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Author: Subject: Designing a Golden Mean based oud
WFBustard
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[*] posted on 6-6-2009 at 04:29 PM


I really enjoy the concept of this thread. Great graphics, planning and execution.
I was wondering if the Golden Mean idea is to continue into other areas of the design
- such as the neck profile(for example it could be used to determine -
fingerboard radius and neck contour etc). Decoration, peg shape...?
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Ararat66
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[*] posted on 6-7-2009 at 01:03 PM


Hi Alami

I'm still watching this one - really fascinating. You are a clever and exploratory person - what is your profession when you aren not ouding?

Cheers

Leon
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[*] posted on 6-7-2009 at 01:09 PM


I was just searching in internet various stuff and i found this one...Alami have you ever seen this instrument? It seems to be a Golden Mean Lavta (it is called a Nautilavta actually) and i think the result is succesfull ..

the link http://www.uweb.ucsb.edu/~ederer/misc/instruments/instruments.html (scroll down in the middle of the page)

Nikos
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Peyman
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[*] posted on 6-7-2009 at 03:41 PM


Those instruments are photoshopped. The idea is based on the Dreadnautilus guitars which used the ratios found in Nautilus shells (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nautilus) for the body. It's neat that these natural ratios are aesthetically pleasing to the human eye. I think Alami's oud will be neat!
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[*] posted on 6-13-2009 at 02:33 AM


Quote: Originally posted by Peyman  
Those instruments are photoshopped. The idea is based on the Dreadnautilus guitars which used the ratios found in Nautilus shells (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nautilus) for the body. It's neat that these natural ratios are aesthetically pleasing to the human eye. I think Alami's oud will be neat!


It will certainly be neat, the design by ALAMI seems great and Fadi Matta's touch is impeccable with no doubt!




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Greg
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7-3-2009 at 06:20 AM
ALAMI
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[*] posted on 7-10-2009 at 03:08 AM


WF, The Fibonacci spiral is reflected in the pegbox design,
The Hole size is in a volumic golden mean ratio relative to the volume of the bowl, it resulted in a rather smaller than modern oud hole (10 cm)
the fingerboard and bridge are regular oud design.

Leon, while not ouding, which is most of the time lately, I am involved in the creation of virtual images and visual effects that end on big or small screen, I have an engineering background (from long ago..)

The Golden mean has long been used in instruments making, this experimental project is an attempt to explore how this ratio can reflect in a oud design. Aesthetically, I like the design but on the sound side, I believe that no one can predict it before actually making the oud.

Fadi is putting a lot of time and effort in this task.
The mold was corrected to the exact dimensions and the ribs shapes were decided and tested as well as the neck and tail blocks final shapes, They will be big at start but will be internally trimmed and made thin and light once the bowl done.
the attached photos are 3 weeks old (I was away for a while) and more work-in-progress photos will follow soon.
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[*] posted on 7-10-2009 at 06:49 PM


It's looking great!!!
Congratulations,
MS
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[*] posted on 7-11-2009 at 01:46 AM


Finally, the oud is becoming a reality.
It is amazing to see an idea becoming real.
Fadi is doing an amazing work, I'll let the picture talk:

The bowl was the big challenge, small changes were done to the original curvature to accomodate what would wood "accept" to do.
The 21 ribs were all bent dry and fit.
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[*] posted on 7-11-2009 at 01:48 AM


The neck block was done from 2 pieces and trimmed thin after
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[*] posted on 7-11-2009 at 01:52 AM


The "Fibonacci" pegbox looks very sexy, hope that it wont cause a problem with the string. I think that the backwards curve can create a slight stress compensation to the the strings tension.
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[*] posted on 7-11-2009 at 01:56 AM


From virtual 3D design to real oud,
I just like these pictures so I am posting them, after all we all love oud pictures, don't we ?

[file]10151[/file] [file]10153[/file] [file]10155[/file]
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[*] posted on 7-11-2009 at 01:59 AM


and finally a photo of Fadi with the oud, you can imagine how grateful I feel to this fine luthier who's also a kind and modest man.
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[*] posted on 7-11-2009 at 03:13 AM


Congratulations ALAMI! Fantastic workmanship by Fadi. Very impressive.
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[*] posted on 7-11-2009 at 03:51 AM


Fantastic ! Please more pictures Alami.




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[*] posted on 7-11-2009 at 11:11 AM


Fantastic work!



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[*] posted on 7-11-2009 at 02:27 PM


Off the charts! This is really cool. Can't wait for the end results.
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[*] posted on 7-11-2009 at 04:27 PM


This is SO beautiful, what imagination and to put it into the real thing.
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[*] posted on 7-11-2009 at 06:36 PM


Dude..way to be patient ! This is too wild. Thanks for the updates and the huge amounts of persistence.

Regards..Paul
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[*] posted on 7-11-2009 at 08:10 PM


Amazing ALAMI!

Definitely belongs in an oud museum. Together with jdowning's work. Good to see some curious minds and people with enough courage to push the boundaries :)

And definitely good to see Ustez Fadi at work!
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[*] posted on 7-11-2009 at 09:21 PM


dear alami i ve been fallowing your idea and design since the begining and i am happy to see the results your oud looks very nice in curious if i may say i can not wait to hear how it s going to sound please keep us inform.
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[*] posted on 7-11-2009 at 11:57 PM


This has been interesting from the beginning and really happy to see all the progress made.


Mabrook and send us a sound sample one its completely ready.

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[*] posted on 7-12-2009 at 12:28 AM


Wow! I didn't believe it could come out nearly as close to the original CAD as it did. It really is an impressive work of art, and I can't wait to hear it! Congratulations!
MS
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[*] posted on 7-12-2009 at 03:17 AM


Fabulous geometry - can't wait to hear the sound - congratulation to both of you.

Waiting patiently

Leon
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[*] posted on 7-12-2009 at 07:16 AM


Congratulations Alami! It's a great idea.. and amazing to see that it's being really tested. Well done.
We will be waiting for the final result :) Fadi's work is perfectly impeccable!

I just want to ask you why is the pegbox designed this way? Almost all the strings will be touching several pegs, which is something usually avoided - this is why the pegbox is S-shaped.




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[*] posted on 7-12-2009 at 09:31 AM


This thread was started almost 2 years ago.
It was a simple, Sunday morning, experimental idea, the one that it is easy to neglect or forget once one is caught again by work and all the things of life.

But this idea was posted here from the start and on these boards it grew up, was kept alive and transformed by the members' comments, suggestions, encouragement and help.
Actually, investigating asymetry was triggered by a comment from Leon, the mold was was "copied" from John who gave me a lot of invaluable advice on board and off board, thanks John.

The project stopped for a while after I found the mold errors, I nearly gave up.
But every now and then someone popped the thread back and I was motivated again.
In this project, the community was the key to perseverance.

The sound is of course the ultimate quest and a total mystery.
Beautiful geometry does not necessarily lead to beautiful sound.
The shell shape is common in nature and it has the magic of reproducing the sound of the sea.
we'll see.

Regarding the pegbox shape, I couldn't resist the spiral, it just looks right, we'll see how inconvenient, or not, it'll be.

'
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