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diane
Oud Addict
Posts: 41
Registered: 3-22-2010
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Hm. Thank you Chris. Yes, that's right up my street too. Much appreciated. I will search the further links later. :-)
In Hosam's defence the clips outside of the studio are still amazing. btw he suggested possibly getting a Turkish beginner's oud..though i know not
why yet, but have asked just now.
It's late I should sleep, but thank you for the link. It's always a good thing to find new avenues one wants to be exploring :-) Sleep well.
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Mood: m'Oudy
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You can e.g. extend the bass on the oud an octave, you can even do it live with a little stomp box. Of course I love Mehdi Haddib.
It's impossible to be sure how a given sound was obtained. It's hard to say how expensive the oud was, it's not so important is it? That sound may or
may not be pleasing to everyone, certain choices were made, I rather think the overall effect is just fine. Traditionalists prefer a specific slice
of the available sonic options, that's good too. We need both, I think.
You can do so much with our current tools, it's nothing to be unhappy about. It's a reason to rejoice ! It is a great renewal and we can hope a great
golden age of music that is slowly developing. People have access to music of all regions and all time periods at the touch of the mouse. That is
very powerful. We are learning so much. The oud is being discovered by more people all over the planet than ever before, and that is wonderful. Yes
the oud is a very special instrument, maybe a "sacred instrument" we can all agree on that, not just a "very nice" instrument. So it happens that
people discover some very deep things along with superficial things.
As to the sounds on that recording, it doesn't matter how it's done, it's done using everyday studio methods and tools, and if you want, it can be
done by YOU.
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Mood: m'Oudy
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Diane, you might find a Turkish oud more comfortable, a full Arabic oud is quite big, maybe very big ;-) So many people tune Turkish ouds to Arabic
mode. Luttgutt I think has sold all his Arabic ouds because they are just too big for him after orthopedic problems.
But one caveat. One case I know of first hand was a player who only played/liked Arabian style, so he tuned his very nice Turkish oud down to Arabian,
and rubbed it on camels and sang "Cheri je t'aime ... ya mustapha" to it. But I can testify that the timbre still retained unmistakably something of
the Turkish instrument in this instance, nothing bad, but it didn't sound quite 100% Arabian, and he couldn't wait to sell it. I don't know if that's
always true ???? Everybody should have ONE smaller/Turkish style oud, so why not make it your first one? What do you think, Luttgutt?
Diane, maybe take a break? Abandon the milk bottles and the kids, dress like Stevie Nicks, take the train to Instambul, go to Deniz Music, charm Ali
Nasadir the owner and just pick out an oud that feels perfect to you.
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Luttgutt
Oud Junkie
Posts: 578
Registered: 1-10-2009
Location: Norway
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Mood: Curious
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Well, not long before I was born, oud was the females instrument (my mam, ante, grandma, her ante... all played oud). The arabic counterpart of
trubadure was "Awalem" (in the FEMAL grammatic form). It WAS females that played oud!
My daughter is 12, and is playing a sukar 58,5cm!!
I don't know if there is any difference between turkish and arabic other then the size. If they differ on the bracing or not!
But yes, I have sold ALMOST all my "performence" arabic ouds (except for my "baby" model1 And of course I still have the Nahats, my Ahmad Naji Almasri oud (my late teacher) And two more from the 18 sentury that I don't know who
the maker is).
And I now have 5 ouds with 58,5cm, all made by Sukar (does that make them "turkish" ouds?).
ONE of those 58,5cm ouds (custom made of course) has an arabic timber and deep base that SURPASIS most proffetional arabic size ouds I have tried or
heard.
And the oud I just finishe working on, has a very deep base even though I cannot say it sound "arabic". But maybe more like Trio Joubra sound.
So I don't think size alone is the issue 
Most existing Nahat ouds have what was called "female cut oud".
So by all means, I say go for the turkish size!
The wood might be dead, but the oud is alive.
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
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Mood: No Mood
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Some people say, it touches the soul ... maybe that's it.
| Quote: | | ..., it's done using everyday studio methods and tools, and if you want, it can be done by YOU. |
Yes, that's the point ... you just need a decent microphone or pickup and a (cheap) good software like Reaper and you're ready to go. Ok, a bit of learning is needed too 
No, there are many factors, that infuence the sound.
My oud for example also only has a string length of 58,5 cm, but because of the rosewood boul it has a very deep warm bass. I don't think a downtuned
Turkish oud can sound like this.
But sound characteristics and oud designs is a very complex topic, about which we could discuss over several pages
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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diane
Oud Addict
Posts: 41
Registered: 3-22-2010
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Thank you Luttgart. My computer is SLOW to load this clips, but what I've been able to hear of it so far it is beautiful. I managed to get a section
of it further with violin also. I hadn't heard this combination before. Thank you very much. :-)
As for the Turkish or Arabic ouds...I guess I will have to try them and see. Hosam said the suggestion was just because of my location and prices to
obtain a reasonable instrument. He apologised that his knwoledge is only in the Middle East, knows of good Syrian makers for very good prices, but
that I would need to travel to Syria. Gave me some links of others who may know more.
Hm. I will need to try these instruments I think!! :-)
As for milk bottles...well we're vegan, and my little ones who are bigger now never knew bottles of anything thankfully. ;-) But yes, I am being
plagued here I should be taking a break, round end July beginning of August. My little ones need one to one care 24/7, so...that's probably an
immensely wise decision...did I say decision, I meant advice! :-) Thought maybe I'd learn some Arabic, which I only have a few phrases of but have
always loved, and had always meant to visit Palestine, but other things always came up. And then there was the oud. Swayed me from the idea of going
ot the Gaeltacht and studying Irish (which as a Welsh speaker recently being unhappy meeting Irish speakers and making them speak English to me in
their own country - so for practical reasons really.. As my closest 'foreign' country heading west as which I can see on a clear day...) But then, my
love of the Arabic language was greater and longer established and I came across this site...etc.
Hm. We'll see. Sorry you probably didn't need to know all the above! :-)
Never mind.
Thankfully this site has reopened for a spell and I now have copied down Kelly's details, so Manchester is back on :-)
Warm wishes to all, Diane
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DaveH
Oud Junkie
Posts: 526
Registered: 12-23-2005
Location: Birmingham, UK
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Mood: No Mood
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Hi Diane
Welcome to the UK oud scene! I sent you a U2U.
I haven't read all the thread above so I hope this is still relevant, but I would definitely add my voice to anyone recommending you get a sukar. It's
the best tone to price ratio by far and I really don't think it's a good idea for someone who's starting out but is a decent musician to go for
anything cheaper. I don't think you need to worry too much at the beginning about the difference in regional styles other than to steer clear of iraqi
and turkish as these are quite specific and your preference is clearly for the syria/lebanon/palestine and (possibly) egyptian styles.
Good luck and I'll look forward to hearing what you end up with at a future get together in the UK.
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Mood: m'Oudy
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If you have time (to learn) and money, you have more options. But the safest by far is a Sukar, and they sound great and "Arabiac".
Palmyrami on e-bay gets Sukars in batches direct from Syria. Because the Model 1 is the base model they offer it at $499 and will actually part with
it for under $400, down to $300. In the past this has included a fibergalss hard case. This is such a good deal it would be worth shipping to Europe.
They have apparently sold the last batch, and we don't know when they will have more. Nor do we know what they will be selling at when they get more.
Keep an eye on EBay.com (US). The Sukars that Arabinstruments.com sells are the more expensive models. Their Gawharet El Fans are known to be not as
good as Sukars, but nobody here has dared buy one.
"See you after" Easter?
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diane
Oud Addict
Posts: 41
Registered: 3-22-2010
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Thank you Dave :-)
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diane
Oud Addict
Posts: 41
Registered: 3-22-2010
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Thank you Tony. Seems Sukars are coming in with a lot of backing here. I have learnt a great deal since my arrival on the site.
btw the ref to speaking English to Irish speakers in Ireland was only in that spaces for Irish speakers to speak Irish under pressure more so than in
Wales even. Sorry my want not to be misunderstood makes me longwinded! :-)
And yes, the time I can devote to learning the oud will be sporadic due to life here, not as I would like to give to the instrument, but I hope still
worthwhile. My violin forgives me for the nature of our relationship :-)
Warm wishes, Diane
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
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Mood: No Mood
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Once you have your own oud, you'll want to play at least half an hour a day and I think even a mother should be able to arrange that?
And because you already are a musician, you'll be astonished, that even only half an hour a day will enable you to a good progress in learning.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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Danielo
Oud Junkie
Posts: 365
Registered: 7-17-2008
Location: Paris
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Mood: No Mood
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Hello Diane,
From what I read of your posts your are not just willing to give the oud a try, you seem to start a long love relationship with the oud (this is
usually what happens with this magical instrument - one day you hear it and you KNOW you will play it forever ).
I don't think then you should consider that as a beginner you should start with a 'cheap' instrument - especially because you have already a musical
background. I think that even with a very modest training you can appreciate having a very good instrument. First the playability is better on a
high-end oud (fingerboard of hard ebony, easily tunable pegs, low action,...) and second as soon as you master the basic plucking technique (with a
good teacher it should not take a very long time) you will enjoy the beautiful timbre of the instrument. After all you don't need to be able to play
in 16th notes over all the fingerboard to enjoy the sound
Of course there's the question of what you can afford.. If you can invest around 2000$, Nazih Ghadban, a very reputable luthier from Lebanon, has two
women's size ouds
for sale now, see here. He's a very kind and helpfull person and he can arrange a safe shipping to your door (see ouds 1178 and 1135).
As for cheaper options, there's currently a Sukar for sale in Paris, see here, for around 220 pounds (probably negotiable as it's for sale for several months). However a standard size Sukar may be too big for you?
Still in France, there's a Fadi Matta for sale for 800 euros, He's also a renowned luthier from lebanon and this particular oud has a rather short string length (58.5mm),
which may be good for you. However the bowl is a little big..
Dan
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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... which is a big advantage if someone loves that deeeep bass notes like Diane and myself too
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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diane
Oud Addict
Posts: 41
Registered: 3-22-2010
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Thank you Dan, and Chris and all.. I think my first step is to meet up with some oud players and their ouds and take it from there. May take a little
while as a little hectic here at the mo. Thank you all for your advice and tips and insights.
Kindest regards, Diane
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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Diane, i called the shop in Paris with the dusty Sukar, and they are closed until Tuesday. If I wuz you, I would offer 200 euros with shipping
included and if it flies it would be A SIGN! plus you'd have yourself a heck of a deal, a Sukar does not disappoint, and start playing when the kids
are asleep instead of thinking about when you might take the train or not.
"Life is short - get an oud"
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diane
Oud Addict
Posts: 41
Registered: 3-22-2010
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Oo.. ...You were in Paris? Okay,... Hm. Yes, we co-sleep as they need night time care, but I reckon they could cope with even a beginner's oud
playing!!! As long as they actually sleep and don't just want to play themselves!! Maybe just outside the door might be wiser!! :-) Hm....I should
find the details.... .....(brain slowly whirring..)
Thank you Tony. When were you in Paris? Just recently? Did you see this oud, if so?
...Hm....
True, life IS short. :-)
Warmest thanks, Di
:-)
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diane
Oud Addict
Posts: 41
Registered: 3-22-2010
Member Is Offline
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Tony sending you a U2U
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bibo10
Oud Junkie
Posts: 300
Registered: 11-10-2008
Location: New Jersey, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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hey,
I highly recommend not starting with a cheap oud, it could be very discouraging and frustrating.
I wouldn't think too much about it, go straight to Michael Moussa, he is the nicest person u ll ever meet. email him at
♫
mgmmoussa@yahoo.com or call him on the phone, he has a couple of ouds available and I am sure he can help you, the price range varies since the ouds
are different. I have sound files and few pictures. I am waiting for him to send me more and I will upload them.
You will fall in love when you hear the sound.
+++++++++++
Michael-GOD BLESS EGYPT
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diane
Oud Addict
Posts: 41
Registered: 3-22-2010
Member Is Offline
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Thank you to all, esp. Fernand. Update coming shortly. And Bibo 10, you're right, Michael Moussa is an exceptional man. Thank you for that advice. :-)
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bibo10
Oud Junkie
Posts: 300
Registered: 11-10-2008
Location: New Jersey, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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You are very welcome, make sure you take advantage of him and good luck with your search. As i said I will start a thread soon containing some
renovated ouds by Michael Moussa, so stay tuned.
Another advice if I may, don't rush it!
see what is available and hear what people have to say, you will be surprised...
+++++++++++
Michael-GOD BLESS EGYPT
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Mehran
Oud Junkie
Posts: 210
Registered: 4-27-2006
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This may be of interest. A Sukar oud in the UK for auction.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sukar-oud-lute-ud-3ood-no-reserve_W0QQitemZ11...
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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I hasten to add that I see this is not "a 5 course oud", it's a standard 6 course, looks like the bottom string is just not installed.
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musiccorner
Banned
Posts: 14
Registered: 7-1-2010
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BEGINNER OUD FOR $150
PLEASE SEND YOUR EMAIL TO MUSICCORNER2009@YAHOO.COM
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