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jdowning
Oud Junkie
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Here are the results of the tests of the varnished 'Sufix' 12# braided nylon/lead core line.
Vibrating string length 60 cm, pitch standard A440, string outside diameter 0.52 mm.
Approximate tension range measured for bass string is 3 Kg to 2 Kg.
B 124Hz - tension 3.1 Kg
A# 117Hz - tension 2.8 Kg
A 110Hz - tension 2.4 Kg
G# 104Hz - tension 2.2 Kg
G 98Hz - tension 1.9 Kg
Sustain ranged from about 15 seconds at the higher tension to about 12 seconds. Bright sound.
This is a compound string so the linear density works out to about 6450 Kg/m³. (This compares with 5650 Kg/m³ for the 27# braided/lead core and 3295
Kg/m³ for the 63# braided/lead core strings previously tested)
As repair to my A470 camera is not now an economic proposition it has been replaced with a Canon PowerShot Elph 135 'point and shoot' (the 'older'
cameras are now coming on the market at reduced cost). This camera focusses down to 1 cm but does not seem to be as good for macro work as the older
A470 even with its higher resolution sensor but I still need to mess around with lighting etc. to obtain best results
Here, for what it is worth, is a hand held macro shot of the varnished 12# varnished string (0.52 diameter with some white dust!). Not as uniform as
the previous test strings so perhaps only a single coat of varnish would have been sufficient due to the relatively thinner braided sleeve?
[file]33018[/file]
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jdowning
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With the 12# varnished line removed from the test rig, a few more attempts were made to produce a reasonably clear macro image of the string using my
relatively low cost equipment. The Canon Elph 135 although capable of focussing down to 1 cm (lens to object) only a relatively small central section
of the image (about 1/3 of the full image width) is in sufficient focus to be used by cropping the full size image. Rather disappointing.
Note that the string outside diameter in this image is only 0.52 mm.
I had noticed some 'falseness' of the string on the test rig (i.e. with the string sounded open or unstopped) judging from the slightly uneven string
vibration along its length.
The attached macro image of the coiled string may show the reason why - although it looks a lot worse than would otherwise appear to the naked eye.
The bottom string section exhibits 'hairiness' due to surface fracture of the filaments in the braid. This may have occurred when the string was wiped
prior to removal from the rig - or the filament breakage occurred when the string was loaded and varnished - not sure. The middle string section in
the image seems to be flattened and not perfectly round. This may be an optical illusion but I suspect is an actual deformation perhaps occurring
during manufacture or when wiping varnish on the string?
Or it may be that the oil varnish coating was not sufficiently dried before handling the string? All factors to be examined when making the next -
hopefully more successful - test string of this size!
[file]33066[/file]
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
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There are two early sources previously mentioned in this thread that provide some information about the construction of silk oud strings - 10th C
'Ikhwan al-Safa' and 14th C Persian 'Kanz al-Tuhaf'.
The implication of the silk thread count per string given by the Ikhwan al-Safa for their 4 course oud (27, 36, 48 and 64 threads) has already been
discussed. The silk thread count increases by the sacred harmonic ratio of 4:3 as does the pitch increase between courses (a perfect fourth apart) for
plain silk strings at equal tension. However, simply twisting bundles of silk threads of equal diameter with those thread counts does not give the
required string diameters except for the first two courses. As a consequence, it is proposed here that the third and fourth courses might have been of
braided construction (without a metal core) in order to achieve the required string diameters according to the Mersenne-Taylor Law (a mathematical
relationship understood by the IKwan al-Safa).
Looking again at the 'Kanz al-Tuhaf' translation provided by Dr G.H Farmer the string thread count given for a 14th C five course oud is: 16, 24, 32,
48, 64. In this case the thread count increase from treble to bass string is 3:2, 4:3, 3:2, 4:3 - so introduces that other sacred harmonic ratio of
3:2. From a numerical perspective there is yet another sacred harmonic ratio of 2:1 (i.e. 16:32, 32:64, 24:48) as well as 3:1 (48:16), 4:1 (64:16),
8:3 (64:24). The Persian oud theorists of that time were numerologist in their beliefs!
There is no mention of string diameter in the KAT but the 5 courses of the KAT oud - like the 4 course oud of the Brethren - were tuned a fourth apart
so, consequentially, in order to achieve the required string diameters with the silk thread count per string given and assuming equal thread diameter
and equal string tension, the fourth and fifth courses must have been of a construction other than plain twisted. A plain braided string construction
(i.e. without a metal core) on the other hand would meet this requirement.
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
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Good images are an important part of forum communication where a picture may go a long way towards clarifying a particular subject matter where many
words might fail - especially in a forum where English may not be the first language of many members.
So - as a small diversion and for general information - here is a latest attempt to improve on the previously posted close up images of the 12#
braided string test sample using my new relatively low cost 'point and shoot' Canon PowerShot Elf 135 digital camera. Not as easy to use to obtain
reasonable 'super macro' (extreme close-up) images as my now broken PowerShot A470 but perhaps good enough in detail for posting on the forum.
The attached two images show first the 100%, hand held, (compressed to 480x680 format) macro image of the 12# braided string simply held in my fingers
and then the cropped image to show greater 'super macro' detail. The images - taken under incandescent lighting - have not otherwise been 'improved'
by photo editing. So not bad at all for a low end point and shoot camera and hand held macro image.
The camera also performs well enough in copying 35 mm microfilm images of text (when set to grey scale recording) to produce clear full page 8.5 X11
prints.
[file]33341[/file]
[file]33343[/file]
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jdowning
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An advantage of using the ready made braided lead cored fishing line for these trials is that the lead core may be easily removed from the braided
sleeve and replaced with an alternative core material to modify the vibrating string characteristics.
Alternative core materials to be experimented with are flexible stranded copper wire, and worn wound strings. Pure silver is a possibility but has no
advantage over lead as the metal densities are nearly the same. Gold is now out of the question as since 1973 - once on a gold standard fixed price of
$35 an ounce since 1945 - its crazy price (currently $1,200 or more an ounce) is now determined by free market speculation.
The 63# line as previously reported only has a lead core of 0.45 mm diameter and outside diameter 0f 0.94 mm. However, the lead core diameter may be
increased by removing a double length of core from the line and twisting it like a rope to make a flexible two strand core measuring 0.78 mm diameter.
This twisted core may then be re inserted into the braided sleeve to produce a string of about 1.2 mm diameter that should have a good bass string
performance.
A string of this construction will be made next for testing.
The attached image shows the two strand twisted lead core inserted into the braided sleeve - with room to spare.
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jdowning
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For information - small diameter pure lead wire - suitable for the cores of braided string - is readily available from stores catering to fly
fishermen. The wire is used to weight fly fishing hooks and is sold in small spools of 13 ft length (4 metres) or 1 pound in weight (0.45 Kg). The
length of wire per 1 pound spool will, of course , depend upon wire diameter - cost ranging from about $18 to $35. Cost per small spool is about $3
regardless of wire diameter.
Wire diameters available are 0.25 mm, 0.38 mm, 0.50 mm, 0.64 mm, 0.76 mm and 0.89 mm.
These are the same wire diameters used to manufacture braided lead core fishing lines that range in cost from about $10 to $30 for 100 yards (91
metres) so is likely the cheapest source of lead wire (and comes with ready made braided sleeve).
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jdowning
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To make a two strand twisted lead core line for testing, two 1 metre lengths of the 63# braided line were prepared by first removing the cores as
previously described. The lead cores measure 0.45 mm in diameter. It can be seen from the attached image that the core is not smooth but has been
indented by the braided sleeve during manufacture.
The two cores were then twisted together on my string making rig applying 403 turns until the twist became uneven (more compact) at the driven end of
the rig indicating the the twisted core was about to break. At this point the length of the twisted core had reduced in length by 3 cm and increased
in outside diameter to about 0.8 cm. The attached image shows the compact twist for a short distance at the driven end compared to the more open,
uniform twist along the rest of the core. The roughness of the lead strands no doubt prevented a more desirable compact twist forming along the
twisted core.
The two strand twisted core was then fed into the braided sleeve little by little as previously described - easily done but rather tedious taking
about 20 minutes or so to complete. A perfect task for members of the Dull Men's Club!
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=15251
The braided sleeve expanded to accommodate the larger diameter twisted core so reduced in length to 89 cm. So starting with the two unmodified 1 metre
lengths of 63# braided string the final working length of the new completed twisted core string is 89 cm.
The attached image shows the unvarnished braided string with two strand core inserted and compared with the original single strand core 63# braided
line. Note the minute surface hairs of filaments broken during the abrasive process of inserting the twisted core into the braided sleeve.
A first coat of 'TruOil' varnish has been applied. As might be expected the string absorbed a fair amount of varnish as it soaked through the braided
sleeve to fill the gaps in the twisted core.
Next to test the string on the test rig once application of the varnish coats is complete and dried. The string outside diameter will be measured at
that stage.
[file]33399[/file] [file]33395[/file] [file]33397[/file]
[file]33401[/file]
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
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The diameter of the varnished 63# braided string with the 2 strand twisted lead core is 1.17 mm under tension.
The test results are as follows for the approximate 2 Kg to 3 Kg working range, A440 standard pitch:
D 73Hz - 3.2 Kg sustain 10 seconds.
C# 69Hz - 2.9 Kg.
C 65Hz - 2.5 Kg.
B' 62Hz - 2.2 Kg.
A'# 58Hz - 2.0 Kg sustain 6 seconds.
The equivalent linear density for this composite string is about 3750 Kg/m³ - not a great increase compared to the 63# string with only a single
strand core of 0.45 mm diameter (3295 Kg/m³). This is because of the open winding of the 2 strand core - the gaps in the core being filled with
varnish. A 3 or 4 strand twisted core would be more compact and have a lower frequency range.
The length of empty braided 63# sleeve left over from this trial is to be varnished and tested next - to gain some appreciation of the performance of
a plain braided string (without metal core).
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jdowning
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The 63# braided sleeve without core has been prepared for testing by tensioning with a 1.4 Kg load and then saturated with two coats of TruOil
varnish.
The diameter of the completed string is 0.88 mm under tension.
Testing in the approximate 2.0 to 3.0 Kg tension range gave the following results.
Standard pitch A440.
g 196 Hz - 3.5 Kg tension - sustain about 6 seconds
f# 185 Hz - 3.1 Kg
f 175 Hz - 2.8 Kg
e 165 Hz - 2.5 Kg
d# 156 Hz - 2.2 Kg
d 147 Hz - 2.0 Kg tension - sustain about 5 seconds
The string density works out to about 1010 Kg/m³ so is a bit lower in density than mono-filament nylon but the string is less stiff and more elastic
so should perform better than plain nylon.
This string will next be tested mounted on my 60 cm string length lute tuned in F (A440 standard) on the 4th Course (d#) so will be tuned an octave
above the 27# braided lead core 7th course that is still performing well under test - so should be an interesting comparison.
The attached 'macro' image of the string shows it to be nicely 'smooth and well twisted' - albeit with some interesting multi-colour dye particle
inclusions.
[file]33551[/file]
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rootsguitar
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Interesting as always...to clarify, the tension described is from the pegbox to the bridge?
Scordatura driven by circumstance is always in the back of my mind...curious if the overall instrument bracing for a lute/oud seems suited to the last
few stringings you have documented. Also does the grouping have a collective sum?
--regards
T.Robb
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jdowning
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More precisely the tension described in the tests is from the front edge of the nut to front edge of the bridge i.e. the vibrating string length
I do not understand what you mean when you wonder if the last few stringings I have documented are suited to the overall bracing for a lute/oud or if
the groupings have a collective sum?
The string test results simply provide pitch/tension data for each string of a specific construction, diameter and vibrating string length. For a lute
medium to bass string (the kind of string currently being investigated) - the working tension historically would be in the approximate range of 2 to 3
Kg dictated by the breaking tension of the treble gut or silk strings and the perception of the feel under the fingers of 'equal' string tension
(tension usually reducing from treble to bass rather than strictly equal throughout).
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rootsguitar
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When I adapted found materials for instrument strings they usually could not be broken by turning the tuning pegs ( copolymer mostly).
The limiting factor then becomes the ability for the pegbox/tuner to hold the tension…the peg might hold momentarily, only to slip & spool off
rapidly.
Of course if the string material would break under tension this would not happen.
I wonder if there is a way to quantify what tension a wood on wood peg can hold?
I had been warned in the past that even if a grouped stringing could be successfully set up, over time the strain may deform the instrument if the
collective tension was outside of what the luthier intended.
I began to rationalize that if, for example, a 15-string lute was strung with only 6 or 7 strings could it handle a higher tension since the sum of
the missing strings would not be applied against the bracing?
Also The kite strings I tried broke easily as I tested them. They would be useful for lute strings only to someone far from supplies & with a
strong desire to explore their instrument.
It was a worthy project to varnish them though, a direct influence of this thread. I coated them & hung them from rafters with rebar tied on the
ends.
The rebar occasionally knocked together as I worked, making a chime-like sound.
At first glance I thought your figures were listed as a full stringing set up, that might explain my post as well…
g
f#
f
e
d#
d
________
D
C
C
B
A'#
_________
B
A#
A
G#
G
The material your working with seems to show good potential for instrument strings...
(attached images of pegbox views, fretted & fretless)
[file]33603[/file]
[file]33605[/file]
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jdowning
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A good analysis of the historical aspects of lute strings is 'The Lute in its Historical Reality' by Mimmo Peruffo (Aquila Strings) here:
http://ricerche.aquilacorde.com/wp-content/uploads/liuto-en.pdf
The string technology applies equally well to ouds.
The plain braided fourth course string has been mounted on my 7 course, 60 cm string length lute for testing. It has slightly less sustain and fewer
higher partial tones than the equivalent wound Pyramid string that it has replaced but is otherwise quite acceptable in my opinion. When stopped in
higher fret positions it tends to sound slightly sharper in pitch than the equivalent wound string - not unexpected however - easily corrected by
adjusting fret positions and diameters.
For information the attached audio clip is the sound of the test 4th course string followed by the braided lead core 7th course (unison pair) sounding
an octave lower. The braided 7th course strings have been in operation for several weeks now with no perceptible wear and I rather like the full bass
sound.
Also attached is a short audio clip to demonstrate how the braided test strings blend with the modern Pyramid lute strings - 'Pergamasco' by G.L.
Fuhrmann from his lute book 'Testudo Gallo-Germanica' , Nuremberg, 1615.
(Pergamasco or Bergamasca - a rustic dance from Bergamo in Italy - was a popular setting for 16th/17th C lute composers)
[file]33607[/file]
[file]33608[/file]
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rootsguitar
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Hey I look fwd to reading that soon...the clips sound good too. I get the 2-3kg range now, missed it earlier. Good stuff, thx.
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jdowning
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The 63# braided twisted two strand lead core was previously reported. Two strands gave quite an open core so the viability of a four strand core has
been tried.
Two 63# lengths of line were stripped of their single cores and the cores doubled over to make four strands. The four strand bundle was then twisted
under light tension to form a twisted core measuring 1.10 mm in diameter - the individual strands being 0.45 mm diameter.
The twisted core was then fed into the 63# braided sleeve to form a string measuring 1.4 mm diameter. However, it was not possible to insert the core
into the sleeve for more than a couple of centimetres so the expansion limit of the sleeve has been exceeded at this core diameter. The core diameter
limit for the 63# sleeve may be between 0.9 mm to 1.0 mm. A four strand core of this diameter might be made from 0.4 mm diameter core stripped from
12# line.
The attached images show the twisted four strand core, the 63# sleeve without a core and the 63# filled to the limit with the four strand core - all
unvarnished.
(I now once again have familiar good macro imaging facilities having purchased a broken Canon PowerShot A470 camera on Ebay and used the parts to
restore functionality to my broken A470).
[file]33639[/file] [file]33641[/file] [file]33637[/file]
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jdowning
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For completeness the Sufix 12# lead core line previously reported on 10-27-2014 has been mounted for testing on my lute together with an equivalent
Pyramid wound string at the fifth course. Pitch A# (117 Hz), tension 2.76 Kg, string length 60 cm, string diameter 0.52 mm.
The sound is bright and 'brassy' - similar to a new Pyramid wound string - with good sustain. In tune when fretted up to the 8th fret.
The attached audio clip is the 12# string played open followed by the wound string for comparison.
As the lute now needs to be completely re-strung and re- fretted the 63# braided lead core string previously reported will be the last string to be
tested on the lute at the 6 course position tuned to F 87 Hz - again compared to an equivalent Pyramid wound string.
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jdowning
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For a final test, before restringing and refretting the lute, four of the braided lead core strings (previously described and tested on the string
test rig) have been mounted as follows:
7th course - 63# braid with 2 strand twisted core, diameter 1.17 mm, pitch A'# 58Hz.
7th course -27# braid 0.53 mm lead core, diameter 0.75 mm, pitch D# 78 Hz.
6th Course - 63# braid 0.45 mm lead core, diameter 0.94 mm, pitch F 87 Hz.
5th course - 12# braid 0.40 lead core, diameter 0.55 mm, pitch A# 117 Hz.
String length 60 cm.
For information, the attached audio clip is the sound of the strings played open and in sequence from 7th to 5th course. The brightness of sound for
each string depends upon the ratio of the core linear density to nylon braid linear density (and string tension, diameter and length being constant)
so may be modified by adjusting these two variables as necessary.
Note that the 27# braided strings, as a unison pair for the 7th course, have been in service daily now for three months and show no signs of wear.
Lute strings of the 16th and early 17th C were sold in long lengths bound up in knots as shown in the attached engraving of the period. By way of
comparison and demonstration, a length of the 27# braided lead core string has been made up in the same fashion.
[file]33770[/file]
[file]33772[/file] [file]33773[/file] [file]33775[/file]
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jdowning
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Here is another engraving of a 'knot' of strings taken from Hans Gerle's tutor for lute and viol - 'Musica Teutsch', 1532.
Bound up like a bundle of modern boot or shoe laces - further support for braided construction?
[file]33830[/file]
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jdowning
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I have picked up another 100 yard spool of lead cored braided nylon line - this time a 45# line by 'Mason' - for about 1/4 normal retail price as it
is old stock.
The line measures about 0.88 mm outside diameter with a lead core measuring 0.5 mm so performance will be similar to the Tel-a-Depth 27# tested
earlier.
A metre of line was loaded with 3.5 Kg and then varnished with three coats of TruOil wiped on with a cloth (in retrospect two coats should be
sufficient). After varnishing and under load the line measured 0.78 mm outside diameter.
The test results are as follows for a string length of 60 cm:
F# 83 Hz - tension 3.33 Kg - sustain 12 seconds
F 87 Hz - tension 2.96 Kg
E 82 Hz - tension 2.65 Kg
D# 78 Hz - tension 2.32 Kg
D 73 Hz - tension 2.10 Kg
C# 69 Hz - tension 1.82 Kg
The average linear density for the composite string is 5507 Kg/m³.
This string should work for either the 6th or 7th course of my lute. I will test it to see how it performs (intonation) when stopped up to the 8th
fret. Cost about 20 cents (shipping and handling from the USA in this case cost more than the spool of line otherwise cost would be about 10
cents!)
There are many brands and sizes of lead cored line on the market but it is not know how much variation there might be between the various makes. These
four samples tested suggest that the core diameters used may be fairly limited regardless of breaking load - say 0.4 mm and 0.5 mm? Breaking loads for
this type of line are 12#, 15#, 18#, 27#, 36#, 45# and 63# most far more than the usual breaking load of a bass string in the 2 Kg to 3 Kg range.
However - as has been demonstrated - the cores may be easily stripped from the braided sleeves and replaced with cores of another diameter. The
replacement lead cores may be solid wire or cores made by twisting together 2, 3 or 4 solid lead wires of any chosen diameter.
If required solid lead wire may be purchased in spools in standard nominal diameters of 0.38mm, 0.51mm, 0.64mm, 0.76mm and 0.89 mm.
An alternative core material might be annealed copper wire filament twisted to form a cylindrical core. Fine copper wire is readily available at low
cost stripped from flexible domestic electrical power cords
Pure gold solid wire would be the best core material but the cost these days is prohibitive.
[file]34199[/file] [file]34201[/file]
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jdowning
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One interesting and common style of braid is the so called 'Maypole' braid because it replicates the movement of one of the maypole dances where two
circles of dancers moving around a maypole each in opposite direction - the dancers holding a ribbon attached to the top of the pole - weave in and
out of each other. This action forms a distinctive braid or plait around the pole as the dance proceeds.
The action is clearly seen here in an antique shoe lace braiding machine (the braid in this case is without a core).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Yjpu64Y_oc
The maypole tradition in Europe (held either on May 1st or Mid Summer) is of ancient but obscure origin. It is not clear if the popular maypole dance
routines of today also date to ancient times. If they do, however, perhaps this particular version may have been the inspiration for cored braided
strings? A tempting speculation!
Lots of examples of maypole dancing have been posted on YouTube - but mostly pretty chaotic in their execution!
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jdowning
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Having recently purchased a low cost 'off lease' desktop PC loaded with Windows7 Pro 64bit operating system I found that I could not access Arto
Wikla's handy 'on line' string calculator as it was blocked from loading due to the low security level of the Javascript required for its operation. I
have found the software very useful as a tool for interpreting data collected from my string test rig results and although I am still able to access
Wikla's software via a Linux operating system on another computer I looked around for an alternative program that might do the job.
Luthier Oliver Wadsworth has provided just that with his StringCalc32 - a stand alone program offered as a free download here:
http://www.wadsworth-lutes.co.uk/software.htm
In Windows7 Pro 64bit the software installed without need to make special arrangements for operating in 'Windows 98 compatible mode'.
I have tested the software in 'Single String View' and it provides all of the facilities provided by Arto Wikla's program and more. Nice easy to use
interface. Recommended.
Note that the 'Tone' button that is supposed to give the sound of the selected frequency does not work in any of the Windows operating systems.
[file]34920[/file]
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Jody Stecher
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Thanks very much for this! Note that the tone generator will crash a computer using XP home. I have written to ask if the calculator will work on
Mac computers. I will report back when I've received a a reply.
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Jody Stecher
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Update, 20 seconds later. My email to Oliver at the address given on the website bounced back as User Unknown.
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jdowning
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I sent an email to Oliver earlier today to confirm that his software works on Windows 7 Pro 64 bit but, so far, have not received a response - but no
bounce either.
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jdowning
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Jody - I forgot to mention that I have been in contact with Oliver a couple of times by email about the functionality of his program StringCalc32 so
his email address on his website is OK.
Note that I have now also tested the program on Linux Ubuntu 14 32 bit using the Wine application that allows some software designed for Windows to
run on Linux. I can confirm that it runs as designed (except for the tone generator facility that is non functional).
Oddly I have not been able to get StringCalc32 to work properly in either Windows XP Home or XP pro.
I have also just tested Paul Beier's string and fret calculator application version 2. This is shareware and can be downloaded for free testing (30
tests) before registering (cost 10 Euros). It covers both monofilament strings and wound strings by the well known makers and includes a tone
generator. It works as designed in Windows 7 pro 64 bit but has limited functionality in Linux 32bit via Wine.
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