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elrabee3
Oud Junkie
Posts: 264
Registered: 12-19-2002
Location: Dubai, UAE
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same movie,
Jaber
elrabee3@gmail.com
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elrabee3
Oud Junkie
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Location: Dubai, UAE
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from the movie Zaman Ya Hob, shot from his masterpiece "Esh Anta"
Jaber
elrabee3@gmail.com
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elrabee3
Oud Junkie
Posts: 264
Registered: 12-19-2002
Location: Dubai, UAE
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poster of his movie "Shate` el hob". same oud also.
Jaber
elrabee3@gmail.com
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elrabee3
Oud Junkie
Posts: 264
Registered: 12-19-2002
Location: Dubai, UAE
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poster of movie "Zaman Ya Hob".. i think in this movie Farid showed this oud the most.
Jaber
elrabee3@gmail.com
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elrabee3
Oud Junkie
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and in his concerts also.. i m wondering were is this PRICELESS oud now. 
Jaber
elrabee3@gmail.com
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elrabee3
Oud Junkie
Posts: 264
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Location: Dubai, UAE
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if i am not wrong. this is the 2nd oud that Farid was proud of, becuse i saw mnay pictures of Farid using this oud..
Jaber
elrabee3@gmail.com
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Alan
Oud Junkie
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Location: Tampa Bay Florida
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Daniel wrote
"The oud is of museum-quality, but it is also a remarkable musical
instrument, and I hope it wil be available to a musician whose skills are
worthy of it."
I hope this oud as beautiful and historic as it is, does not die in a museum. It would be better if it was played to continue to spread the beauty
and history within it. Maybe a fine replica can be a stand in for the cold glass case.
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Jameel
Oud Junkie
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If I'm not mistaken, Farid's brother (Foad) has this oud. Sidi can confirm this. His father has visited Foad and held the oud in question. Sidi posted
a picture of this meeting back in the days of the Farid-al-atrache.com forums. (you can still read some of the old posts and some of thw website here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20020705055206/http://www.farid-al-atrac... )
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elrabee3
Oud Junkie
Posts: 264
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Location: Dubai, UAE
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Jameel
If I'm not mistaken, Farid's brother (Foad) has this oud. Sidi can confirm this. His father has visited Foad and held the oud in question. Sidi posted
a picture of this meeting back in the days of the Farid-al-atrache.com forums. (you can still read some of the old posts and some of thw website here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20020705055206/http://www.farid-al-atrac... ) |
thats true Jameel, but fuad passed away couple of years back. so it could be with his son, Faisal.
what worried me is that i read before that Farid apartment was stolen and some of his ouds also stolen before Faisal sold that apartment.
for us, farid fans, this oud is part of Farid's heratige.
BTW, thanks for the link. i didnt know that the archove of Farid's forum is still online.
Jaber
elrabee3@gmail.com
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revaldo29
Oud Junkie
Posts: 418
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Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
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oud size
What are the dimensions for the oud that farid is holding in this last picture? It seems to me that the bowl is larger than many of the ouds I see on
this forum and larger than mine.
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samzayed
Oud Junkie
Posts: 485
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Location: Chicago, IL
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I always thought it looks big, because he was little guy. 
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Sidi
Oud Maniac
Posts: 94
Registered: 2-6-2004
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Mood: Very Sad...
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Hi,
I just want to thank everyone again for their contributions here. I'll resume posting on the subject tomorrow. Also keep an eye out for a full
thread on Farid's masterpiece!
-Sidi 
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elrabee3
Oud Junkie
Posts: 264
Registered: 12-19-2002
Location: Dubai, UAE
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Mood: in LOVE
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| Quote: | Originally posted by samzayed
I always thought it looks big, because he was little guy.
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actully that oud is big, if i am not wrong, it is the same oud that farid used in his famous vedio-recorded
el rabee3 concert.
Jaber
elrabee3@gmail.com
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elrabee3
Oud Junkie
Posts: 264
Registered: 12-19-2002
Location: Dubai, UAE
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sidi
Hi,
I just want to thank everyone again for their contributions here. I'll resume posting on the subject tomorrow. Also keep an eye out for a full
thread on Farid's masterpiece!
-Sidi |
i cant wait for that thread. and sory for changing the subject from Qasab's oud to Farid's oud. i appoligise.
Qasab deserve alot of respect from all of the oud lovers in the world. i remember i used to watch Umm Kulthoom concerts just to see him playing the
oud. 
Jaber
elrabee3@gmail.com
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Sidi
Oud Maniac
Posts: 94
Registered: 2-6-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: Very Sad...
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Hey Jaber,
Don't worry about it bro, we Farido fans just can help it...
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Sidi
Oud Maniac
Posts: 94
Registered: 2-6-2004
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Mood: Very Sad...
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In Reply to D.Donnell:
| Quote: | Originally posted by Daniel Donnell
Good evening, gentlemen,
Well, maybe I'm getting cranky in my middle age! Let's begin by
saying I am not interested in discussing early 20th century Egyptian politics in an oud forum. When I read through this thread the first time, two
things stood out a bit among all the very fine contributions (and thank you all!). One was that if I owned a great oud, I would be taken aback to see
people whom I might or might not know discussing what would happen to it after my demise. I could go Sufi on you and say we never really own such
things, but there are other websites for that kind of discussion. The other was that AS A THREAD within this thread I picked up on the disappearance
or dispersal of the Qassab collection and the re-appearance of at least one of them in southern California, of all places, where it was acquired by
Hamza.
About the shamsa, two thoughts:
I can read the maqam and the little band of numbers, and the signature in the center, and even the maqam groupings. What I cannot read, because the
calligraphy is very elaborate and the letters overlap, is the first band around the signature center, and this appears to be a dedicatory inscription.
Hamza told me, and this was a long time ago, that the person who sold him the oud had passed along the story about it once belonging to an amir in
Syria, but where the seller heard the story, I do not know.
I had a brief exchange with Rufie Richard Barnes about instrumental acoustics in general and about this shamsa in particular: the shams, which is 4
5/8" wide, is unusually large, especially when compared to Turkish ouds ... and it is bone or ivory laminated to a dark hardwood ... with a total
thickness well over 1/8". Even with much of this cut out for the calligraphy, this places a huge and rigid mass in excess of two ounces right in the
center of the soundboard. My thought is that this mass displaces much of the resonance of the primary tone, leaving the higher overtones in acoustic
"relief" as it were, which gives this oud its remarkable bell-like resonance. Think of the tabla drum of India with the layered-up rigid patch in the
center: the primary tone of the drumhead is diminished by the patch, and the other tones, the overtones or harmonics, are much louder as a result.
Now, I am not a builder, but I think this could be very useful information to those who are. A simpler way to attain this overtone-enhancing effect
might be to glue a ring of very hard wood around the shamsa on the underside of the face. In my humble opinion, luthiers pay a great deal of
attention to bracing, and not enough to other factors like the mass of bridgeplates and so on.
I'm tempted to address another sub-topic I see in this thread, about heritage value of such works of art, and where such items rightfully belong, but
I'l leave that one alone after mentioning there are two valid perspectives that contradict each other (there goes the Sufi again!): cultures sometimes
go off track, and destroy their own heritage (just look at what happened in present-day Afghanistan in recent years), so it may be a good thing that
so much of value lies n protected status ... but, when cultural artifacts and treasures are curated and collected outside their context, the
inhabitants of that context are denied access to something that gives them continuity in their civilization. Sometimes cultural treasures can be
re-introduced, however. For one fascinating example of this, John Baily at Goldsmiths College in England is currently re-introducing the music of
Afghanistan to its homeland from "exile" status.
I do go on a bit - good night! - Daniel |
Hello Daniel,
First I apologize for this somewhat delayed reply, and I thank you for the information you provide us with. I want to say that I never mentioned a
word about egyptian politics throughout my posts, and I don't think anyone else has. Naser's name was mentioned in the context of musical history. So for it's sake let me tell you that the Nationalist era coincided with Riyad
Sunbati's golden days. From 1952 onwards, he made some of Umm Kulthum's best romantic, religeous...and patriotic songs. Including his greatest ever
composition "Al Atlal".
Before I move on to the shamasa, let me make it clear that I have no specific intentions towards Hamza El Din. If anything I appreciate the care
with which -we're told- he treats this instrument, and I do wish him a long prosperous career.
As I've said before the shamasa contains no sign of any dedicatory inscription. I hate to talk about myself, but I must tell you that I speak and
write fluent Arabic. I'm also a former student of islamic arts and calligraphy. My instructors were Mr.Aous Al-Ansari, a renowned calligraphist and
Mr.Mustafa Mustafa, Dr. Ahmed Mustafa's brother: http://www.thecubeofcubes.com/artist/artist.html.
The bands are written in two styles: "Farisi" for the first 3 bands (outside in) and "Tuluth" for the 4th band where you believe the dedication is.
In the inner circle, Abdou Nahat's name is also written in "Tuluth" while the words "and sons" are written in "Farisi". Above them you can read the
words "Moutlaq Al Yakkah" again in "Farisi". Maqam "Yakah" is a varient of Rast. "Moutlaq Al Yakah" refers to an open "G" note. The 4th band
contains nothing more than maqam names (Rast,Hijaz,Asfahan,Buselik,Husseini,Nikriz...ect) You can ask Jameel for a clear picture of Al
Bardezbanian’s oud, where you'll be able to read the same scriptures on the shamsa.
I have an idea about who the elusive prince might be. I know a prince, who came from pre independence Syria. His father was a senior official under
Ottoman rule. Every time someone tries to sell an old instrument to a foreigner, they say it must've belonged to him. He settled in Egypt during the
Syrian uprising against the French, and later was crowned the King of Oud. His name is Farid El Atrache!
You mention some very interesting facts about the ouds acoustics. I’d like to get back to them as well as your remaining comments soon.
Thank you for this enjoyable correspondence. I also want to thank Jammel for making it happen.
I’ll see you all soon,
-Sidi
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Jameel
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1672
Registered: 12-5-2002
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Sidi, thank you!
I want to thank Sidi for his contribution to this thread. As always a wealth of interesting information communicated in a very enjoyable way,
including his clever photographic presentations. I think it's high time for a Nahat Museum, at least perhaps an online one. Maybe if I wasn't so busy
tinkering with my oud project (among other things) I would start one. Thanks again, Sidi.
P.S. Yet another example of the "maqamat shams"
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1370
Registered: 12-18-2002
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
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| Quote: | | Originally posted by Jameel... I think it's high time for a Nahat Museum, at least perhaps an online one. ... |
http://www.droud.com/nahats.htm
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Munir
Oud Admirer
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Interesting discussion. I hope I can help clarify some of the history related to Hamza's acquisition of his Nahat oud as I was with Hamza at the time
he found it. In 1969 Hamza came to Los Angeles to play a week of nightly sets at the Ashgrove, a coffee house that featured folk musicians. I took
Hamza to meet a friend and admirer of his music living in Venice, one Bobi Jackson. She told us that she had been admiring an oud at a local guitar
shop and took us to see it at McCabe's Guitar Shop in Santa Monica. Hamza, of course, knew immediately what a gem he had stumbled upon. The asking
price for the oud was in the neighborhood of $850. While this price was undoubtedly well below its true value even in 1969 dollars, it was still well
above the amount that any of us had available at the time. When the owner of the shop learned that it was Hamza El Din who was inquiring about the oud
he offered to sell it to him for $375 in cash (the amount he had actually paid for it) plus the gate from two weekend concerts (actually four sets)
by Hamza to be scheduled at his shop in subsequent weeks. They regularly held weekend concerts at the shop. I don't know what they took in at those
concerts but it undoubtedly covered the $500 needed to meet the asking price. Hamza and I returned the next day with the requisite funds, and Hamza
left the shop with the oud.
With that history stated I would like to say that I find all the talk about the obviously low price for the oud somewhat unseemly and certainly
misguided. The fact is the oud is extraordinary and perfect enough to be virtually priceless, and the 15,000 Euros paid recently for one like it is
also a steal. But the idea that the best place for such a musical instrument is in the hands of whoever can pay the most money for it I find vulgar
and shallow. Far more compelling to me is the reality that Allah Almighty intended the oud for Hamza and made it possible for it to reach him, a
penniless musician/traveler, through a combination of right people, right place, right time and the charitable good will of shop owner and others.
As regards the oud's earlier history several points need to be made. First, it was made in 1930, the year following Hamza's birth, not 1917.
Second, Hamza has no idea about who it may have been made for, who owned it prior to his acquisition, or how it got to California. Daniel, there is no
truth to the story you ascribe to Hamza that some Syrian Emir from Ottoman era was the original owner. What Hamza did conjecture was that it probalbly
came with a Syrian emigre (not emir), ouds being common cultural and physical baggage of Syrian families migrating to the New World. In any case, it
was made after the end of the Ottoman period.
Finally, Sidi, your conjecture that the oud previously was the possession of Qasabji may be true, but the neck of Hamza's oud is certainly
different and the shamsiya isn't pictured clearly enough to determine if it is the same as the one in Hamza's oud. A clearer picture would certainly
help. One problem I have with the notion is the state of the oud when Hamza found it. The face, neck and body of the oud were covered in years of
grime so that literally none of the inlay work was visible. How would this have happened had the oud been in use in the 1950s/1960s?
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1370
Registered: 12-18-2002
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
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| Quote: | | Originally posted by Jameel...P.S. Yet another example of the "maqamat shams" |
Nice Shams, Jameel. Do you have any info about the oud or more pictures of it? Or who has it?
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Sidi
Oud Maniac
Posts: 94
Registered: 2-6-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: Very Sad...
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Hi everyone,
I've had no chance to come back to this thread last week. I hope to comment on Munir's post sometime soon.
Thank you all,
-Sidi
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