Hibari-San
Oud Maniac
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Dimension Guide
In order to support starting oud/instrument builders, I thought it would be a great thing to have measurements of every single part. A collection of
reference data for comparing reasons, could be useful for professionals too. Please let me know if u think I'm barking up the wrong tree and a thread
like this is not necessary. I will wait for some replies before I pump in some of my data. 
Best regards
Hibari
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"If you spend to much time thinking about a thing, you'll never get it done. Make at least one definite
move daily toward your goal."
- Bruce Lee -
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Dr. Oud
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A noble endeavor, but I have not found any consistent dimensions among Arabic ouds, even from the Nahhat famly and occasionally from the same maker.
My conclusion after over 45 years of repair and restoration is that anything goes, pretty much.
The Turkish ouds do follow the Manol design pretty closely, but again in proportional reference rather than any finite dimension. The overall size can
vary, but the relative proportions are pretty consistent in Turkish ouds.
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Hibari-San
Oud Maniac
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Hi Richard,
thank you, thats a wonderful start for the topic.
I mean to hear that from a person with your experience, will definitely take some weight off the shoulders of a luthier rookie. 
Anyhow I still believe that it is possible to provide some sort of aprox measurements of the parts of an oud.
For example: we know that a soundboard has to be thin (about 2mm), but a beginner maybe don't. In his opinion 4mm can be very thin.
What I'm up to is neither body depth or width nor scale lenght or things like that, because that is matter of taste.
When I started to build my first oud I was always on the hunt for precious data in the internet.
I think it can be a big help to others.
I will post the first measurements based on arabic oud anatomics soon and hope that you guys are willing to correct or confirm these.
Best regards
Hibari
--------------------------------------------------------
"If you spend to much time thinking about a thing, you'll never get it done. Make at least one definite
move daily toward your goal."
- Bruce Lee -
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Dr. Oud
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Face thickness is a factor of the stiffness of the piece of wood. The face can be flexed at 4-5mm thick to determine its flexibility. This is a
judgement that needs to be developed, but it is the only way to determine the correct thickness. Generally, spruce is stiffer than cedar, but the
grain spacing as well as the age of the piece also affect its stiffness. The piece should flex 10-15mmwith moderate pressure. This is described in my
book, "The Oud, Construction and Repair", and is also found in Cumpiano's book on guitar construction.
http://www.lulu.com/shop/richard-hankey/the-oud-construction-and-re...
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Hibari-San
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Awesome, here we have a nice method to determite sound board thickness.
Thanks again Richard for sharing this valuable information !
Soundboard thickness measures aprox 2-2.5mm
What is fact for accoustic guitars cant be completely wrong for ouds.
As stated by a guitar builder who was referring to a Ramirez guitar plan:
"I measured the top thickness of a Ramirez Centenario. It was 2.5 mm in the area between the bridge and the soundhole. I found it was 2.4, 2.3, 2.2 mm
going from the center to the outline."
It is clearly a matter of wood stiffness, type of wood and bracing but a useful rule of thumb.
Best regards
Hibari
--------------------------------------------------------
"If you spend to much time thinking about a thing, you'll never get it done. Make at least one definite
move daily toward your goal."
- Bruce Lee -
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bulerias1981
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Dr. Oud hit the nail on the head. There really hasn't been much standardization among Arabic ouds in particular. Turkish ouds more so. But if someone
calls me and tells me they are bringing an Arabic oud, unless I know the maker, I have NO IDEA what's coming into my shop. There is a kind of beauty
in that, because when Arabic ouds are good, they're great. Of course when one begins their making or repairing journey, every single instrument that
comes through their hands should be thoroughly measured, recorded in your book and understood.
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Hibari-San
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Come on guys, I mean rough dimensions.
I still don't think the ouds on this planet differ so much. A neck is neither 30cm nor 10cm long.... its about 20cm so whats the point ?
Best regards
Hibari
--------------------------------------------------------
"If you spend to much time thinking about a thing, you'll never get it done. Make at least one definite
move daily toward your goal."
- Bruce Lee -
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Hibari-San
Oud Maniac
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I will continue with the neck/block.
A standard arabic oud neck should be about 20cm long (60cm scale).
At the neck joint the width measures about 5.5 - 5.8 cm.
Depending on your playing habbits or the dimensions of your hands, the neck width at the top(nut) side
should be about 3.5 - 4 cm.
The neck block at the joint should be about 2 - 4 mm smaller because the glued ribs bring the difference.
Thickness of the block is matter of taste and the width at the "body side" depends on the oud's form and block's thickness.
On my ouds the neck block has a thickness of about 3 - 3.5 cm.
Please feel free to add or correct data. Maybe some of the members could measure their neck joint width for comparing reasons. Thx in advance
Best regards
Hibari
--------------------------------------------------------
"If you spend to much time thinking about a thing, you'll never get it done. Make at least one definite
move daily toward your goal."
- Bruce Lee -
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Dr. Oud
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The neck length is a proportional dimension = 1/3 the string length. The string length is determined by the length of the body and the resulting
position of the bridge, determined by positions of the braces according to whatever design you are using. Oud bodies are variable in length, even
within each style, so there is really no standard neck length. Measure the distance from the bridge to the neck/body joint, divide by 2 = neck length.
The width seems to be a cultural issue, Syrian ouds have rather narrow necks, Iraqi are very wide, Turkish are somewhere in between.
My point is that there is no standard dimension for any oud feature, but there are proportional relationships.
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suz_i_dil
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Hello
I remind a youtube video, rather long, on the subject of standardization of oud size.
From memory I think Faruk Turunz, Mustafa Said, Naseer Shamma were among the people talking in this conference. Unfortunately I cannot find back the
video, maybe someone can help ? Or maybe a member of this conference may help you to get records from the debate.
Till now, this is not standardized as Dr Oud told you.
For the neck,m y personnal taste go to rather thin neck. more or less 2cm thickness from the nut toward the neck body joint. A bit less than 2cm at
the nut size a bit more at the body joint. At the nut for a 6 courses oud, I like around 4 cm wide at the nut, around 6 cm at the neck / body joint.
Back size I like the neck circle, not flat.
But this is personnal taste, I feel the more confortable. A friend with bigger hands will prefer a more fat neck
The length will depend of the stringlength. 1/3 of the diapason.
All the best
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jdowning
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As Richard points out there are proportional relationships in oud design.
Historically oud geometry was based upon proportions that were considered to be divine - so being in agreement with the sacred proportions of the
universe. The physical dimensions were also related to the sacred proportions of the body of man. So, in this respect ouds were once standardised in
form and dimension.
It is highly unlikely (I suspect) that any modern oud maker is following the old dictates concerning oud geometry - by old I mean pre-modern or
earlier than the late 19th C (and, unlike lutes, no ouds survive prior to this time to study or copy). The earliest surviving ouds by some of the
great makers such as Manol or the Nahats may have been based upon earlier traditional designs so a study of their proportions may provide some clues.
Otherwise pretty much anything goes concerning oud design that works acoustically in the judgment of modern players.
The proportion of fingerboard length being 1/3 open string length (equivalent to the important interval of a fifth when stopped at the neck joint
position) did not always apply to some early ouds where the proportion was only 1/4 string length.
It is over a year now since I last posted an update on my topic that sets out to investigate old oud and lute geometries - so the subject matter is
still far from complete. Nevertheless the material posted may be of some interest with regards to this current thread.
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=11186
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rootsguitar
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Happy Winter Solstice!!
Glad to grab some wifi & see how busy these forums have been...
Some may find this clip entertaining with regards to geometry and proportion:
https://youtu.be/zmnOI4xmv8U
start the clip at 45 minute mark for the intended relevance.
Its interesting to compare this subject to canoe building in that the exact figures may reflect the wooden material available & a starting
decision, however arbitrary, that ends up mapping out the rest of the project.
Excellent looking instrument btw Hibari...that last one with the lute style pegbox looks very sharp.
Glad I made time to drop by and wish you all much success in the new year.
another interesting resource is
The Discovery of Middle Earth
by Graham Robb
though somewhat off the exact topic this read proposes some creative ideas with regard to astronomy's influence on human ideas of layout &
proportion in the far off historical...
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Hibari-San
Oud Maniac
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Hey guys,
wow I'm impressed how this starts to develop
I realized that my arabic neck length was 1/3 of the scale (60cm) length but never thought about it being that important.
Now that makes perfect sense !
Generally an oud is proportionally designed and there is no standard, but I will continue to post dimensions based
on arabic oud's. There's much to learn and I hope you guys will keep helping. 
Thank you Richard, John and Suz i Dil for clearing up.
I repost the quote of Richard to add something about :
the string spacing
It's from Groteskh's "OUD string spacing" thread.
"The string spacing is determined by the angle of the neck/fingerboard and the string length. There is no standard string spacing since the string
length and fingerboard dimensions are variable among oud designs. The spacing is the result of the 1st and last string positioned 2mm inside the edge
of the fingerboard, and 2mm between each pair at the top nut and 3mm at the bridge. The spacing between the pairs is the result of a calculating the
result of the neck width at the top nut minus the spacing between the pairs, divided by 5. The angle between the edges of the neck will determine the
spread at the bridge."
Many thanks Richard for sharing your knowledge with us !
I would also recommend to take a look at Mr Downings researches posted above.
Finally that documentation posted by rootsguitar is of general interest and very beautiful !
Thanks for your kind words rootsguitar !! I wish you nice new year too and all the best !!
Keep up the pick !! 
Best regards
Hibari
--------------------------------------------------------
"If you spend to much time thinking about a thing, you'll never get it done. Make at least one definite
move daily toward your goal."
- Bruce Lee -
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Hibari-San
Oud Maniac
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Location: Germany / Leipzig
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Happy new year folks !!
I wish u all a satisfying and constructive year 2016.
The next I want to say something about is the
thickness of the rib's.
It clearly depends on your craftsmanship and which material u choose for the ribs, but I think you are well advised if you buy or cut the wood in 3 -
3.5 mm thick pieces. You need enough material to scrape off the edges where the ribs are connected. (sry for my engl.)
The width of each rib is determined by measuring the mold and devide it by the overall number of ribs.
Best regards
Hibari
--------------------------------------------------------
"If you spend to much time thinking about a thing, you'll never get it done. Make at least one definite
move daily toward your goal."
- Bruce Lee -
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bulerias1981
Oud Junkie
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Location: Beacon, NY
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The thickness depends on the material for me. I go thinner on woods that are more dense. I really do not work to specific thickness is most cases, but
I'd say for maple, anywhere from 2.3-3.0 at most. On walnut 2.7-3.2. Yes, you lose some material in the end scraping or sanding, but it's not that
much unless you make errors where ribs are not aligned at the same exact height.
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Hibari-San
Oud Maniac
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Thanks John for posting decent data !!
I think thats quite enough for rib material.
The last important objective I think would be string action, more precisely the height of the strings
at the nut, neck joint and bridge.
Please feel free to share data, before I drop in my measurements
Best regards
Hibari
--------------------------------------------------------
"If you spend to much time thinking about a thing, you'll never get it done. Make at least one definite
move daily toward your goal."
- Bruce Lee -
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