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Al Yahudi
Oud Addict
Posts: 29
Registered: 3-5-2009
Location: Middle-East New York City
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sahbak
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How do you know it is time to get a new oud ?
how do you know when its time to progress to a better oud ? i find that i am trying to do stuff with my amatuer oud that and it doesnt sound like what
i hear on recodings, tremolos on lower strings for example produce a very loose sound and the treble strings sound a little plastiki.
so if you advance to a better cleaner sound instrument , do you get better results and is it easier to progress with a better balanced instrument
?
I have an abou dagher that was bought it cairo and was told that it is a very decent instrument for a beginner.
I live in the holyland and can get better instruments around here but i dont know if i should exhast what i have first meaning play better with my
current instrument and then get a new one or get a new one and move on from there ?
thanks for he advice
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Sazi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 786
Registered: 9-17-2007
Location: Behind my oud
Member Is Offline
Mood: مبتهج ; ))
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From my own experience, it sounds like it's time to go to the next level, the way you describe it, sounds like I have felt, and when I got a better
instrument the things I was trying to do actually worked the way I expected them to, and sounded much better, it helped me to be cleaner in my playing
also.
That's just the way it worked for me anyway.
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alloushé
Oud Junkie
Posts: 100
Registered: 4-28-2010
Member Is Offline
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It is much more cool, pleasant, and you can learn faster with a good sound Oud. Oud is not only notes but there is notes feeling in my opinion, the
maquam that sounds cold on an instrument will very probably sound beautiful and cosy on a good instrument which encourage you to keep learning. It is
not everything, i have seen people with very good intrument but with dissonant playing.
So go and buy a new smooth strings pleasant instrument :-) Congratulations.
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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That's why I wanted to start with a decent instrument, but besides the inspiring good sound a good playability is even more important.
If the playability is ok, a better set of strings might be worth a thought, if not, a better oud is the right recommendation in my opinion.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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alloushé
Oud Junkie
Posts: 100
Registered: 4-28-2010
Member Is Offline
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i suppose a Good Oud should have good playability, if not, in my opinion it is not a good one 
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Shure, but you talked only of a good SOUNDING oud before
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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alloushé
Oud Junkie
Posts: 100
Registered: 4-28-2010
Member Is Offline
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maybe we should mention the distance between the strings and the neck surface for easy and smooth play 
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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It looks like our old guard friends don't like others talking but they sure don't bother answering questions/helping out. Sigh. OK. Al Yahudi: Maybe
you should say in more detail what you feel is wrong with your present oud, and how it's set up. It's 100% psychological (no matter what the oud is
"really" like) as you could have a masterpiece and not know it, and vice versa. It could be set up all wrong. Maybe some things like changing strings
etc would buy you some time to look around and decide what you really want. You could also spend a lot of money without being satisfied. So what
would you like to have different in your oud? The sound only? The feel of the reesha? Tell us what strings exactly are on it? How is it tuned? How
long us the string length from nut to bridge? How high are the strings above the soundboard at the neck-body junction? Since you are in NY, which of
these stacks of coins slip under the string at a) the bass side b) the treble side? Approximately ...
2 dimes = 2.5mm
1 nickel and a dime = 3mm
1 nickel and 1 quarter = 3.5mm
2 pennies and 1 dime = 4mm
2 Pennies and 1 nickel = 4.5mm
3 dimes and 1 penny = 5mm
Maybe someone can make a little table like that for Euro coins, it's a handy way to ask someone who's selling an oud and doesn't have any gauges.
And how are you studying/playing/practicing?
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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I think, this is very important, as Alloushé already mentioned. For my taste 3mm at the neck-body junction is the acceptable maximum. My oud has this
3mm, but I wish it would be even less. But the downside is, that a too low action results in string buzzing.
I think we don't need to stack coins to measure it ... a rule(r) will do this job fine
But I agree with you Tony, it would be helpful to know further details about the current oud ... string action, string brand, tuning, etc.. Maybe the
oud has potential for improvement?
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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Sazi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 786
Registered: 9-17-2007
Location: Behind my oud
Member Is Offline
Mood: مبتهج ; ))
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I don't think they have nickels and dimes in the holyland...
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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But they have this ...
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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Yo, Sazi, check it out, he's got 'em, his profile lists his location as Holy Land - New York City
Chris: In the Anglo coutries finding a centimeter ruler is sometimes VERY hard. Measuring in inches is horrible. And people measure unreliably. How
would you use the ruler you showed us? The coin stack is a simple way: what can you slip under the strings without touching. It's an e-bay tested
technique, even people that sign up for my life-improvement apprenticeship can measure oud action this way! C'mon Chris, do the Euros.
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Sazi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 786
Registered: 9-17-2007
Location: Behind my oud
Member Is Offline
Mood: مبتهج ; ))
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Is that like Holywood?
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alloushé
Oud Junkie
Posts: 100
Registered: 4-28-2010
Member Is Offline
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alloushé
Oud Junkie
Posts: 100
Registered: 4-28-2010
Member Is Offline
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old humor
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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You assume it had to be on purpose? Dear Sazi, I don't recall having any friction with you. The garbage words have no meaning. It's due to the
miserable touch-keyboard and defective auto-spell on the iPhone. Your finger touches somewhere, even existing text, the automatic tries to make words,
you end up with junk. I didn't notice it had done this. The iPhone carries some Goidelic ideas too dar. What I tried to type was "The iPhone carries
some good ideas too far". I don't think "Goidelic" or "dar" are english words either. Sorry.
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alloushé
Oud Junkie
Posts: 100
Registered: 4-28-2010
Member Is Offline
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advertisement for iphone  really that bad this machine?
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alloushé
Oud Junkie
Posts: 100
Registered: 4-28-2010
Member Is Offline
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Quote: Originally posted by Sazi  |
Or are you expecting me to believe that you can draw a perfect html quote box complete with the "quoted by" and the correct arrow symbol, with your
I-phone that you can't even spell on? |
hahahaha
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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I had always enjoyed your posts, dear Mr. Sazi, you sounded like a passionate oud player. I told you what happened with the quote and that I was
sorry.
Yes, Alloushé, iPhones have good and bad sides, the auto-correcting keyboard is tragic.
Sazi, I don't understand what you are going on and on about, and why you think I, or ANYONE for that matter, would deliberately insert a meaningless
nonsense typo into someone's quoted post - it makes zero sense.
And why this insulting tone, "can't even spell"' etc -- what on earth for? Is THAT when it's time to get a new oud ? Sazi, we were doing fine before.
How about we get back there?
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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| Quote: Originally posted by Sazi | | Or are you expecting me to believe that you can draw a perfect html quote box complete with the "quoted by" and the correct arrow symbol ...
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Why not? If I do a quote from the thread's page, the whole posting is set up as a quote ... I usually do it this way and delete manually, what I don't
want to quote.
If this fu...ing phone doesn't spell correctly ... maybe a firmware bug ... I think it's not unlikely, that Fernand has overseen it.
But I think the most important thing is ... he apologized!
So please ... let's have a tea again and calm down 
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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Sazi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 786
Registered: 9-17-2007
Location: Behind my oud
Member Is Offline
Mood: مبتهج ; ))
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Peace brothers.
(and I've removed my off-topic posts)
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alloushé
Oud Junkie
Posts: 100
Registered: 4-28-2010
Member Is Offline
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the positive side is that now i know that i should choose HTC Smartphone instead of Iphone
Ok let's kiss each other guys and everything is ok
incredible, how this post was diverted to another thing lol
Al yahudi, it is time to change your Oud yes,
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Al Yahudi
Oud Addict
Posts: 29
Registered: 3-5-2009
Location: Middle-East New York City
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sahbak
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I was really trying to stay out of the cat fight going on here.
You guys make me feel like drinking even more beer and appreciate metallica even more now. thanks.
We have coins from all over the world here its just I feel its a matter of feeling. I guess many ppl here come from guitar and so the first instrument
they bought wasnt a cheap built oud and so they dont really know what a right below intermediate level instrument feels like. I play by ear and am
looking to start taking classes soon, no teach yet. If you have someone to recommend I'd love to listen to your advise.
from where it all started. still dont feel like I have an answer under my belt ..
cheers and ...
back to orion
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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No, no, Yahudi, we have all sorts of ouds. And seriously you should describe exactly how your oud is set up, like we were asking, because you might
have setup problems that can be corrected.
As to learning, it depends if you are interested in learning Maqamat or oud technique or? For Maqamat, which I didn't expect to get as interested in,
but now think is a great way to learn oud, I keep telling people that OudProf's DVD is very useful, and it is.
In the Holy Land there are certainly teachers we hear of!
--------- re: iPhone
I like some things about the iPhone, but an HTC is great. The number of great iPhone apps is amazing, though, like the $1 Pano Chromatic Tuner.
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Sazi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 786
Registered: 9-17-2007
Location: Behind my oud
Member Is Offline
Mood: مبتهج ; ))
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Ok, here we go...
And it never will, unless you record your oud in the same professional level studio with the same kind of expensive microphones and outboard gear that
those studios use, and then get it mastered like the recordings you refer to.
| Quote: Originally posted by Al Yahudi | tremolos on lower strings for example produce a very loose sound and the treble strings sound a little plastiki.
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If you are using cheap strings (you don't say what strings you use) get better ones and see if it makes a difference.
Try different guage strings, if the bass strings feel/sound loose get slightly higher tension, go up a guage, for example if I use a Pyramid
silverwound 1012 for a d and it is like you describe, I change to a 1014 and it tightens up the feel/sound... go in small steps, to not put too much
strain on the oud. For your "plastiki" trebles try different material such as pvf for the trebles and see if that makes a difference.
| Quote: Originally posted by Al Yahudi |
so if you advance to a better cleaner sound instrument , do you get better results and is it easier to progress with a better balanced instrument
?
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We don't know how good your playing is on any oud, so no-one can answer that for you, but in my first response to your question I gave you the answer
of what worked for me, you are different. You say you have access to many different ouds there, so try a good one and you can answer your own question
better than us.
| Quote: Originally posted by Al Yahudi | i dont know if i should exhast what i have first meaning play better with my current instrument and then get a new one or get a new one and move on
from there ?
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See above.
You're welcome
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