?
Jonathan - 10-23-2009 at 03:11 PM
Thanks, guys. Paul--Pink is just fine. I've played her quite a bit over this past year. This maple one, though, I think will take over for me,
because I made the bowl a bit narrower, and it is more comfortable for me to play.
Jameel--Not sure yet, because the strings are just starting to settle in. It's definitely the loudest of all the ones I have made, and the bass is
super strong. I'm hoping the midrange and treble are there--I think they will be. The thing I noticed with this one, though, is that the strings
resonate if you just talk near the oud, so I really am looking forward to hearing it--I should be able to post something in a few days or so.
FastForward - 10-23-2009 at 05:58 PM
That looks really beautiful Jonathan, keep up the good work.
Jonathan - 10-24-2009 at 12:37 PM
Thanks. I really appreciate it.
Jonathan - 11-16-2009 at 01:54 PM
A quickie sound sample. The playing is rough, but you can at least get a sense of how the instrument sounds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leqt9vzOgvk
Ararat66 - 11-16-2009 at 02:03 PM
Hi Jonathan
That sounds terrific, sounds young as you'd expect but great projection, resonance and separation.
You should be proud of that ... btw I like your playing 
Leon
Sazi - 11-16-2009 at 02:06 PM
That's really nice Jonathan, 
I notice the Arabic tuning, yet (hard to really tell from a youtube vid, with new strings and all, I know)... it seem's to have more of a Turkish
tonality about it. (have you tried Turkish tuning on it...what is the string length?)
Jonathan - 11-16-2009 at 02:09 PM
Thanks. You're right. It is tuned DGAdgc. Whenever I have made an oud, I tend to just slowly tune up the strings, and start at this lower tension
and let the oud settle in a bit with it. Probably not needed, but I do it anyway. I do need to tune it up one more tone, though, and see how it
sounds. The oud is based on Turkish size and bracing.
Sazi - 11-17-2009 at 04:21 PM
Hey yeah, I'm with you there, I would definitely do the same, and probably tune it up only a semi-tone first, better safe than AGHHHRRR!