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arsene
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From what I've heard - but I may be wrong - Ajam is (and was?) frequently used in Iraqi music... I don't know about Ajam in Persian music though. I'll
ask a Persian friend of mine about this.
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SamirCanada
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Ajam of the arabic maqamat is suposed to be refered to as
Ajam Ashiran when it starts on B flat.
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Brian Prunka
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Hey Adam, that's a great breakdown of the relationship between a sama'i and a taqsim.
As far as I understand it, Ajam is different in Arabic music from what you're describing. As a maqam, it's almost always Ajam Ashiran. It's
descending, like you describe, but doesn't employ the bayyati/ussak part. (though I suppose it could--it's relatively uncommon and I haven't come
across enough examples to say for sure).
I've encountered Ajam on C, G, and D, as well. C and D seem like they're ascending, while G is descending. These are so uncommon though, that it's
really speculation about the development.
A lot of the classical repertoire, as you know, is modified versions of Turkish pieces, so a lot can be extrapolated from the Turkish seyir. I think
using the term 'sayr' in Arabic is probably just imported from the Turkish to begin with. I'm not sure how widely used it is.
Arabic Ushshaq is like Nahawand on D, but with a whole step leading tone (C). It also uses both the minor and neutral 6th (Bb and B1/2b). The
development is Descending/Ascending: it begins emphasizing the 5th and descending through the lower jins, then ascends to the upper jins (using the
B1/2b). The notes supporting the lower D are B1/2b and C.
So the scale of Ushshaq is: (B1/2b C) D E F G A Bb (B1/2b) C D
So it's totally different from Turkish Ussak. Marcel Khalife's 'Boulis al Isharah' is basically in maqam ushshaq (though being a pop piece, it's not
totally strict in development). Some pieces that are categorized as 'nahawand' are actually ushshaq.
C.D.- So you're Saudi, huh? I guess that's why you like the term 'Arabian' 
there are a number of reasons why G# and Ab are different:
1. the notes in a scale are named using successive letter names, so you can't have two notes in a scale with the same name (the exception is synthetic
scales like the octatonic scale, which is a product of western equal temperament anyway, making the naming deliberately ambiguous).
Since Huzam already has a G, it can't have a G#. Key signatures merely reflect this practice, but are not the cause of it. This is a convention
which creates a useful consistency in music, especially notation.
2. Notes are derived from their relationship to one another. The relationships used are the perfect 5th, the major 3rd, and the octave (which allows
us to invert the 5th and the 3rd and get a perfect fourth and a minor 6th). Since Huzam doesn't have an E (major 3rd) or a C# (perfect 5th) it cannot
have a G#. Since it does have a C, it can have an Ab (major 3rd). This is a huge oversimplification, but you get the basic idea.
Incidentally, this fact is why it's not a coincidence that Ajam and Major have the same interval relationships. But what I think Adam meant is that
you can't just treat Ajam like Major, so it's best to think of them as unrelated.
congratulations on having read maqamworld.
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Masel
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| Quote: | Originally posted by adamgood
Well, the point is that the seyir is going to be the same, whether you're playing taksim or composing a piece.
In a composed piece of Uşşak, Beyati, Rast or Ferahfeza for example, from Hane 1 to the end of the teslim you will be shown the makam. Then
rest of the hanes are like Meyan or a time to modulate and show what you can do as a composer.
in a taksim of any of those makams, from the first note until the first karar, that is equal to Hane 1 plus the teslim. And then if you would like to
modulate, you can play Meyan and again, show what you can do as a taksimer 
and in taksim hopefully you are creating melodies that are characteristic of the makam. |
Ok a few clarifications before we move on please, what do you mean when you say karar, and meyan? Karar is the tonic no? If so what do you mean
"'until the first karar"? The way I was taught is to start a taqsim on the tonic (not absolutely straight away, but that each maqam has its own
openings), but the first emphasized note is the tonic. The only exception I know of as of yet is hijaz kar which starts on the octave.
Another question is I am not sure what ascending or descending means in relation to the maqams. I may or may not be following these guidelines without
realizing the ascending/descending categorisation but an explanation would be nice please.
Finally, if someone knows of a page explaining all the turkish makams (similar to maqamworld) it would be nice, because sometimes it's very hard for
me to follow all the million makams that have similar names but different roles.
P.s. from the little arabic I know, I know that ajam means west, and my teacher explained to me that it did come from europe. Nahawand though, is
named after a city in persia.
Keep it going!
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adamgood
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| Quote: | | Originally posted by MaselOk a few clarifications before we move on please, what do you mean when you say karar, and meyan? Karar is the
tonic no? If so what do you mean "'until the first karar"? The way I was taught is to start a taqsim on the tonic (not absolutely straight away, but
that each maqam has its own openings), but the first emphasized note is the tonic. The only exception I know of as of yet is hijaz kar which starts on
the octave. |
You could think of the words Karar and tonic being interchangeable but well, don't
seriously, Karar, if I look it up in my little Turkish dictionary translates as "decree" which is like a judicial decision or order. Or a final
decision. So it carries a bit more weight in my opinion than the word "tonic". The karar will be the final note of a composed piece or the final note
of a taksim.
some examples, the Karar for:
Makam Hicaz = the pitch Dügah
Makam Beyati = the pitch Dügah
Makam Muhayyer = Dügah
Makam Hüseyni = Dügah
Makam Rast = the pitch Rast
Makam Hicazkar = Rast
Makam Segah = Segah
Makam Hüzzam = Segah
Makam Saba = Dügah
Makam Eviç = Irak
Makam Bestenigar = Irak
Makam Ferahfeza = Yegah
Makam Sedaragan = Yegah
and on and on...
Regarding maybe why not to use the word tonic (I probably use it often by the way), some compound makams (makams made up of more than one makam) go
through a sort of series of makams before the karar. Those makams can imply different tonics along the way. Sedaraban is a good example, at one point
in the middle it implies heavily makam nihavend but in the end karar is on the pitch Yegah.
Oh and very important...many makams don't start from the same note as the karar (you mentioned Hicazkar).
Hicaz does, Hüseyni does not, Beyati does not, Rast does, Saba does not really, Ussak does, Segah does, Hüzzam does not, etc...
Then that leads into your next question:
| Quote: | | Originally posted by MaselAnother question is I am not sure what ascending or descending means in relation to the maqams. I may or may not be
following these guidelines without realizing the ascending/descending categorisation but an explanation would be nice please. |
You mentioned that Hicazkar starts at the high octave, correct. That's a descending makam.
Re-read my short description in an earlier post about makam Acem Asiran...that's also a descending makam, it will start on the pitch Acem and ends
(makes the karar) on the pitch Acem Asiran which happens to be one octave below Acem (the entry note).
The music speaks for itself, here is the great Pesrev by Neyzen Dede Salih Efendi (1818-1888)
http://www.neyzen.com/images/notalar/acemasiran/acemasiran_p_dede_s...
(this is turkish notation, for Arabic that first note would be written Bb)
The last measure of Hane one, the F (dotted quarter note) is THE karar for Acem Asiran. Note that the opening melody in measure one lays heavily
around the pitch Acem (the written F note)
perfect example of a descending makam. Hopefully it's clear what i'm writing.
| Quote: | | Originally posted by MaselFinally, if someone knows of a page explaining all the turkish makams (similar to maqamworld) it would be nice,
because sometimes it's very hard for me to follow all the million makams that have similar names but different roles. |
It would be amazing, there's nothing that I know of. It's interesting, there's enough interest in it that it would be a success. it's just so much
work. I predict within 3 years there will be one in English.
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TheCuddlyDevil
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You are all confusing me with your theory!
But as far the word "qarar", it means "decision". As in to decide on buying an oud. You will buy the oud, as opposed to simply "choosing" to buy an
oud. It's a stornger choice. Which led to the word "Istiqrar", meaning "settling" (noun, not verb). "Mustaqarr" means "that which is settled
upon".
Basically, I assume "qarar" is the original settling (don't know theory, but I assume the first note played) and the "mustaqarr" is the new settling
(I assume it's note you would end on).
My two cents.
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damascene_oud
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Dear Adam,
From my very humble experience, i know and was told by many well known music professors that Turkish maqams, though carrying the same name as Arabic
maqams, but they are different in two major aspects:
1-Modulation of the maqam, or what the Turks call it "darace"=darajeh, and thus playing those maqams in Turkish Music is totally different of Arabic
Music.
2-Names given to Turkish maqam differ from the same maqam in Arabic music, though they both resemble the same, like for example: maqam Ussak in
Turkish Music equals Beyati in Arabic Music, for reasons of difference in modulation and start point of the maqam.
As for names of maqams, it is a fact most of Arabic "and Turkish" maqams carry foreign names rather than arabic onse, with the exception of really
arabic invented maqams.
If you review the names of Arabic & Turkish maqams you will see the following:
Both Turkish and Arabic maqams carry Persian names, for example:
Segah, means the Third Degree, or Third Scale.
Rast, means the straight
Nehawend, named after a city in old Persia
Ferahfaza, means more joy
Yegah, means first degree or first scale. And it is what we call it "Ajam"
Dugah, means second degree or second scale.
Neva Eser, means the new track.
This reality enforces itself largely owing to the fact that development of musical instruments was largely done by Persian musicians. For example,
"AlFarabi" a Perisan scientist and musician who invented the oriental instrument "Qanoon" as we know it today, and laid the scientific foudnation and
rules for this instrument which are still used up till now in playing this instrument.
Writing music in its premitive form, was done also by another Persian scholar called "Abul Faraj Alesfahani", who wrote an encyclopaedia on music,
with lyrics and music notes.
Accordingly music in middle ages in the Arab World in general and in the Middle East in partucualr undergone major changes and development based on
what the Arabs had taken from their Persian counterparts, and then developed it to suit their own taste of music.
The word "Ajam" or "Acem" are two different pronounciations referring to one word which means Foreign, or in other words, anything but Arabic.
Acem means Persians, equally in ancient times, people from Byzentinium were called "Room" means Romans.
On the other hand, Arabs also invented many maqams that Persians and Turks had taken, developed and played, like: Huzam, Beyati, Hussayni, Ushak
"Ussak", Hijaz, Rahat Arwah. On their part, Persians took those arabic maqams and develped them to fit their own taste of music and mentality, and
ultimately they came up with new derivatives of those arabic maqams, like:
Hijaz Kar, Kurdili Hijaz Kar, Sozdelek...etc.
this is my point of view of this matter, and please feel free to correct me.
Cheers
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adamgood
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Thanks for the nice post...
I would love to see sometime a list of where each makam comes from, how it evolved, the origin of the name, etc...I think that's really fascinating.
In the same way that language study is fascinating. In the end none of those variables really matter but...it's interesting to me, something I
probably inherited from my father (an economic historian with an insatiable appetite for research).
I'm pretty sure Kurdilihicazkar is a Turkish invention as the name implies turkish origin: "Hicazkar with the (pitch) Kurdi." So, makam Hicazkar but
it uses the note kurdi (hicazkar uses more segah).
Ferahfeza i believe was invented by Dede Efendi (1778-1846).
as far as the more basic makams, I don't know, I can only take yours and other people's word.
My yellow Turkish makam book probably has lots of this information, unfortunately i can't read it.
really cool subject! if anyone knows more, please jump in
adam
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MatthewW
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| Quote: | Originally posted by adamgood
Thanks for the nice post...
I would love to see sometime a list of where each makam comes from, how it evolved, the origin of the name, etc...I think that's really fascinating.
Hi adamgood- I may be wrong, but it seems to me that maqams may have some of their roots in the older musical modes/ragas of India. From Wikipedia:
"From the ancient Sanskrit works available, and the several epigraphical inscriptional evidences, the history of classical musical traditions can be
traced back to about 2500 years."
You can find similiar usage of microtonal scales/modes in classical Indian music as in Arabic, which I believe scientifically/spiritually are supposed
to correspond and reflect the various subtle shades of human emotions, feelings and thought. whew! |
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arsene
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Hey Matthew, not (only) Indian raga, but probably Mesopotamia... Babylonian music was pretty much the basis for the music of the middle east, some
say.
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adamgood
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The Wikipedia article on Persian music is kind of interesting and related to what we're talking about. Not deep but check it out. you'll find some
very familiar looking names:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_music
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arsene
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Maqam Ajam was apparently widely used during the Abbassid era in Iraq...
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amtaha
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This is a tangential post. I'm not commenting on the main line of the thread, just TheCuddlyDevil's last note.
qarar does, in one of its meaning, means decision. But it also means "bottom of" in the sense of a pit's or well's bottom. There are also other
meanings.
http://qamoos.sakhr.com/idrisidic_H1.asp?Lang=A-E&Sub=%de%d1%c7...
In arabic music, jawab opposes qarar (a difference of a octave, with jawab being higher.)
Of course, jawab means an answer to the question or a gesture.
http://qamoos.sakhr.com/idrisidic_H1.asp?Lang=A-E&Sub=%cc%e6%c7...
I know that there is a further diction, like qarar al-qarar (one octave lower lower than the qarar) and jawab el jawab (one octave higher than
al-jawab)
I'm not sure about the linguistic choice of jawab to oppose qarar, but a cautious look into expanded dictionaries would have the answer.
Hamid
p.s. a further tangential - where is Al-Halabi? I really miss his inputs.
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neyzen
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Hi,
This is an interesting thread! I just wanted to post a link to a site which describes Turkish makams.
It is in turkish unfortunately, but there are still some nice things there.
http://www.turkmusikisi.com/nazariyat/default.asp
username: neyzen00
password: password
i hope it is of some use.
Murat
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damascene_oud
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Just a small word to clear the confusion in the wording things of "karar"
In Arabic this word comes in different forms:
1-Noun...means into English "Decision"
2-Adverb of place...means "lowest point" or the "bottom point"
Maqam Ajam or Acem, was mentioned in "Kitab Algahni"="The book of Songs"
the first comprehensive encyclopedia on Arabic Music ever written in the 5th century by "Abul Faraj Al Esfahani"
He mentioned the maqam Ajam as we know it now.
The word Ajam itself always was used to refer to Persians, their culture and even their products. Like for example: The Persian Carpets, are referred
to in the whole Arab World as "Sajjad Ajami"="Persian Carpets"
So in short, this word was always used, and is still used to refer to Persia and everything coming from that part of the world.
On the other hand, eveything coming from Europe, was referred to as "Room" {the arabic word reads the same as the word ROOM} and it means everything
coming from Europe. Though at those ancient times, there was nothing known as Europe, there was only two foreig counterparts known to Arabs as the
neighboring nations, Persia {which was part of the Arabic Empire} and Room which was a neighboring state.
From this i tend more to incline to the theory saying that it is a pure Persian maqam taken by Arabs, but surely believe that in Persian music and
equivalent to it is Rast like the Turkish Rast maqam.
And correct me if i'm wrong please.
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rebetostar
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Very interesting discussion, thank you!
I find that in this digital age we are concerned with trying to define concepts very precicely, to find the "one truth" with regards to this musical
tradition, when actually there seem to be many truths, some of which contradict each other..and of course that is because the music was and is
constantly evolving and changing over time, geography, different languages and cultures.
IMO both the Arabic/Turkish maqams and the ragas of India owe quite a bit to Persian classical music, of course the branches have grown their separate
ways. Even Persian music may owe some ideas to the Ancient Greeks. Ideas got around even in ancient times!
I think the Persian mode which at least shares the same intervals as Ajam is: Mahur. Interestingly, the word "Sayr" is also Persian.
Even the word "Maqam" or "Mugam" is claimed by the Uighur people of Western China..although it's meaning there seems more formally structured than in
Arabic music.
That's my two cents,
Cheerio!
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TheCuddlyDevil
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Just to add something, the "room" that damscene_oud refers to means "Romans".
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