oudy allen
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Need help - Which tune is this?
Hey guys,
Since I'm quite new into playing the oud yet I need some help regarding a special tuning. I own a Sukar oud and have tuned it currently C G A d g c.
I've seen a video on YouTube showing a guy playing exactly the songs I want to play on the oud.
The problem is, I don't know how he has tuned his instrument. It's obviously not the above tuning. Could somebody tell me, which kind of tuning this
is? Is it Iraqi style?
Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsmbumQmhbw&list=UUxSocrihdt-NKP...
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Jody Stecher
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He is tuned slightly higher than Bb (or C) F G c f b flat. This is the same tuning you are using but lower. I just watched 5 videos of this player
using different ouds and he stays in the same tuning although the actual pitches he tunes to vary. In the video to which you provided a link I don't
think he uses the bass string so I can't say for sure about that one. He is tuned between a half and whole step lower than you but with the same
arrangement, the same intervals between the strings. The four highest pitched courses are tuned in fourths just as in every other oud tuning. The
fifth course is tuned an octave below the second course. The bass will be either an octave below the the third course or two octaves below the first
course. So where you use (for instance) A for your fourth course he is tuned here a bit higher than G but not as high as G #. But it's really your
familiar tuning with the strings slacker, that's all.
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oudy allen
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I really appreciate your help. Thank you very much. Before I'm going to give it a try on my oud, please kindly tell me if this player uses the same
tuning as the first one I showed you above:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERg28xwq2o0&feature=related
It seems to me that he also uses a slightly lower tuning than I do, doesn't he?
Have a nice evening!
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Jody Stecher
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Read my reply again please. Yes he's tuned lower than you in the video in question. It is the relationship between his strings that is the same as
your usual tuning, not the actual pitches. your highest string pair (course) for instance is C. His highest course is close to B flat. Let's call it
B Flat. Your next course down is G. His is F. Look at the relationship between your two highest courses. The interval between G and C is a perfect
fourth. G A B C = 1 2 3 4. Now look at the intervals between *his* highest two courses. F G A B flat. a perfect fourth. And so on for all the
courses. Still not clear? OK. Play the video and when you see him play an open course, tune that same course on your oud *down* to that pitch. Now
stop the video and tune the rest of your oud so that the strings are in the same relationship to each other as they were when your oud was tuned
higher (to C G A d g c). You will now be in tune with him.
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Jody Stecher
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WHOOPS. sorry, my mistake. I hadn't clicked the link and misunderstood and thought you were asking about the player in your original link. Yes this is
the same tuning but not as low as the first player but still lower than your tuning. But the same relationship of pitches.
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oudy allen
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Hehe... yeah that's what I was talking about  ok, great I've just tried that
tuning you told me and it sounds quite the same as in the first video. Aside from the Iraqi style tuning, are the relationships between the courses in
arabic tunings always the same? I mean is the only difference how high or low you pitch the tuning or are we just talking about one particular tuning
relationship (classic arabic tuning)?
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Jody Stecher
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There are any number of forum members more expert than me and they may give more complete or precise answers but since you asked *me*: This is
typical old style Armenian-Turkish tuning. This is Kurdish music and this is the first time I've heard it with oud, and I like it. The Kurdish area
(Kurdistan) straddles the political borders of Turkey, Iraq, Syria, and Iran. The musicians in the videos seem to be in Iraq but political entities
come and go and Kurds remain Kurds. The most common Arabic tuning these days is like the one you use but with the fifth course down one step to F.
"Iraqi tuning" may refer to the arrangement where the bass course is moved from the usual position closest to the sky and placed in the position
closest to the earth. Sometimes "Iraqi tuning" means that it is the arrangement of arabic tuning but a fourth higher so the highest (and lowest)
pitch is F. The bass course may be moved or not. Jamil Bashir had both of the characteristics I just mentioned but one step higher (G). Some players
who lived in Iraq used the usual Arabic tuning. So "Iraqi tuning" may mean different things or overlapping things. The tuning you use may be used in
Arabic music. Also D G A d g c. Just like your tuning but with the bass up one step. Also your tuning with the fifth course at E. Check out the
*search* function on this website and you can get a lot of info about tunings in detail. But really all tunings I have seen or heard amount to the
same thing: the four courses that are highest in pitch are always in 4ths. Anything lower is tuned according to maqam, or according to local custom,
or according to how much pressure a particular oud can withstand, or according to the gauge of string available, or according to other circumstances.
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oudy allen
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Thanks a lot Jody. Yes you're right. The players in the videos are from Iraqi Kurdistan. Besides saz, kemence, daf, bouzouq and other typical middle
eastern instruments, the oud is also very common in Kurdish music, especially in the Iraqi and Iranian Kurdish areas. 
If you want you can check these out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaaKjD7NTY8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCGk_a9ooNE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVClzcdwclw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNAVodCz8iU
You said Armenian-Turkish tuning but I've always thought that Armenian-Turkish tuning was pitched much higher than Arabic tuning. The tunings in the
videos I showed you are even lower than the standard Arabic tuning I use. How come that they are Armenian-Turkish style?
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Jody Stecher
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I was talking about the relationship of the strings. The absolute pitch is not essential to the identity of the tuning. Higher pitch might be
determined by the voice of a singer or other circumstantial conditions. Yes most Turkish ouds have a shorter vibrating string length) so higher pitch
is what usually is chosen.
In early 20th century a typical Turkish oud player (who might be Greek or Jewish or Armenian) didn't think of the second course as A or G. It was
Neva. So C G A d g c and D A B e a d are the same tuning. Here in the usa this is the usual tuning used by the descendants of Armenian immigrants
and by their students. Nowadays in Turkey the common tuning (especially for Ottoman music) is all fourths. if Neva is *a* then the tuning is C#F# B e
a d. Only the two lowest courses are different than the older tuning which in my message I characterized as "armenian-turkish" to telegraph an idea.
As to why Kurds would use this tuning it's an old tuning from the region and handy for the repertoire. the newer tuning of all fourths gives an
extended range but that is not necessarily an advantage for the kind of music on these Kurdish videos.
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oudy allen
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Hey Jody, well you opened my eyes because I had not looked at the different kind of tunings from this point of view. I'd always thought that the
tunings were fundamentally different from each other but actually they are not since, as you've already pointed out, only their pitch is different.
The relationship between the courses (at least the first four courses) remains always the same (in 4ths). Now everything makes much more sense. Thanks
a lot for this lesson 
Can you say that oud players always stick to this particular relationship?
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Jody Stecher
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You might want to ask someone more knowledgeable than me. But so far, I've encountered no oud tuning that deviates from the four highest courses
being in fourths. Well, let me qualify that — there are some four course double strung oud-like instruments in Tunisia and Algeria that have
"reentrant" tunings which means that the courses do not progress steadily upward (Or downward if you count the other way). The "Oud Arbi " of
Constantine is one such. And then there are various versions of kwitra. Thanks for the links to the Kurdish oud music, I enjoyed listening.
Quote: Originally posted by oudy allen  | Hey Jody, well you opened my eyes because I had not looked at the different kind of tunings from this point of view. I'd always thought that the
tunings were fundamentally different from each other but actually they are not since, as you've already pointed out, only their pitch is different.
The relationship between the courses (at least the first four courses) remains always the same (in 4ths). Now everything makes much more sense. Thanks
a lot for this lesson
Can you say that oud players always stick to this particular relationship? |
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oudy allen
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Fine, thank you so much. As for the Kurdish oud music, you are more than welcome. Cheers!
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