John Erlich
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1463
Registered: 8-26-2004
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Oud-Obsessed
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Local ME/NA Communities and Your Interactions with Them
Are Forum members who live outside the Middle East and North Africa interested in discussing the communities of people of Middle Eastern and North
African ancestry in your city, region, or country, and your interactions with them? I am happy to post first, but just want to gauge general interest
first?
Any interest?
Peace,
"Udi" John
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aminateur
Oud Maniac
Posts: 60
Registered: 8-22-2017
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From a musical perspective?
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John Erlich
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1463
Registered: 8-26-2004
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Oud-Obsessed
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Especially musical, but we could talk about sociological, social, general cultural, even culinary  , if we want!
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Edward6311
Oud Maniac
Posts: 94
Registered: 8-29-2014
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John,
I’m a Syrian living in Portland, Oregon. We have a decent size community here. I am a member of the Syrian Lebanese American club here in Portland
and we have parties “hafleys” quite often for various occasions. Sometimes with live Arabic music. I have been taking Oud lessons with a great
teacher who luckily is not located far from me. I was exposed to the Oud by uncles of mine who played. I love being part of the Syrian, Lebanese
community in Portland. It’s like a large extended family. My children also feel blessed to belong to such a great Arabic community. We love getting
together and are always available to help each other when needed.
Edward
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John Erlich
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1463
Registered: 8-26-2004
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Oud-Obsessed
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Quote: Originally posted by Edward6311  | John,
I’m a Syrian living in Portland, Oregon. We have a decent size community here. I am a member of the Syrian Lebanese American club here in Portland
and we have parties “hafleys” quite often for various occasions. Sometimes with live Arabic music. I have been taking Oud lessons with a great
teacher who luckily is not located far from me. I was exposed to the Oud by uncles of mine who played. I love being part of the Syrian, Lebanese
community in Portland. It’s like a large extended family. My children also feel blessed to belong to such a great Arabic community. We love getting
together and are always available to help each other when needed.
Edward |
Thanks for sharing, Edward! When I was in Portland a couple summers ago (2016), I happened upon the Portland Persian festival. Have you had any
contact with that community? They seem to have a music school in a nearby suburb.
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Chris-Stephens
Oud Junkie
Posts: 155
Registered: 5-19-2016
Member Is Offline
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Sure I'll shoot! Im in Columbia Missouri. I'm American and play Oud and its relatives here and there around town and have met some folks from overseas
over the year because they've heard me playing. Since I'm in a college town almost all the people of me/na descent are involved with the university.
There is a large Iranian student group, a Muslim student association, and an Arabic language group. We have an international talent showcase every
year, and Nowruz and Shab-e Yalda are regular events i've attended too. Last year I played with a Kurdish Tanbur player and a Persian singer. I
perform on the street downtown among the foot traffic and have met so many people who recognize some instrument I play and we share a nice moment.
I've met folks from Iran, Iraq, Syria, Palestine, Egypt, and Saudi. Most Saudi's are engineers, lots of Iranians are into science/medicine, mostly
everyone stops to talk and take a video when I'm out playing Oud and they're just walking around. I have an interesting pov into the me/na community,
feel free to ask about more specific stuff. The town has 100,000 people in it, rather small number, but the ma/na community is large.
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John Erlich
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1463
Registered: 8-26-2004
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Oud-Obsessed
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| Quote: Originally posted by Chris-Stephens | | Sure I'll shoot! Im in Columbia Missouri. I'm American and play Oud and its relatives here and there around town and have met some folks from overseas
over the year because they've heard me playing. Since I'm in a college town almost all the people of me/na descent are involved with the university.
There is a large Iranian student group, a Muslim student association, and an Arabic language group. We have an international talent showcase every
year, and Nowruz and Shab-e Yalda are regular events i've attended too. Last year I played with a Kurdish Tanbur player and a Persian singer. I
perform on the street downtown among the foot traffic and have met so many people who recognize some instrument I play and we share a nice moment.
I've met folks from Iran, Iraq, Syria, Palestine, Egypt, and Saudi. Most Saudi's are engineers, lots of Iranians are into science/medicine, mostly
everyone stops to talk and take a video when I'm out playing Oud and they're just walking around. I have an interesting pov into the me/na community,
feel free to ask about more specific stuff. The town has 100,000 people in it, rather small number, but the ma/na community is large.
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Nice to hear you have a community in Columbia, MO. Not that I would have had any time to hang out, but I was there in April for a family event. The
only sign of any ME/NA community I noticed while I was there was when we drove a (the?) hallal restaurant and market. Thanks for sharing!
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Chris-Stephens
Oud Junkie
Posts: 155
Registered: 5-19-2016
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by John Erlich |
Nice to hear you have a community in Columbia, MO. Not that I would have had any time to hang out, but I was there in April for a family event. The
only sign of any ME/NA community I noticed while I was there was when we drove a (the?) hallal restaurant and market. Thanks for sharing!
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There are a few halal restaurants, I play Oud in front of the one downtown. The owner and his family are from Leb I think. They all love the Oud  Great Baklava! There are also two hookah lounges here.
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John Erlich
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1463
Registered: 8-26-2004
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Oud-Obsessed
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| Quote: Originally posted by Chris-Stephens | | Quote: Originally posted by John Erlich |
Nice to hear you have a community in Columbia, MO. Not that I would have had any time to hang out, but I was there in April for a family event. The
only sign of any ME/NA community I noticed while I was there was when we drove a (the?) hallal restaurant and market. Thanks for sharing!
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There are a few halal restaurants, I play Oud in front of the one downtown. The owner and his family are from Leb I think. They all love the Oud Great Baklava! There are also two hookah lounges here. |
Three halal restaurants, plus the lamb shish kebab only at a 4th place (LOL), according to the Islamic Center of Central MO's web page.
It's always fun to track down the local ME/NA folks, especially in places that are NOT like Detroit or Paris, i.e., smaller cities with smaller
communities. If I find myself in Columbia again, maybe we can hang out.
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Chris-Stephens
Oud Junkie
Posts: 155
Registered: 5-19-2016
Member Is Offline
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Oh I don't know abou the kebab place! I'm looking that up You can also see the
University student groups to get a feel for the size of the community here. There is also some non-university group that have Arabic food picnics in
the park!
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ChanningPDX
Oud Maniac
Posts: 96
Registered: 10-15-2016
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by John Erlich | | Quote: Originally posted by Edward6311 | John,
I’m a Syrian living in Portland, Oregon. We have a decent size community here. I am a member of the Syrian Lebanese American club here in Portland
and we have parties “hafleys” quite often for various occasions. Sometimes with live Arabic music. I have been taking Oud lessons with a great
teacher who luckily is not located far from me. I was exposed to the Oud by uncles of mine who played. I love being part of the Syrian, Lebanese
community in Portland. It’s like a large extended family. My children also feel blessed to belong to such a great Arabic community. We love getting
together and are always available to help each other when needed.
Edward |
Thanks for sharing, Edward! When I was in Portland a couple summers ago (2016), I happened upon the Portland Persian festival. Have you had any
contact with that community? They seem to have a music school in a nearby suburb. |
I live in Portland and was at the Persian festival last weekend. The music school you mention is called "ArtMax" (http://www.artmax.org) and is run by Hossein Salehi, a santoor player from Iran. His son Bobak plays violin and Kamanche. The website lists
Portland oud player and guitarist Nat Hulskamp as its oud instructor. Nat also teaches oud privately. I've been meaning to sign up for some lessons
with him myself, but the combination of work, parenting a small child, and other musical activities have kept this on the back burner... Hopefully in
the coming year...
As Edward mentions, there is a small but tight-knit MENA community here in Portland. A number of Lebanese came between the mid-70s and early -90s
fleeing the civil war, and there are some good Lebanese-run restaurants and markets here as a result. I've also met a number of people living here
from Syria, Palestine, Israel, Yemen, Iraq, Iran, Libya, and Morocco. The Muslim Educational Trust, which I got connected with through interfaith work
with my synagogue, does outstanding work both creating connection within Portland's diverse and growing Muslim community and also doing outreach to
the wider community.
I teach ESL to international students at a local liberal arts college, and most of my Arab students are Saudi, Kuwaiti, or occasionally Emirati. Most
of them don't play traditional Arabic music, but they seem impressed when I mention that I'm learning the oud and I rattle off names of classic Arab
musicians and singers that their grandparents probably listened to. I did have a qanun player once, and last year, I had a student who confided in me
that he had tried to learn oud in secret, but his father found out and smashed it. A few of my students have been good sources of listening
suggestions, both for traditional music and modern Arabic pop.
Given its size, reputation, and other vibrant ethnic music scenes here, I'm surprised that there isn't more going on here and that Middle Eastern
& related music isn't more popular. There are occasionally musicians who play for belly dancers in a few restaurants and clubs, but it doesn't
seem that there's much else on a regular basis. I was friends with an absolutely brilliant drummer from Turkey who was equally talented on Western
drum kit and Turkish percussion and obsessed with old recordings of Ottoman classical music, but that was before I got bit by the oud bug, and he's
since moved to Seattle, unfortunately. I imagine there are a number of other closet players like myself under the radar--and maybe more experienced
players as well. I've heard that there have been Arabic & Turkish music workshops around here in the past, but it doesn't seem like there's the
momentum to organize much these days.
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John Erlich
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1463
Registered: 8-26-2004
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Oud-Obsessed
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by ChanningPDX | | Quote: Originally posted by John Erlich | | Quote: Originally posted by Edward6311 | John,
I’m a Syrian living in Portland, Oregon. We have a decent size community here. I am a member of the Syrian Lebanese American club here in Portland
and we have parties “hafleys” quite often for various occasions. Sometimes with live Arabic music. I have been taking Oud lessons with a great
teacher who luckily is not located far from me. I was exposed to the Oud by uncles of mine who played. I love being part of the Syrian, Lebanese
community in Portland. It’s like a large extended family. My children also feel blessed to belong to such a great Arabic community. We love getting
together and are always available to help each other when needed.
Edward |
Thanks for sharing, Edward! When I was in Portland a couple summers ago (2016), I happened upon the Portland Persian festival. Have you had any
contact with that community? They seem to have a music school in a nearby suburb. |
I live in Portland and was at the Persian festival last weekend. The music school you mention is called "ArtMax" (http://www.artmax.org) and is run by Hossein Salehi, a santoor player from Iran. His son Bobak plays violin and Kamanche. The website lists
Portland oud player and guitarist Nat Hulskamp as its oud instructor. Nat also teaches oud privately. I've been meaning to sign up for some lessons
with him myself, but the combination of work, parenting a small child, and other musical activities have kept this on the back burner... Hopefully in
the coming year...
As Edward mentions, there is a small but tight-knit MENA community here in Portland. A number of Lebanese came between the mid-70s and early -90s
fleeing the civil war, and there are some good Lebanese-run restaurants and markets here as a result. I've also met a number of people living here
from Syria, Palestine, Israel, Yemen, Iraq, Iran, Libya, and Morocco. The Muslim Educational Trust, which I got connected with through interfaith work
with my synagogue, does outstanding work both creating connection within Portland's diverse and growing Muslim community and also doing outreach to
the wider community.
I teach ESL to international students at a local liberal arts college, and most of my Arab students are Saudi, Kuwaiti, or occasionally Emirati. Most
of them don't play traditional Arabic music, but they seem impressed when I mention that I'm learning the oud and I rattle off names of classic Arab
musicians and singers that their grandparents probably listened to. I did have a qanun player once, and last year, I had a student who confided in me
that he had tried to learn oud in secret, but his father found out and smashed it. A few of my students have been good sources of listening
suggestions, both for traditional music and modern Arabic pop.
Given its size, reputation, and other vibrant ethnic music scenes here, I'm surprised that there isn't more going on here and that Middle Eastern
& related music isn't more popular. There are occasionally musicians who play for belly dancers in a few restaurants and clubs, but it doesn't
seem that there's much else on a regular basis. I was friends with an absolutely brilliant drummer from Turkey who was equally talented on Western
drum kit and Turkish percussion and obsessed with old recordings of Ottoman classical music, but that was before I got bit by the oud bug, and he's
since moved to Seattle, unfortunately. I imagine there are a number of other closet players like myself under the radar--and maybe more experienced
players as well. I've heard that there have been Arabic & Turkish music workshops around here in the past, but it doesn't seem like there's the
momentum to organize much these days.
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Thanks for posting, Channing! I am working on a post myself, but it will be pretty long, given that I am an urban sociology nerd, as well as a ME/NA
music geek!
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ChanningPDX
Oud Maniac
Posts: 96
Registered: 10-15-2016
Member Is Offline
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Looking forward to it, John.
Actually, my father-in-law is a sociologist by profession... Maybe we have the beginnings of a study here...
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John Erlich
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1463
Registered: 8-26-2004
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Oud-Obsessed
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That could be very interesting or very annoying! 
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Chris-Stephens
Oud Junkie
Posts: 155
Registered: 5-19-2016
Member Is Offline
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"I had a student who confided in me that he had tried to learn oud in secret, but his father found out and smashed it."
That is absolutely disgusting. I've met a Saudi guy here who said basically the same thing when he was a kid and expressed interest in the Oud his
father forbade it and threatened violence. I will never understand this kind of constricted behavior.
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ChanningPDX
Oud Maniac
Posts: 96
Registered: 10-15-2016
Member Is Offline
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Disgusting, perhaps, but not uncommon, sadly.
I am by no means an expert on the topic, but the debate over whether instrumental music is permissible in Islam goes back to the religion's early days
and differing scholarly opinions over certain ahadith (sayings) of the Prophet Muhammad. While many mainstream clerics in both Sunni and Shi'i
traditions have upheld that any music is halal as long as there is nothing about it that is explicitly un-Islamic, a small number of conservative
clerics maintain that any form of music that is not devotional a capella music is haram (forbidden) as it may encourage other forms of un-Islamic
behavior.
If you want to learn more, this form of prohibition is known as the "sema polemic" (or samā', depending on the transliteration--it means "hear"
in Arabic).
In this particular case, the student in question was Kuwaiti, but I've talked with multiple Saudis who have mentioned similar stories. The program
"Saudi Arabia Uncovered", which was shown last year by PBS's "Frontline" series in the US and on ITV in the UK has a scene in which a young Saudi man
is shown playing oud in a park at night, and the morality police quickly show up and smash it.
This is not to say that playing oud or Arabic traditional music in general is not popular or not encouraged in countries like Kuwait or Saudi
Arabia--these countries have produced many, many talented musicians. (The acclaimed Saudi singer and oud player Mohammad Abdu springs readily to
mind). It's also worth pointing out that ultra-conservative communities in other religions, such as Judaism and Christianity, sometimes have similar
prohibitions. This kind of thing can vary from community to community and family to family, and while it is unfortunate, it is something that aspiring
musicians around the world sometimes must struggle with.
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KellyRain
Oud Lover
Posts: 13
Registered: 3-9-2018
Member Is Offline
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Hello. I live in Tokyo, Japan. My wife and I own an events/music cafe called Cheshmeh that is one of the core venues for Eastern music here.
We are not that connected to the Arabic or North African communities here. Instead we have very strong ties to the Persian community represented in
Tokyo by a few very talented musicians and singers. Especially Setar, Tanboor, Ney and Tar players who have lived in Japan a long time.
There are some great Persian restaurants as well and they also support the music community. In addition there are universities here that have
language, culture and arts studies that help support the community too.
There is a Turkish community center that teaches Oud, Baglama and other instruments that is quite supportive. Ties between Japan and Turkey are pretty
good and it is common for people from our community here to travel there to study. I also did so a few years ago.
Being American I am one of a few from the US who also play Silk Road region music here. In my case Oud (learning), Afghan Rubab, Setar and Tanboor.
One other notable American and good friend Paul is a very talented Oud player.
Since both the Eastern community and our western community are all foreign residents in Japan our community perspective is quite unique. We share a
love for music and culture and our community includes people from just about everywhere. So there is little real consideration for nationality beyond
interest in culture and traditions.
The Japanese ethnic music community is amazing. There are performers here who have spent considerable time studying in Iran, India, Central Asia and
elsewhere. The musicianship levels are very high and the community is as diverse as there are traditions to study.
The love and passion, intellectual and cultural interest and welcoming nature of the community here means we have a lot going on and the quality of
events here is amazing. But above all it is welcoming to both foreign resident artists as well as many visiting artists who pass through Tokyo.
Maybe our situation here is rather unique. But I am very happy to be a part of this community here.
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ChanningPDX
Oud Maniac
Posts: 96
Registered: 10-15-2016
Member Is Offline
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Thanks for posting, Kelly!
I lived in Japan for three years (Mie-ken), and I miss it deeply. I hadn't gotten into Middle Eastern music at the time I lived in Japan, but my main
musical pursuit was (and still is) Irish trad music, and I was blown away by some of the talented musicians I met in Japan. One of the best uilleann
pipe makers in the world now is Japanese--several top pipers in Ireland now play his instruments--so I guess it shouldn't surprise me in the least
that Japanese lovers of Middle Eastern music would pursue it with equal drive and passion.
It's been a few years since my last visit to Japan, but when I'm there next, I'd love to meet some of the people you mention in the Tokyo Mid-East
music scene.
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KellyRain
Oud Lover
Posts: 13
Registered: 3-9-2018
Member Is Offline
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ChanningPDX,
I have met some of the great Irish performers here too. There is a low whistle player here who is a sight to behold.
Yes, please get in touch if you come out to Tokyo. We are here permanently so will be here. If you let me know in advance and you want to play some
music we can set something up at our space.
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