Mike's Oud Forums
Not logged in [Login - Register]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
 Pages:  1    3  4
Author: Subject: How to build a (cheap) homerecording studio
Aymara
Oud Junkie
*****




Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

thumbup.gif posted on 4-15-2010 at 01:12 AM
How to build a (cheap) homerecording studio


Hi everybody,

we already have discussions about pickups, microphones, recording devices, and often we read the question, how to record your own oud playing.

But lets do a further step.

With a little investment of a few hundred dollars, let's say around 300$ to start with, we can build up a Digital Audio Workstation (DAW), which enables us to make recordings in CD quality and even more ... we can do recordings that come very close to that done in a professional audio studio. usually such DAWs are very expensive, but nowadays it's possible to build one on your own with a very limited budget and a bit of reading ... you don't need to be a computer expert.

How about recording several ouds, though you are alone? And how about playing together with other instruments ... you might not even have available? ;-) Maybe you need percussion or want to play together with a flute? No problem ... play together with real instruments or use virtual instruments (VSTi), that will be simulated by the computer. Many VSTi are available free and sound very natural.

There are maaany possibilities, maybe you only want a bit of reverb like playing in a church?

So what do we need?

1. A good computer: In my case it's an 5 year old Toshiba notebook (1.5 GHz Pentium 4 with 1 GB of RAM), which would be the minimum, depending on the used software for recording. For several software, this notebook wouldn't be powerful enough. I think, most people have one, so I didn't count that in the above mentioned 300$.

2. An external audio interface: In my case it's a Tascam US-122 Mk II for around 140 Euros. This baby works as an external soundcard AND microphone and/or pickup input. But there are many other alternatives from different manufacturers and the choice is a bit depending on your needs and operating system ... check out, that the drivers from the manufacturer are up to date. For the beginning you can start testing with your internal soundcard, but most likely you'll encounter latency problems, which means, that playback and recording will not be in sync. Often this can be solved with special sound drivers called ASIO4ALL. But in my case it didn't work and an audio interface has much better sound quality anyway.

3. A good microphone and / or pickup: I myself would recommend a mic over a pickup, because first it let's the oud sound more natural and second it gives you the advantage of being able to record other acoustic instruments like percussion for example too and not to forget vocals. There are many mics on the market, but the best bet for our purpose is to choose a mic, that is designed for recording and not for stage. So a good choice would be a large diaphragm condenser mic, that has the reputation to be a good allrounder. A relatively cheap example would be the Audio Technica AT 2020, which you could get for less than 100$. But there are many other good mics on the market like an AKG Perception 220 or a Rode NT1-A for example. It's just a matter of your personal taste and budget.
And and not to forget ... you'll need a microphone stand ;)

4. The Software: A simple recording of only one instrument can be done with Audacity, which you can download for free and which is very useful as an audio editor, for example to change the file format of your recording to MP3. But the most important software is the DAW-Software itself. I myself started with Reaper for several reasons: First it's extremely powerful and can compete with very expensive solutions like Cubase or Ableton and second it's Shareware, which means in this case, that it is absolutely unlimited in the testing period ... you have all functions available and it will still function after the testing period ended. But the best is it's price ... for private use it only costs 60$ !!! ALL other powerful DAW software costs several hundred dollars. So I highly recommend to start with this software, if you never worked with a DAW before. A further advantage is, that they have a very beginner friendly forum. Oh ... and not to forget ... Reaper is only a very small download and needs much less system resources than most competitors. An alternative would be to check out, if your desired audio interface is bundled with a DAW software ... mine ships with Cubase 4 LE ... but usually Reaper is more powerful, because bundled software often is highly feature reduced.

5. A MIDI keyboard: If you want to use virtual instruments too, it might be very helpful to buy a MIDI keyboard ... using a software simulated keyboard can be annoying ;) A nice start might be a cheap Akai LPK25 for less than 40$.

6. The recording room: You should choose a room with "clean" acoustics ... no, the bathroom isn't the best place :D A room with a thick carpet is a better choice ... the less background noise, the better ... usually it isn't desirable to hear traffic, singing birds or playing children on your recording ;) If you want reverb, you'll mix that in the DAW software, where you also can configure, how much reverb you want.

I hope absolute beginners found this tip useful and others, who already used a DAW soon will find a growing pool of information in this thread, where we can discuss several equipment (incl. software) and/or recording techniques.

PS: As soon as I got my first professional microphone I'll upload sound examples here to demonstrate the possibilities and sound quality. So far I only tested my equipment with virtual instruments like piano, bass and tablas.




Greetings from Germany

Chris
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Aymara
Oud Junkie
*****




Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 4-15-2010 at 09:40 AM


HERE's a nice website with further introductional information about equipment (e.g. different microphone types), room acoustics and much more ... incl. photos and MP3s.



Greetings from Germany

Chris
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Peyman
Oud Junkie
*****




Posts: 496
Registered: 7-22-2005
Member Is Offline

Mood: Mahoor

[*] posted on 4-15-2010 at 11:07 AM


Thanks for the guide. I always wanted to have a simple home recording setup.
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Aymara
Oud Junkie
*****




Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 4-15-2010 at 11:35 AM


Quote: Originally posted by Peyman  
I always wanted to have a simple home recording setup.


Me too ;)

Further info will follow ... currently I'm a bit undecided which microphone will best suite my needs and taste ... just from reviews I read and test recordings of a dealer I tend to an AKG C 3000 B (beware, the C3000 without the "B" at the end is a different, older model and less good). It seems to be a good allrounder with a good bass responce, that will suit the oud well, I think.

Too bad my local dealer doesn't have it ... I need to order it online.

PS: This mic needs 48V phantom power like most recording mics too. So a preamp or an audio interface (like my Tascam) with phantom power is needed.




Greetings from Germany

Chris
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Aymara
Oud Junkie
*****




Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 4-15-2010 at 11:44 AM


Oh ... what I forgot to mention:

Most audio interfaces have a line out, where you can connect active monitor speakers. But I myself prefer recording and mixing with good headphones like the ones from AKG or Beyerdynamic, which I prefer over Sennheiser (my favorites many years ago).

I currently use a Beyerdynamic DT-990, though many people prefer the DT-880, because it's more linear. The 990 has a bit more bass and trebble.




Greetings from Germany

Chris
View user's profile View All Posts By User
fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
*****




Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline

Mood: m'Oudy

[*] posted on 4-15-2010 at 01:07 PM


Anybody who has wanted to record their music, listen up, as they say. With today's technology, given a computer, some cheap software and a briefcase of accessories (microphones etc) a determined person can produce recordings as good as what we hear on the most elaborate commercial CDs.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Aymara
Oud Junkie
*****




Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 4-15-2010 at 01:21 PM


Quote: Originally posted by fernandraynaud  
... as good as what we hear on the most elaborate commercial CDs.


Or even better, when we listen to many horrible produced CDs on the market nowadays, where "loudness" is more important than dynamics, just to mention one example.




Greetings from Germany

Chris
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Peyman
Oud Junkie
*****




Posts: 496
Registered: 7-22-2005
Member Is Offline

Mood: Mahoor

[*] posted on 4-15-2010 at 03:52 PM


I bought a book about 10 years ago about home recording. But didn't have enough time and energy to set something up. It's going to be easier this time around. The external audio interfaces are nice. I saw some in guitarcenter here in the US. I think I'll check them out again soon. They allow you to connect to the pc's line in. Seems pretty easy to set up. We shall see.
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Aymara
Oud Junkie
*****




Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 4-15-2010 at 11:30 PM


Quote: Originally posted by Peyman  
It's going to be easier this time around.


You can count on it, that it's not only much easier than 10 years ago, but also muuuch cheaper.

Quote:
They allow you to connect to the pc's line in. Seems pretty easy to set up. We shall see.


No, they are connected by USB or Firewire, depending on your PC (if it has a Firewire port) and the interface. Firewire has more bandwidth and you can record more than 2 channels simultaniously ... if the interface has more than 2 channels.

In my case the Tascam is connected to USB 2.0 and the driver installation worked like a charm in Windows XP Professional. But I heard Vista, Windows 7 and MAC users had some problem to get it running smoothly ... that's why I told to check, if the drivers of the manufacturer are up to date. I case of the Tascam ... there are new drivers released for Vista and Windows 7, so the problems should be solved, but I'm not 100% sure. Vista and 7 is often a bit problematic with many interfaces. It's always the best idea, to download the newest drivers and look if a new firmware for the interface is available too ... that's what I did ;)

Working with my Tascam is easy: I connect my headphone and a mic to the interface and can choose if I want to monitor the mic by the Tascam itself, the PC or both ... the monitoring by PC gives me the chance to hear also effects like echo or reverb. The Tascam also works like an external soundcard, that's why I can here effects too, if I configured them in Reaper.

With a preamp only interface this is not possible, because it doesn't work like a soundcard, but only as a preamp for mics and maybe pickups too.

If I want, I can also connect active speakers to the Tascam and use it as my main soundcard. But I prefer using the Tascam only for recording and composing in Reaper, where it is configured as the soundcard to use. In Windows itself my onboard soundcard is configured so I can hear system sounds and media player from the notebook's speakers. But for serious listening the Tascam gives me much better sound quality, than the internal Realtek. I can switch any time as I like in system settings.

As you can see a good interface with good drivers works like a charm. So read reviews and user opinions about interfaces before you buy. There are many forums and review sites about homerecording out there in the Net ... just google a bit.




Greetings from Germany

Chris
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Aymara
Oud Junkie
*****




Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 4-15-2010 at 11:49 PM


Hi again ... don't miss the Reaper Video Tutorials for a quick start, maybe even with your onboard soundcard.

Sorry I can't post the direct link, because the forum software changes the link :(

Go to the Reaper website, click on Ressources, then Wiki, scroll down to the end of the wiki page and in the Learning Resources section click on Tutorials.




Greetings from Germany

Chris
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Yori
Oud Lover
**




Posts: 15
Registered: 6-27-2008
Location: Sutton, Quebec
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 4-16-2010 at 03:23 AM


I own an AKG C3000B microphone and I recommend it. I use it to record almost every instruments and it sounds great (vocals, drums, string instruments and even a santur). If you cannot afford more than one microphone, this one is your best bet and is not too expensive (comes with a case and shock mount). I also use Studio V3 from ART as a preamp (a tube preamp) which includes a 48V phantom power.





Yori
Mundo Instruments
mundo.instruments@gmail.com
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Aymara
Oud Junkie
*****




Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 4-16-2010 at 03:49 AM


Quote: Originally posted by Yori  
I own an AKG C3000B microphone and I recommend it.


Thanks ... I'm already convinced ;)

I read many reviews like THIS and found soundsamples HERE ... I even found hints, that two famous german Rappers use this baby in the studio. Oh ... BTW ... the new 2009 model in black (now the name is again C3000 without the "B" at the end) is identical to the former C3000B in silver, except the color. I found this affirmed by AKG itself in one review ... sorry, don't remember the link.

I compared it to nearly every well known mic below 200 Euros and this one is the best for my taste. I even found a forum report of someone who uses the C3000B with my Tascam interface, which also has 48V phantom power.

For those people, who can't afford it, I think the Audio Technica AT 2020 ("medium" diaphragm condenser) and the Rode M3 (small diaphragm condenser) might be the most interesting ... maybe the Studio Projects B1 too.

BTW ... for those still undecided ... HERE's an interesting article about microphones for home recording.




Greetings from Germany

Chris
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Aymara
Oud Junkie
*****




Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 4-16-2010 at 07:45 AM


Hi again!

Quote: Originally posted by Yori  
I also use Studio V3 from ART as a preamp (a tube preamp) which includes a 48V phantom power.


Do you know the entry level ART Tube MP too? It's super cheap and I read very different opinions about it, from superb up to horrible. If it's good, it might be worth to combine it with my Tascam to get a smoother tube sound.




Greetings from Germany

Chris
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Peyman
Oud Junkie
*****




Posts: 496
Registered: 7-22-2005
Member Is Offline

Mood: Mahoor

[*] posted on 4-16-2010 at 07:52 AM


Thanks for the info Chris!
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Aymara
Oud Junkie
*****




Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 4-16-2010 at 01:59 PM


I forgot something very important ... Reaper is that cheap, because it only comes with some basic VST effects like reverb, EQ or delay, but no virtual instruments. Usually VSTi libraries are pretty expensive, but you can find many free on the Net.

HERE you'll find many free VSTi and some of them are really good ... just download a few and test them in Reaper. You assign them to a track as an effect (fx button) and can then record a MIDI track. Use the virtual keyboard as long as you don't have a real one.

PS: HERE are some more ... instruments & effects.

PPS: To use them, copy them to Reaper's plugin directory and restart Reaper.




Greetings from Germany

Chris
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Aymara
Oud Junkie
*****




Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 4-17-2010 at 07:55 AM


HERE I found interesting sound samples, where you can compare AKG's studio reference for vocals, the C414, with AKG's C3000B.

Sorry, the site is in German, but I think the table at the beginning speaks for itself ... Aufnahme means recording and Stimme means vocals ... the saxophone recordings are interesting too.

If we keep in mind, that the C414 costs 5 times the price of the C3000B, I would rate the later a real bargain.

PS: Windows Media Player is too stupid to play those WAV files ... use Audacity instead.




Greetings from Germany

Chris
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Aymara
Oud Junkie
*****




Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 4-17-2010 at 01:50 PM


I bet many are interested in a virtual Darbuka ;)

Found it a few minutes ago, so didn't try it myself yet, but definitly will.




Greetings from Germany

Chris
View user's profile View All Posts By User
fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
*****




Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline

Mood: m'Oudy

[*] posted on 4-17-2010 at 03:39 PM


Modern Digital Audio Workstations (DAW) can record sound data and MIDI on parallel tracks, like a multitrack tape recorder. MIDI is a recording of strokes that were played on a device like e.g. a drum pad with a MIDI connector, or a piano-like keyboard. An audio track that was played on an oud can play in sync with a drum track played by a virtual darbuka triggered by a MIDI keyboard or MIDI drum pads. The MIDI data is just "strokes", and the same MIDI data can play different sounds interchangeably. A pianist can play a synthesized french horn, etc.

There are string, wind, percussion and other instruments that output MIDI, and these are called MIDI controllers. Take a look at some of them:

http://keyboards-midi.musiciansfriend.com/midi/controllers

You can buy synthesizers, but why not let the powerful PC synthesize a bunch of synthesizers? Modern DAWs have "slots" that accept so-called VST virtual instruments that are programs that act as sound synthesizers, that will respond to MIDI that the DAW is playing, wherever it came from in the first place.

Finger pads are nice to play drum parts on:

http://keyboards-midi.musiciansfriend.com/product/Akai-Professional...

A good VST module will alter the sound in proportion to how strong the hit is on the MIDI controller, and there are ways to choose different drum strokes, etc.

With a collection of VST instruments entire arrangements can be played. A whole industry has developed around making the best simulated instruments. A typical piano, that is very hard to distinguish from a natural piano, might consist of 4 GB (!) of data that can be purchased for $200. This is much cheaper and takes up less space than the Steinway from which the sounds were sampled.

In addition VST modules include processing modules like echo, delay lines, filters, etc. Most of the commercial music we hear (good and bad) is recorded and edited on DAW systems, just as film and video are edited on worsktations.

Reaper, like any DAW, can be used with microphones as a high-power multi-track recorder without any use of MIDI or VST instruments. But the most important "processors", like filters, reverb etc. come in VST format as well.

Reaper has many of the features of the best commercial DAWs, and is worth exploring at no charge. People who are intrigued by this concept should look on Youtube by searching on MIDI, DAW, VST, Reaper Tutorial, and so on.

What Chris was saying is that (if you are interested) many virtual instruments and processors that are in VST format can be downloaded for free and tried out. They need to have their .DLL code modules in a common folder that the DAW program can find, the folder being usually called VSTPlugins. So activating or inactivating a specific VST is usually as simple as moving the VST's DLL in and out of that folder. Very handy for testing which %$#@%* module is crashing your DAW.

Virtual instruments/processors come in different formats. The VST standard is very popular. Those that are in DirectX or other formats don't work that way and have to be installed so their location is placed into the operating system's registry.

To illustrate the concept, the image shows a project in Reaper stopped at measure 18, with an audio track open above showing waveform of the bass line, displayed like an oscilloscope trace, and a MIDI track open below showing MIDI notes as little rectangles, with pitch vertically and duration horizontally.


ReaperAudMidi.jpg - 55kB
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Aymara
Oud Junkie
*****




Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 4-17-2010 at 11:35 PM


Quote: Originally posted by fernandraynaud  
MIDI is a recording of strokes ...


Thanks for your detailed explanations, Tony. I forgot, that many beginners might not know what the concept of MIDI is.

Quote:
The MIDI data is just "strokes", ...


And that's why it's easy to edit this data in Reaper. Imagine you played a MIDI track by keyboard and it is fine except one note being hit too late ... no problem, you open the midi editor and correct it with one or two clicks with your mouse. But you can also edit the notes if you have hit the wong one (maybe C instead of D) or the volume of the notes. Theoretically you can even compose a whole track in the MIDI editor, for example if your composition is more complicated as your fingers are able to play on the keyboard.

Quote:
A typical piano, that is very hard to distinguish from a natural piano, might consist of 4 GB (!) of data that can be purchased for $200.


Right, but besides that, many high end VSTi are available free.

AND ... Reaper also has a plugin, that enables you to use your own samples.

Image you take a glass of water and hit it slightly with a tuning fork to tune it to A by filling in the needed water level. Then you record this "pling" with a microphone and use this short recording as a virtual instrument in Reaper. Then you can play melodies with this sound and have some kind of strange xylophone.

Quote:
In addition VST modules include processing modules like echo, delay lines, filters, etc.


These are called VST (virtual studio technology), while virtual instruments are called VSTi.

Quote:
Most of the commercial music we hear (good and bad) is recorded and edited on DAW systems, just as film and video are edited on worsktations.


Yes, while Photoshop is the tool for photographers, DAWs are the tools of sound/music engineers.

Quote:
Very handy for testing which %$#@%* module is crashing your DAW.


Such crashes occur, if a VST is buggy, which is seldom. But each VST needs processor time and RAM, so if you use more VSTs than your PC performance can process simultaniously, the DAW software encounters problems ... usually the sound stutters or the DAW might even crash/freeze. A common problem with ressource intensive free VSTs is, that you encounter performance problems, when you use the same VST on several tracks. I have a fantastic grand piano VSTi, that works like a charm as long as I only use it on one track. If I use it on two, they sound begins to stutter.

This all is the reason, why often it is recommended to use a high end PC as a DAW. But even with my old notebook I am able to process a minimum of 10 tracks as long as the VSTs are good.

But I think most oud players will use less tracks ... maybe 1 or max. 3 ouds and maybe the same amount of percussion tracks, so Reaper should work like a charm even if your PC isn't the newest model.




Greetings from Germany

Chris
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Aymara
Oud Junkie
*****




Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 4-22-2010 at 12:18 AM


Hi again,

yesterday I recieved my AKG C 3000 studio microphone.

It comes with a very nice aluminium hard case and a shock mount "spider". And as it seems AKG considers this mic as a professional one, because in opposition to the Perception series, which lies in the same price range, this baby isn't manufactured in China, but in the headquarters in Austria. I also found out, that many pro studios use this mic, when a good bass response is needed ... too bad, that I don't have a chance to test it with a double bass ;)

So far I only found the time for a quick test ... I just monitored the mic with headphones through my audio interface and gave it a short test with my voice first ... man, I didn't knew, I have the potential to become a Radio moderator :D ... then my 12-string western guitar and shurely my oud too.

First impression: This mic is a real bass monster, but with the highpass filter kicked in (6 dB below 500Hz) it reveals a more balanced, "linear" sound. And it is extremly sensitive ... I placed the mic on the armrest of my sofa and sat in front of it playing oud ... you could here my breathing through the nose. I think, I will need a pop filter not in front, but above the mic ;)

As it seems, it is very important to find the right placement of this mic ... if it's too close to a soundhole the bass blasts you away :D But I should mention, that my oud has a very deep bass itself, because of the rosewood body.

I hope to find more time for testing at the weekend and will post some audio test files then.

Regarding this first test, I think this mic has the potential to be a good allrounder, but as it seems EQing for each different purpose is essential, especially in a mix with several instruments.

PS: I forgot to mention, that the mic is extremly noise free!




Greetings from Germany

Chris
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Yori
Oud Lover
**




Posts: 15
Registered: 6-27-2008
Location: Sutton, Quebec
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 4-22-2010 at 06:03 PM


Hi Chris,

I'm happy you are satisfied with the purchase of your new microphone. I never regretted my choice.

As you must know, it is important to find the right placement for any mic you use. The placement of the mic (with the right choice of microphone for the instrument to record) AND the room in which you record are the most important things to consider for achieving a good recording. Starting from there, anything is possible.

Well, the quality of the instrument and the musician who plays it are quite important also...:)) Enjoy!




Yori
Mundo Instruments
mundo.instruments@gmail.com
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Aymara
Oud Junkie
*****




Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 4-23-2010 at 12:00 AM


Hi again!

Quote: Originally posted by Yori  
I'm happy you are satisfied with the purchase of your new microphone.


Thanks!

Well for sure it's a great high quality mic, but it also is a very special mic with a special character, because of it's veeery good bass response, which is the reason, that some people like it very much and many people hate it, calling it too dark sounding.

It is very warm sounding, but with the low-cut filter switched on, it is noticably more neutral.

Combined with EQ settings in the DAW software it should be a great allrounder. But we will see, what I will find out by further testing.

Quote:
As you must know, it is important to find the right placement for any mic you use.


Yes, shure, but I read some opinions about the C3000B, that it should be used on acoustic guitars not at close range, but at a higher distance of 50-100cm to achieve best results.

Also very interesting seems a hint from AKG itself, I found on their website. For nylon guitar (oud should be similar) they recommend to combine the C3000B with a small condenser like the C1000B, where the C3000 should be placed near the soundhole and the C1000 slightly above the neck joint. They told, that such a combination would achieve the most realistic professional studio recording. When we have a look at the frequency response curves of both mics at AKG's website, this seems plausible ... the C1000 seems to be a good choice to capture overtones.

That might be an interesting thought for the future. But first I will thoroughly test the C3000B ... different positions, distances and EQs ... because I think, this mic has more potential as might be heared in first tests.

Quote:
Well, the quality of the instrument and the musician who plays it are quite important also...:))


Well, I like the warm sound of my oud very much, that's why I searched for a mic, that can handle it's bass, but I myself am still a beginner ... though keeping in mind, that I started playing oud in November, I think I'm not the worst oudist (because I played guitar before) ... you'll hear it soon ;)

I hope people won't be shocked here in the forums ... I don't play arabic music ... I'm more Rock orientated.

PS: HERE's a nice article about micing acoustic guitars, especially with two mics, that will be very helpfull in oud recording too. But even if using only one mic, we can learn, which position has which advantages and downsides.




Greetings from Germany

Chris
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Aymara
Oud Junkie
*****




Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 4-23-2010 at 10:34 AM


Hi again,

I did a first test recording ... this time I placed the mic near the end of the neck ... nearly perfect, less bassy, more overtones, sounds very natural even without EQ.

BUT ... the C3000 is that sensitive, that I have my breathing and the metronome I listened to on my headphones in the recording ... grrr. Next time I'll use in-ear headphones and I'll have to build some kind of windshield, I can place between mic and my nose :D

A bit of a hassle to get everything right, but I'm going to love this mic ... sounds great.




Greetings from Germany

Chris
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Aymara
Oud Junkie
*****




Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 4-24-2010 at 01:53 AM


Hi again,

after my first recording test yesterday, I began analysing the recorded signal and did a bit of research about the frequency range of nylon guitars, which are very similar to oud.

I think it might be helpful to others to share my findings, because I learned a bit more about equalization and microphone choices to improve recordings of our beloved instrument.

First let's have a look at the frequency ranges of the strings of electric bass guitar, acoustic guitar and oud, assuming we tune to a = 440 Hz:

bass guitar:
E1 - 41,4 Hz
A1 - 55,0 Hz
D2 - 73,4 Hz
G2 - 98,0 Hz

guitar:
E2 - 82,4 Hz
A2 - 110,0 Hz
D3 - 146,8 Hz
G3 - 196,0 Hz
B3 - 246,9 Hz
E4 - 329,6 Hz

oud (arabic tuning):
C2 - 65,4 Hz
F2 - 87,3 Hz
A2 - 110,0 Hz
D3 - 146,8 Hz
G3 - 196,0 Hz
C4 - 261,6 Hz

The highest C5 on the high c-string at the end of the neck is 523,2 Hz.

So the main frequency range (without overtones) we record is between 65,4 Hz and 523,2 Hz ... pretty low ;)

If we keep this in mind and compare this to the frequency response curves of microphones, it seems, that theoretically most mics are a bad choice for oud. For example let's have a look at the Rode M3, which many people seem to love for stage and even studio:



As we can see, the response drops to -10 dB at 60 Hz (starting at around 250 Hz).

Let's compare this to an AKG Perception 220, which is very linear in the oud's frequency range:



Here the bass drop off starts at 80 Hz and has -2 db at 60 Hz.

And now let me show you, why I got so curious about the AKG C3000B:



Here the range between 60-700 Hz is raised by +1 dB and drops to 0 dB at 1 kHz.

As you can see, it can make sense to check the frequency response curves of mics to find the ones, that are worth testing in a local music shop.

To improve a recording by equalization I researched in which frequency ranges we should expect the overtones and unwanted noises like breathing, screetching string noise, string buzzing and plucking noise caused by the risha ... you might remember our risha discussion, where we found out, that plastic gives a clicking noise and horn sounds smoother.

To find info about the overtones was most difficult ... I only found hints, that they reach up to around 10 kHz on nylon guitars.

Regarding the rest I was more lucky ... I found a list with equalization tips (how much to raise or drop these ranges) from a german pro studio:

900 Hz - fretless sound of fretless bass guitar (+ 3 dB)
1.5 kHz - plectrum clicking sound (-/+ 3 dB)
3-4.5 kHz - string buzzing (- 10 dB)
5 kHz - string screetching / gripping noise (- 3 dB)
10-11 kHz - breathing noise (- 3 dB)

To improve the bass of an acoustic guitar, it was recommended to raise the 80-100 Hz range (would be 60-100 Hz on oud) by up to + 3 dB and lower a small range around 250 Hz by - 2 dB, if it sounds too boomy.

I thought it might be interesting to share these findings here, before I test it myself ... let's share our experience to improve our recordings ;)




Greetings from Germany

Chris
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Aymara
Oud Junkie
*****




Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 4-26-2010 at 11:52 AM


Hi again,

at the weekend we visited a medieval market, where I found a nice wristband with small bells and I thought, it might be a nice percussion instrument.

And, yes it is ... listen yourself ... I created a short beat with virtual tablas and the recorded bells and put a slight stereo effect on the bells (the tablas are mono so far). No further effects used.

This should give you a first impression of the sound quality of the above mentioned equipment. If you have good ears and audio equipment, you might notice a slight humming noise on the bells track ... the microphone was placed too close to my notebook.

bells.jpg - 332kB

Attachment: Tabla-Beat.mp3 (631kB)
This file has been downloaded 278 times

Stay tuned ... oud recordings will follow soon ... it's not easy recording with microphone in my house ... too often noise ... grrr.

PS: The MP3 is in 320 kbps for best audio quality.




Greetings from Germany

Chris
View user's profile View All Posts By User
 Pages:  1    3  4

  Go To Top

Powered by XMB
XMB Forum Software © 2001-2011 The XMB Group