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coyootie
Oud Addict
Posts: 32
Registered: 11-22-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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mo pix
what else- finish is French polish done with Everclear, not denatured alcohol ( poison! always best to leave toxic stuff out of your workshop and
instruments!)
I'm selling this oud for $2300 + insured shipping.I'll post a soundfile of my hopeless amateur playing in the next few weeks, I want to play it in
some more. Rahim did one for us and asked that it not be posted until after we play this oud in for a while, when we'll record it again and have an
great way to compare the sound.
[file]12658[/file]
[file]12660[/file]
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Ronny Andersson
Oud Junkie
Posts: 724
Registered: 8-15-2003
Location: Sweden
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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I think you ask a bit too much for your oud. This is your first and you have built something that is an experiment between different types of ouds.
Ouds with floating bridge are very delicate and difficult instrument to build.
I hope it will be a good oud, but you should wait at least six months before you sell something that is new and untried.
Best wishes
Ronny
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Sazi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 786
Registered: 9-17-2007
Location: Behind my oud
Member Is Offline
Mood: مبتهج ; ))
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I agree with Ronny
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coyootie
Oud Addict
Posts: 32
Registered: 11-22-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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I've been building renaissance lutes and vihuelas for years and have no problem standing behind my integrity and craftsmanship. did you perhaps
overlook who had already played it in the previous posts???
if I was an amateur builder the price would be different. I have decades of experience doing this.I have no idea what sort of "experts" are making
these comments so it's difficult for me to make any rational remarks -so I'm not going to waste my time on this. I have made and sold vihuelas to some
very talented players and have never had any complaints about playability or durability.
I can see at quick glance that one of the commentators is a person with limited understanding of ouds. there is nothing inherently "delicate " about
floating bridge ouds vs. glued bridge ouds. if anything floating bridge ouds are built more robustly than glued bridge ouds.there is nothing
particularly difficult about the construction of an Iraqi oud either, again if anything a glued bridge is more complex. and since neither of you have
played, held or heard this oud, common sense and perhaps a sense of ordinary politeness would suggest you withold judgments.I have no idea why I see
so much negative communication on the internet, something about the anonymity leads people to write things they wouldn't say in person.
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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But in this price range you will compete with top oud luthiers like Faruk Turunz or Nazi Ghadban for example.
So time will tell, if the price is too high or not 
| Quote: | | there is nothing inherently "delicate" about floating bridge ouds vs. glued bridge ouds. |
Though I'm not an oud expert, a floating bridge needs a special (curved/convex) soundboard and a different bracing as far as I know. I would expect,
that building such a soundboard is more difficult, isn't it?
| Quote: | | I have no idea why I see so much negative communication on the internet, ... |
I don't think, that Ronny and Sazi wanted to offend you.
PS: I'm curious to hear the soundfile.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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Ronny Andersson
Oud Junkie
Posts: 724
Registered: 8-15-2003
Location: Sweden
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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You have hardly acted professionally on the forum by asking a lot about the Iraqi oud design. Most luthiers that I know make a lot of researches far
from any forum or build replicas of instruments.
Yes you wrote that a professional Iraqi musician liked your oud, and many instruments sounds good but it was the sound I was concerned about?
Munir Bashir liked Fawsy Munshed instruments, although they tend to have problems.
It is obvious that you do not have any experience with this type of ouds when you can draw safe conclusions already that you have succeeded but I hope
you succeed in spite of your reaction.
Quote: Originally posted by coyootie  | I've been building renaissance lutes and vihuelas for years and have no problem standing behind my integrity and craftsmanship. did you perhaps
overlook who had already played it in the previous posts???
if I was an amateur builder the price would be different. I have decades of experience doing this.I have no idea what sort of "experts" are making
these comments so it's difficult for me to make any rational remarks -so I'm not going to waste my time on this. I have made and sold vihuelas to some
very talented players and have never had any complaints about playability or durability.
I can see at quick glance that one of the commentators is a person with limited understanding of ouds. there is nothing inherently "delicate " about
floating bridge ouds vs. glued bridge ouds. if anything floating bridge ouds are built more robustly than glued bridge ouds.there is nothing
particularly difficult about the construction of an Iraqi oud either, again if anything a glued bridge is more complex. and since neither of you have
played, held or heard this oud, common sense and perhaps a sense of ordinary politeness would suggest you withold judgments.I have no idea why I see
so much negative communication on the internet, something about the anonymity leads people to write things they wouldn't say in person.
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Best wishes
Ronny
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Sam
Oud Junkie
Posts: 375
Registered: 3-23-2009
Location: Cairo - Egypt
Member Is Offline
Mood: Selling Ouds
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 heeee 2300$$ even if the floating bridge was made of pure gold it would not
worth such price
any sound files plz?
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FLIPAX
Oud Junkie
Posts: 311
Registered: 10-13-2009
Location: Dubai, U.A.E
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bayyati Shuri.....
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| Quote: Originally posted by Sam | heeee 2300$$ even if the floating bridge was made of pure gold it would not
worth such price
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Nice One Sam!
Everyone is entitled on his own opinion. To tell you honestly I don't Like how it looks floating with a round sound hole not oval and that pickguard
does not amazed me. No offense Just my thoughts.
We all "mean well" here. Think its just a little pricey for a not so famous luthier. Like Fadi Matta, Faruk Turunz, Nazih Ghadban, Maurice Shehata,
and the rest of the other famous one's not metioned.
BTW I Like Your Fingerboard Snake Looks Awesome!
Kindest Regards,
Philip
Every time I Hear The Oud, I fall into a Deep Long Trance of Perpetual Bliss!
"Naseem Al Rooh"
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Fact is, for that price we could buy a concert oud of a famous luthier.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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FLIPAX
Oud Junkie
Posts: 311
Registered: 10-13-2009
Location: Dubai, U.A.E
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bayyati Shuri.....
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Hey Chris!
How r u my friend?
Yeah We could have a good grand concert oud with that price.
Cheers
Flip
Every time I Hear The Oud, I fall into a Deep Long Trance of Perpetual Bliss!
"Naseem Al Rooh"
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Fine, thanks ... I hope you too.
| Quote: | | Yeah We could have a good grand concert oud with that price. |
Maybe not a grand concert, but a concert oud should be in that price range, but that also depends on the country, where the luthier lives ... Turkey
for example usually is more expensive as the middle east.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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FLIPAX
Oud Junkie
Posts: 311
Registered: 10-13-2009
Location: Dubai, U.A.E
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bayyati Shuri.....
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Every time I Hear The Oud, I fall into a Deep Long Trance of Perpetual Bliss!
"Naseem Al Rooh"
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bulerias1981
Oud Junkie
Posts: 763
Registered: 4-26-2009
Location: Beacon, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: John Vergara Luthier Lord of the Strings instrument making and repair
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Dear coyootie,
I guess the people in this forum are a bit sensitive to what appears to them as "over pricing". 10 years ago, a very quality oud would cost $800, to
$1000. Obviously the price has come up considerably from all the well known makers. Your experience making vihuelas or other early/western instruments
should count. But somehow it cannot. I come from a violin making background and a good brand new violin could run you anywhere from $5000 to $10,000.
But this cannot compare to the oud market, which only 10 years ago, saw prices that were a fraction of this. I guess the point is, its hard to make an
oud or two and sell them for what the most established oud makers sell their ouds for. Even if it has a superior sound to theirs. It appears to be a
beautiful oud, and I hope no one here discouraged you in anyway.
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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Dear coyootie
I'd say the market will decide. Though in light of the fact that the market starts here, or at least passes through here like a train, it wouldn't
hurt to make a good impression. Someone's first oud will be especially received with sympathy if the maker shows a little modesty.
I may be a relative novice but I can attest that it takes months of daily playing before a new oud develops it's timbre. I've never noticed it like
this on other instruments. It's never certain how a new oud will turn out. This is one reason why tried and true designs are favored, and why a proven
oudmaker can command a higher price.
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sabbassi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 570
Registered: 4-28-2008
Location: Morocoo
Member Is Offline
Mood: happy
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Nice Oud coyootie.
Like bulerias said , it is hard to sell (high priced) ouds without having build an historical path and reputations in the OUD world.
But who knows, you may find someone interested in your oud for that price.
keep up the good job.
Samir
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Oud Freak
Oud Junkie
Posts: 291
Registered: 11-23-2007
Member Is Offline
Mood: Oud Jerk 
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Cooyootie,
I think that Mr. Andersson was very straightforward and polite with you, with no intention to offend. In your reply to him you overreacted.
Even Mr. Ghadban who is a great and experienced luthier is found somehow expensive. So I think your prices would better be reviewed.
Wish u a gd 3oud production.
OF
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Luttgutt
Oud Junkie
Posts: 578
Registered: 1-10-2009
Location: Norway
Member Is Offline
Mood: Curious
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Hi cooyootie!
I am sure that if you stick in this forum long enough, and I hope you will, you will find out that this is a grate forum with lots of nice people,
that mean well!
And we ALL welcome new members, and would MORE then welcome new makers!
But it is very difficult to disagree with all what the guys has wrote!
Just take a look at Nazih Ghadban ouds. How would YOU rank them compared to yours? (keep in mind that you only show us a picture, no sound, no video).
And be your own judge.
I need to say here that Mr. Ghadban ouds can be purchased for less then 2000$.
I also need to mention that Sabbassi (one of the members here) is selling WANDERFULL ouds for around 600 euros!
Compare your oud to his! And judge for yourself (we cannot, because we cannot listen to your oud).
P.s. I don't like the way SOME makres are pushing oud prices so high up, and get good help of some rich players.
And guys,
I find it outrages that a second hand Turunz oud gets sold for 4500$ on this forum. And that NO ONE on this forum complains about THAT!
While we JUMP on this oud maker like lions!
Why this "inconsistency"!? I am just wandering 
The wood might be dead, but the oud is alive.
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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Well then maybe you will understand why I have argued that it's important to support the "casual players' ouds" as well as those built truly for
stage/screen professionals, and not fall into a snobbish frame of mind where the use of the most exotic woods and the most perfect finish is more
important than whether it plays and sounds good.
I think it's a mistake to reset the pricing and the cosmetic standards for this traditional instrument and turn it into a playground for the wealthy.
Is is important to preserve the price level where ouds were sold as decent learner or family instruments, that maybe need a little touch-up to meet my
(demanding) standards, like maybe a little fine sanding, some added detailing, even a new set of pegs, but are soundly built the old fashioned way
with simple tools and can be had for under $300.
Let's not confuse the family type oud with decoration ouds sold in the market square. People who are just starting out likely don't need a $1000 oud.
It will be a sad day when that's what it takes to buy a basic oud to play And as to the people who are regularly dealing in $1200-2500 ouds, I'm
sorry, but I think most of you are confusing luxury with quality. It's not that there are no ouds worth $2500, it's just that I hope it is not yet a
routine price-point.
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sabbassi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 570
Registered: 4-28-2008
Location: Morocoo
Member Is Offline
Mood: happy
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but than again, the question remain?, how to keep the prices low when the wood and other material used have raised in price. for instance, Indian
Rosewood in Holland was 6000 euro a m3 and now 9000 euro. and so is Ebony.
this is an example only, if we speak about master grade sound board that are about 90 euro.
So what makes an OUD expensive. I guess not only the sound of course, but all the material used in it and who is making it.
It would be unfair if we have a well constructed OUD that meet all requirements made of beautiful wood etc..but not made by a well know luthier and
expect 500 $ for it.
An Oud is not less worth it than a Brazilian Rosewood guitar that cost about 8000 $.
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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... depending on the luthier, yes ... shocking, but true.
Yes, some woods are extremely expensive ... and they even are too cheap, if we keep the rainforest problem in mind ... so some woods are, what Tony
(FernandRaynaud) called luxury. And the demand for such woods is one of the reasons for the "lungs of earth" getting smaller day by day.
If we have a look at this discussion, it might be a wise decision of new or less known luthiers to choose high quality, but not the most expensive
woods, to keep selling prices as low as possible. I might also be worth a thought, to use "luxury" woods only on demand ... when a customer asks about
it.
Just a thought. What do you think?
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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In many ways the problem will take care of itself if people here
1- don't mock the basic oud out of existence and
2- develop and support the know-how for doing little improvements to turn a basic weekday oud into a Sunday oud for the "middle class".
Clearly luthiers with Western mortgages, tools, materials and expectations are working at a different price point. Let them - their customers are in
the same league. "Good people, do make the most beautiful and most refined ouds the world has ever seen, sell them fairly to spread joy, and God be
with you."
But don't you people DARE browbeat a novice into spending $1000 on an oud because "anything less is junk"! You want us to believe that the working
people of Egypt and Syria have been developing their music and culture for centuries on toy instruments? I find such a stance distasteful and elitist.
It puts real pressure on innocent people who are asking for your advice and who might suffer as a result, and most of all it's incorrect.
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Manil
Oud Maniac
Posts: 77
Registered: 3-19-2010
Member Is Offline
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Things have to be in context.
The Oud proposed here looks well made, the asking price in my opinion is high, not because I doubt about coyootie abilities to make nice ouds, simply
because it's his first Oud. I just posted two Altayyar Ouds for 3000$, and if I have that kind of money I personalty prefer to spend a 700$ more to
get Altayyar Ouds, he is well known, his Ouds are unique, what else can I say about him?
If someone tries this oud and like it, he will be the best evaluator of coyootie work, and the reputation will start from there, but at this price
range only a few professionals will take a look at this oud and as I said before spend a few $ and you'll get a concert oud from a well known
maker.
that's my opinion, may be i am wrong because this oud deserves every dollar asked, but sometime you have to make a good evaluation of the context
before asking for a price.
| Quote: | | But don't you people DARE browbeat a novice into spending $1000 on an oud because "anything less is junk"! You want us to believe that the working
people of Egypt and Syria have been developing their music and culture for centuries on toy instruments? I find such a stance distasteful and elitist.
It puts real pressure on innocent people who are asking for your advice and who might suffer as a result, and most of all it's wrong.
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This is so true, I was in that position and I started with a 200$ oud to get started, when I was realy into oud I spent the right price for MY oud,
and I don't regret my way of doing it, and I give the same advice to all beginners, try the Oud, fell in love with it and then spend the extra money
to get a nice one.
Cheers
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Luttgutt
Oud Junkie
Posts: 578
Registered: 1-10-2009
Location: Norway
Member Is Offline
Mood: Curious
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Sorry I have been away from this discussion. Had a litle accident...
Well, yes, I understand.
And I said many times on this forum that I don't like the way SOME Luthier are pushing the prices up in a nonreasonable way.
But you and I disagree on "what" is expensive!
You insist on 300$
While I am willing to pay around 1000$ for good ouds.
And I already have 6 such good ouds for around that price.
What you might not be aware of (being new to oud), is that people like me that have been playing oud for more then 30 years (been playing sice I was
8), have had enough of
bad pegs
bad finger boards
bad wood
bent ouds (high, and uneven action)
not well balanced ouds (even on the GOOD ouds, there was always one "bad" string...)
etc..
And I/we are very happy to see that oud makers has taken a serious step forword in Oud making!
Not many years ago it was a DREEM for me to own (even see) an excellent oud. Now I have 6 of them!!!
So no, I don't want to go back to the half OK- half bad ouds that I used to pay around 100$ for. (it is good that it is still an option. But it is
EXCELLENT that I have better options).
And I want to incourige those GOOD makers that are selling at what I see as reasenable price.
But I am NOT willing to pay the "snobbish" sprices when I can get ecxellents ouds for way under 2000$.
Hope I was cleer in my formulation!
P.s. Sabbassi, I definatly did not mean you when I talked before about maker pusing the prices up!
On the contrary, I think that you are one of those makers that we should incourage!
The wood might be dead, but the oud is alive.
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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There are different price points that we need to encourage. We don't want the prime ouds to disappear, and we don't want the "casual player" ouds to
disappear either. And when people come here as beginners, or pros, we want them to have choices and neither be pushed into something they can't
afford, nor into something they won't be happy with. And this is the place to learn.
To each what we need. My position is simple. I'm not rich enough to demand of the world that my pegs never jam. But I'm perfectly happy to make small
repairs! I am not rich enough to expect that every string be perfect. But I'm learning enough to fix it.
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Sam
Oud Junkie
Posts: 375
Registered: 3-23-2009
Location: Cairo - Egypt
Member Is Offline
Mood: Selling Ouds
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oud makers got the right to raise up their prices but they shouldn't complain about the tone wood prices , you could get indian rose wood the highest
grade for 120$ including shipping , and master grade german spruce for 100$ includin international shipping or cedar bookmatched highest grade for 60$
and exotic rare walnut for 125$
60+125= 185 $
100+120=220 $
oud makers would ask more than 1500$ for an oud with such materials! )
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