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jaron
Oud Maniac
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neck joint buzz in mystery oud - 2 questions
First question: Can anyone tell who made the oud in the picture? Turkish with an Armenian vibe- and sounds really good. Good pegs, neck, etc...
Has been played a lot, judging from darkening on the face. Seems like a quality instrument, but there is no label- and yet I think I've seen the rose
design before...
Second question: There is a slight buzz right at the neck/body joint. The action is just great... But there's just a bit of a stairstep between the
neck and the face. I wonder if the wood in the face near the joint compressed over time and if the face puckered up a little right near the neck.
I am tempted to just sand it down. There is only a minute amount of rise between the neck and the face. I expect to be told that sanding would be a
terrible thing to do... So, what's the better idea?
Thanks
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jaron
Oud Maniac
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mystery oud back
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jaron
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mystery oud rose closeup
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Edward Powell
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Of course it must be sanded...
what you do is take a perfectly flat block of wood, plywood, particle board or whatever to use as a sanding block. It must be at least 25 cm long and
6 cm wide. Take a piece of 220 or perhaps even higher to play it safe (340) and glue this to one surface of the sanding block.
then remove the strings, and lay the oud down - and stablize it.
now sand the entire fingerboard.... you can also lightly draw some pencil lines all over the fingerboard and affected areas, so when you start
sanding, you can observe how these pencil lines are disappearing and thereby get an indication of how well you are sanding - as well as a more clear
idea about the problem area itself.
when sanding hold the sanding block firmly and steadily and with even pressure sand the entire fingerboard and affected area all at once. Start very
very cautiously and observe the pencil lines...
When you think you have made some progress, you can restring and check the sound result... if need be repeat this process until the problem is
solved.
Take very slight and cautious steps, and if not sure... stop and ask again for help.
good luck
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jaron
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Have enjoyed your dispatches from Cairo...
Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I can discern no problem at all on the fingerboard- it seems just about perfect to me. The only part I would sand is
the face of the oud, near the fingerboard. That seems like a more delicate matter.
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Edward Powell
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Of course, but if you follow my instructions very very carefully you will have no problems.
You see, your buzz is caused by an inconsistency along the path under the string. In order to correct this you MUST SAND THE ENTIRE FINGERBOARD at
once. Because if you only sand the area under the string which is on the soundboard (which is actually the PROBLEM area) then you will only create a
problem in another area.
The only way to correct this is to sand down the entire pathway under the string by as tiny amount as possible... this way you essential "resurface"
the entire string pathway - fingerboard and soundboard area that the string passes over top of.
get it?
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Edward Powell
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oh, I forgot to mention that in order to do this properly you also need to first take off the nut. That way when you are sanding the entire area then
your sanding strokes can slightly excede to top of the fingerboard.
oh course you sanding strokes ONLY GO IN THE DIRECTION OF THE STRINGS, AND NEVER SIDE TO SIDE... you must end up with a 100% flat surface under that
strings. Any dips or humps at all must be totally removed.
If you don't feel confident, then better to take it to a guitar repair person.
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WFBustard
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I have not worked on Ouds as such but in my experience with Baroque guitars and lutes:
IMO: If I understand the problem correctly-
If there is a small rise on the table(top) which is causing the problem, then I would check the FB to it with a machined straight edge.
Identify the area on the top and then using a fine blade carefully scrape it level to the FB in as small an area as needed to remove the annoyance. In
this way restoration of the finish may be easily matched to the original.
There should be no need to remove material from the Fingerboard as long as the straightness can be maintained. It may be that the buzz is actuallly
caused by the "hump"on the top and the FB needs no attention at all.
Problems such as this are hard to identify unless one can inspect the instrument in hand.
Good luck with it if its not bugging you too bad just leave it and play...
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Edward Powell
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Yes, this is correct - if the problem is a sort of warping upward of the soundboard. And for sure you should check it well with a perfectly straight
edge. The point is that the entire string path must be totally flat.
I was assuming that you are dealing with a small inconsistency on the the string path surface - but a warping soundboard is much more serious.
Yes, check it with a straight edge, and then if it is warped you might need to sand or scrape that lump into shape.
But I am pretty sure that finally you will need to at very least give it a slight light full-range fingerboard sanding. The thing about ouds -
especially turkish - is that the action is very low and will not tolerate any inconsistancy whatsoever, so if you have scraped or sanded one local
area it is almost impossible to have done that so perfectly as not to leave any, even microscopic inconsistencies in the ultimate flatness of the
entire string path.
Anyway, with an oud it is a good idea to resurface the entire FB very slightly from time to time anyway. Just thru normal daily playing the flatness
of the surface becomes compromised and therefore a slight full fingerboard sanding is part of every professional oud players annual or bi-annual oud
maintenance.
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Luttgutt
Oud Junkie
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Hi WFBastard!
I find your instructions rather pricise and well formulated :-)
I am a oud player, but I have also played the for a couple of years. And my guess is that what you know about lute repair applies 100% to oud.
I am wandering where you are located, if I may ask :-)
One more question:
I hear that a litle sanding on the sound board (not the hole of it, but just an area) can change the "sound" of the instrument. Is that true? what do
you think?
Jaron, my advise to you is to follow WFBastard's instructions!
By the way you have a nice oud there :-)
Good luck
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jaron
Oud Maniac
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This is an oud that showed up essentially for free. My wife had a complaint which I'm sure is familiar to many married oud players- that there just
weren't enough ouds in the house. I looked on Craigslist and someone wanted to swap this oud for something else- and I had an Irish bouzouki I wasn't
playing...
Am thinking I might try to "remove the hump." There is no finish on the top, so that is not an issue.
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Edward Powell
Oud Junkie
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but for sure take it to someone at least for a quick look before committing yourself. No one can truly advise you perfectly without seeing it.
on the other hand, so much of what I learned was done on cheap instruments in basically blind experimental fashion.
especially if there is no finish on the soundboard and fingerboard, you should be ok if you isolate/identify the problem, and then sand/scrape it
flat. JUST TAKE VERY SMALL STEPS AT A TIME, and check your progress.
let us know how you make out.
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jaron
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I did it!
Turned out to be easy. See picture- The lighter areas around the beard are where the "hump" used to be.
It plays beautifully now...
Thanks for all the advice.
NOW does anyone happen to know who made this instrument?
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paulO
Oud Junkie
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Nice score Jaron ! You might want to take this to Hank Levin and have him take a look at it. He could give you some ideas about how to fix it. Don't
sand the face, because sometimes these buzzes can be caused by errors in construction. Most builders know how to adjust the top with respect to the
neck so when tension is applied by the strings the top won't rise in this area, which causes a buzz. So do take it to have it looked at.
Good luck...Paul
Oops..spoke to late ! Good thing you didn't listen to me !!
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Edward Powell
Oud Junkie
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CongradS Bro!
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WFBustard
Oud Addict
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Luttgutt
Hi WFBastard!
I find your instructions rather pricise and well formulated :-)
I am a oud player, but I have also played the for a couple of years. And my guess is that what you know about lute repair applies 100% to oud.
I am wandering where you are located, if I may ask :-)
One more question:
I hear that a litle sanding on the sound board (not the hole of it, but just an area) can change the "sound" of the instrument. Is that true? what do
you think?
Jaron, my advise to you is to follow WFBastard's instructions!
By the way you have a nice oud there :-)
Good luck |
Well thats quite rude!
At least I use my real name.
sorry to everyone but I cant stay on a forum where such infantile persons engage-
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DaveH
Oud Junkie
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Er, I think that might have been a genuine mistake, and I think luttgutt's appreciation may well also have been genuine. It's a multilingual lot on
these forums and misunderstandings do occasionally happen.
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jaron
Oud Maniac
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Dear WFBustard,
I am grateful for your advice, and I hope you will give this board a second chance. It seems to me that Luttgutt was being sincere in his positive
statements.
People do occasionally state the opposite of what they mean for dramatic effect. For instance, I was kidding about my wife wishing there were even
more ouds in our house... But in the case of Luttgutt, I think there was a simple misunderstanding.
I agree with you that it's better when people use their real names...
Best,
Jaron
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Edward Powell
Oud Junkie
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Hi WF
I think you can be sure that it was an honest mistake. 100%
I'm sure he will speak up when he sees this...
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Luttgutt
Oud Junkie
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Hi again!
I am really confused here!!
I went through my text several times, and I cannot find anything offending in what I wrote!!
My appritiation was/is genuine (thank you DaveH).
WFBustard and I have exchanged writing before on this sight (you seem to have forgotten! IT was about you wanting to make a oud). And I read a couple
of your writings here, and I felt that you know what you are talking about. And it sounded that your advise to jaron was right (because he wrote the
neck and face were not alined). And I got skeptic to what Mr. Edward wrote. So I thought that I should help jaron on his decition!
I said that I play both oud and lute and that I think they are similar enough, so that your advise would apply to oud too!
I can't see what is wrong with that!
And I was wondring if you are located in Europ (not USA) because of our interrest in lutes, and because I am located in europ too. And I don't know
anyone who fixes lutes (or oud) around here. So I thought maybe ou live near by.
I am really sorry if I offended you in any way (though I can't see how). People have misunderstood me before on this sight. So it might be my
english!?
English is not my mother language, so I am never sure if I express myself 100%. But I think I do OK.
Best regards
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Luttgutt
Oud Junkie
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Hi again!
it seems that we writing ar the same time. Thank you Mr.Edward and jaron (and DaveH again :-) for thinking I was sincer, because I was!
About the name thing:
I thought that Mr. Edward Powell is the only one usin his real name!? It seems I am wrong...
Sorry guys, but I don't know if jaron, for example is a real name or not. And I don't think it is a problem. I just use the "names" that you present
yourself with.
Sincerliy
Guttlutt
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Edward Powell
Oud Junkie
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I have written guttlutt a PM explaining...
Of course, English is a problem sometimes, and nobody can be blamed.
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Luttgutt
Oud Junkie
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Hi Edward!
What is a PM? It there something I am missing on these pages?? Can you please explane?
Thank you in advance
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Luttgutt
Oud Junkie
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Oh my God!
I am really sorry!!! That was a very bad mistake! I didn't realize...
I sincerely appologize to Mr. WFBustard!
I don't know what to say... really stupied of me.
Hope WFBustard reads this and forgive me.
I guess I will not be writing here in a while 
Thank you Edward for your u2u...
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WFBustard
Oud Addict
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Thanks very much fellows. Well It never dawned on me that the spelling issue could be a mistake.
Or that language could be a problem...
You see Luttgutt the word "B'a'stard" is derogatory for some people(not to me generally)here in Canada.
Now my NAME- "B'u'stard is an ancient family name from the British Isles it comes from Gallic>>English>>Irish and is taken from Bird
Biology such as
FAMILY: OTITIDAE
Genus: Otis
Great BustardGreat Bustard
The Great Bustard, Otis tarda, is in the bustard family, the only member of the genus Otis....
, Otis tarda
Genus: ArdeotisArdeotis
Ardeotis is a genus of bird in the Otididae family.It contains the following species:* Arabian Bustard ...
Arabian BustardArabian Bustard
The Arabian Bustard is a species of bird in the Otididae family.It is found in Algeria, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Chad, Ivory Coast, Djibouti, Eritrea,
Ethiopia, Gambia, Ghana, Guinea-Bissau, Kenya, Mali, Mauritania, Morocco, Niger, Nigeria, Sa...
, Ardeotis arabs
Kori BustardKori Bustard
The Kori Bustard, Ardeotis kori, is a large bird native to Africa. It is a member of the bustard family....
, Ardeotis kori, subspecies kori and struthinuclus
Great Indian BustardGreat Indian Bustard
The Great Indian Bustard is a bustard found in India and possibly Pakistan. It is a large, brown-and-white bird, the male 122 cm in length and the
female 92 cm....
, Ardeotis nigriceps
supposedly
etc...But then again most likely there are distant relatives whom were, perhaps bastards
... but my parents were married. :-))
if there was a misunderstanding or a language problem in this case, I hope it is done. No harm in it.
The reason I wish to explore the oud and its music is to gain a better understanding of world culture/peoples.
Please Luttgutt dont think anything about it, I should have read between the lines and understood. I guess it wass becasue I ran into this problem on
another forum severel years back.
Im sure if we were together we could play some music and drink some tea.
cheers
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