Jameel
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Oud building: Question about long fingerboards
Questions for those of you with fingerboards that go to the sound hole (the shams). Is your fingerboard laying on top the soundboard (and if so, how
thick is it?) or is it flush with the soundboard (recessed into it). Maybe you could also let me know who the maker of your oud is that you are
reffering to. I aprreciate it. I am in the process of beginning my next oud project and am deciding on some small details to begin with. Thanks! Any of you oud makers out there, maybe you could tell how this is done. ( I know
Richard recesses it into the soundboard and lets it rest on the braces.)
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Zulkarnain
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Hi Jameel
My Bashir Oud by Yaroub has a long fingerboard and it is laying on top of the soundboard-its kinda thick too. This is same as my Bashir oud by Foad
with a similar thickness.
Hope that will help!
Regards
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mavrothis
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Hi Jameel,
I definitely think cutting into the soundboard is the best thing to do. I'm pretty sure my Najarian is built like this, and so you can make the
fingerboard absolutely straight, regardless of the angle or eventual changes that happen to the face.
I've seen several ouds with the fingerboard attached on top of the face, and this causes the fingerboard to angle down sometimes, making the
action pretty annoyingly high near the soundhole.
take care,
mav
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Mike
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Hey Jameel,
First of all, good news to hear you are finally starting your new oud project. 
I have both cases actually. Fathi Amin recesses and Maurice lays the fingerboard on top. Both are about 2 mm thick.
Good luck,
Mike
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Ronny Andersson
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The various Iraqi ouds I've played, (most Mohammad Fadel) had the fingerboards on the soundboard. Also Yaroub practicing same method as Zul said.
Best wishes
Ronny
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Brian Prunka
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I have a Najarian, and the fingerboard is on top of the soundboard.
Mav, I'm not sure what you mean about the angle . . . my understanding is that a fairly thick fingerboard placed on top of the face will allow
for modification should the angle change (i.e., you can plane the fingerboard so that the action is low again).
If the angle of the face changes, how would a recessed fingerboard help?
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mavrothis
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Hi,
If the angle of the face changes, and the fingerboard is on top, then it will change too, that's what I meant. If it sinks in towards the
soundhole, then the action will keep getting worse on the face (higher in other words). I think this is less of a problem if the fingerboard is not
directly on the face. If you plane the fingerboard, that would make the wood lower and the action even higher if the face sinks in.
My teacher has a Turkish oud where the fingerboard is on top of the face, and you can see it's angled down, following the face towards the
soundhole. It's newer, so this might get corrected over time. I saw in Egypt they did this on purpose allowing for hotter weather/humidity to
straighten it out, don't know how dependable that is though.
I can't tell how my naj is made, i guess we could ask Mr. Najarian and find out. It might very well be glued on. I guess if over time the
action gets too high, you can just replace the extension with a thicker piece of wood.
(sorry for the long post)
mav
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Jameel
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Thanks for the great responses. Sounds like so far there are four ways of doing it:
1. Recess the fingerboard and keep it flush with the soundboard all the way to the hole. If the soundboard dips in towards the hole, so will the
fingerboard and the action will get larger. (This, incidentally may not be a bad thing, since the strings vibrate more in the middle of their length,
and if the action was kept close all the way to the hole it may cause more buzzing)
2. Recess the fingerboard but plane it (taper) so the action remains more consistent (closer) towards the hole. This only applies if the soundboard
has a dip in it. If the face of the oud is flat, the taper would not be necessary.
3. Same as #1 only laying the fingerboard right on the soundboard instead of recessing. Depending on how thick you make the fingerboard, the nut will
have to be raised and perhaps even the bridge if the strings can't be tied high enough to allow enough clearance for a good action. This will
also make the space between the strings and the soundboard greater than normal, which may affect playability. This will be worse if the oud has a dip
in the face.
4. Laying the fingerboard right on the soundboard and tapering it as in #2, so the action is more consistent on ouds with a dip in the face.
Another question. How traditional do you think the long fingerboard is? It seems that most older ouds don't have it. I personally don't
think it's a big deal if the fingerboard begins to dip after it meets the body. It's not like there is a whole lot of playing going on way
up there anyway.
How about measuring the distance between the strings and soundboard right over the pickguard? My oud is 8mm. And the action at the body joint is 2mm.
By the way. Did any of you notice that Simon Shaheen added a full-length fingerboard to his Nahat? It was not recessed, but placed right on top the
sound board. I didn't notice if it was tapered.
I think a thicker fingerboard would not help the action over time, as Brian mentioned. The oud wants to fold up, so the action gets worse over time.
Planing the fingerboard would only make things worse, no matter how it attached. The only fixes are to tie the strings lower, or if it is really bad,
reset the neck lower and/or plane down the tail end of the back (lower the bottom end of the soundboard). I guess you could also glue on a thicker
fingerboard, but this probably would not be the ideal.
Just thinking out loud here, wow, what a long post. Whew!
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Brian Prunka
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planing the fingerboard would make the action higher, except that you can lower the nut as well, and the bridge if absolutely necessary. Most good
fretless instruments make the fingerboards much thicker than necessary for exactly this purpose. Lowering the nut and/or bridge doesn't work
very well without planing the fingerboard, because they have to be in a straight line. If the face has bent, then the angle necessary for a straight
line (without planing) would either give you high action towards the soundhole, or high action towards the nut. You need to have something to work
with in order to get a straight line along the fingerboard. Since generally one will plane the fingerboard along the neck to match the angle of the
face/extension i don't think it matters a whole lot one way or the other as long as the main fingerboard is thick enough to work with. I think
it's probably helpful to have a little bit of fingerboard to work with on the face, though.
Mav, what I don't understand is why this would be less of a problem if the fingerboard isn't on the face, but recessed . . . it seems to me
it is as much or more of a problem because it's much more difficult to make adjustments to the face than to the fingerboard . . .
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mavrothis
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Hi Brian. My thinking is that if the fingerboard is on the braces somehow, the face above the main soundhole can move to Mexico if it wants to, the
fingerboard will still be the same.
This doesn't help anything if the face sinks a lot on the other side though, between the main soundhole and the bridge.
I was just observing some problems on ouds I've seen.
Does this make any sense?
Jameel - I think either way you do it, you just have to do it well and probably over time keep an eye on it and do some maintenance. Also, M. F.
Shehata was telling us that he prefers one long single piece for the fingerboard, not two joined together at the fifth position. He believes that
allows a straighter and more consistent fingerboard, less buzzing.
What are your thoughts on that?
mav
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Jameel
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Brian,
Ok. I understand what you're saying now. I hadn't thought of lowering the bridge and nut along with the fingerboard.
Mav,
I remember Mike telling me once that Shehata's soundboards are flat, no dip. So this would make the long continuous fingerboard easier to do. But
if you have to contend with the dip, I'm not sure what the best method would be. I was thinking I would make my next oud with a continuous
fingerboard because it is easier, but now I am thinking that it may not be.
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mavrothis
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Right. Brian, I think I read your posts a little too fast man. I get it now. Sorry bro.
Take care,
mav
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Zulkarnain
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Hi Jameel
"Another question. How traditional do you think the long fingerboard is? It seems that most older ouds don't have it. I personally
don't think it's a big deal if the fingerboard begins to dip after it meets the body. It's not like there is a whole lot of playing
going on way up there anyway. "
The iraqi Oud soloist play all over the fingerboard (Ive seen Ahmed Mukhtar perform this way and also a syrian player, Ghassan Youseff) and Im sure
many others too..so I think it does matter to those ppl to have a long fingerboard.
Regards
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