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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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Please Help - my oud smells ... more and more AGAIN
I am traveling in Central America, by the ocean, where the temperature is high and the humidity feels complete. My traveling companion is a cheap oud
of unknown make. It had never smelled as nice as fresh woodwork, but ... it truly has a marvelous action!
In the climate here, the inside of the bowl has started to drown me with an organic odor that reminds me of nothing I want to hold near. It is getting
stronger by the minute.
It's most likely the glue. I guess dead horse remains have potential for smelling bad. I don't know. Has anyone had/tackled such a problem?
The only thing that comes to mind is attacking/spraying/washing the inside with something that might kill organisms, counter odors, you know. But a
water solution would likely dissolve the glue. Alcohol might attack the finish. I am in a third world country and certainly don't have access to a
chemistry lab. Any ideas? What would ordinary strength bleach do to wood and glue?
Thanks!
p.s. In the cooler/drier climate at home, there was just an odd smell you'd catch now and then. The paper strips inside
the bowl, and the leftover threads, are stiff from something, other than the golden glue streaks you see everywhere, like the maker painted the inside
of the bowl with some solution.
The oud is now on the balcony. I thought a sea breeze might help ... but out of the air conditioning it is getting worse at a Chernobyl rate. This is
not going well. Where it's going leaves me without an oud for the rest of the trip. Discarding an oud seems like a sin. Very depressing. Help,
please!
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Marcus
Oud Junkie
Posts: 446
Registered: 11-26-2008
Location: Stuttgart/ South Germany
Member Is Offline
Mood: Lost in music
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Hi Tony 
my oud also smells sometimes like...???...BAD!! But it is not a humidity-problem I think. Mine only smells if I play outside in the sun.As soon as I
move to shadow it disappears- the smell, not the oud- slowly.
I had the same problem with a small wooden drum before. Dont know if it was the glue or the skin...however.....try to get some cloves,peel an orange,
stick the cloves in the orange skin and put it in the bowl...hmmm....if the oud have open soundholes.This may not kill the smell totaly but`ll make it
much smoother:
Hope it helps.
Good luck,enjoy your trip!!
P.S.: If it doesn`t work and you cant get rid of the smell, try to hide the oud under your neighbors bed
Playing the oud is like feeding my soul with peace
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Hi Tony,
it seems to be the glue. On a german oud page I read about a glue, that is often used in instrument building and has to be fresh before use. If it is only a few days old, it
begins to smell badly. The problem is caused by bacteria.
It seems, that this is your problem ... maybe the oud was constructed with old glue. Due to the high humidity the odor comes back.
So the solution would be a desinfectant, but it has to be a gas. I know a product called F10 which is perfect for this task, but it's origin is South Africa (there are distributors in several countries), so though you can get it in the States (try the UK distributor), I fear you can't in Central America.
BTW ... I use F10 myself for my bird cages ... this product is absolutely great. Though it's kills all bacteria, fungal spores and most viruses, it
is much softer to human and animal bodies, than most other desinfectants.
In your case, I would use F10 by evaporation. That should help you to get rid of the bacteria easily without doing any harm to the oud's wood.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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dubai244
Oud Junkie
Posts: 490
Registered: 3-8-2004
Location: Dubai, UAE
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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very simple use dudrent ........  )
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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Marcus, your reply is a little like when a guy asks how to kill his mother in law, and somebody says "I have a mother in law too". I fear the time for
cloves and oranges and chocolates and flowers is past
I can smell the oud from 3 meters away. Playing it is what they call a mixed feeling, they used to say like "my mother in law driving off a cliff in
my favorite mercedes". In this case I can add .. "and with me in it too."
I had to run the air conditioner for a while. Froze my butt off, but the bacteria are fine. I had a raccoon once. They are so much like humans, they
make monkeys look like clowns. My raccoon used to flush objects down the toilet, just to see them go! Anyway, one thing he used to do, infrequently
thank God, was to scratch his butt and then sniff his fingers and make a disapproving face with a shiver. That's how I feel when I try to play that
oud!
Aymara, yeah, hmm, a German suggests a South African gas ... I'm at the stage of hiring Chemical Ali, but I think he's no longer with us. I
fear finding anything like F10 is unlikely: their business telephone directory only lists tours, tortillas and time-share condominiums.
It took me two days, in a city of 200,000, to find a Spanish-English dictionary. You'd think they spoke creole!
A taxi driver took me to a supermarket, a Wallmart, a "papeteria" (up a flight of stairs), a bookstore, and everywhere the same "no se", the same
blank look and the same rack of recycled school notebooks, motorcycle magazines, photos of wrestlers and "novella" comic books. What do they
bother writing in those notebooks?
There are cultures in which the dictionary is considered unnecessary. At the mention of a dictionary the most chauvinistic people will look at you
like you are suggesting they wash their feet! "I KNOW what the words mean, you ... estupido" .... "Disinfeccion? Porqe? my cheekens is ALL cleen,
senor! Yes, my seester ees cleen too!"
How about Irradiacion? Well, there are some people who shouldn't fool with nukular stuff.
Dudrent ? what is dudrent?
More ideas, please!
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mrkmni
Oud Junkie
Posts: 393
Registered: 12-9-2007
Location: Ottawa/Canada
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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That is strange, the oud is supposed to -live- in hot countries.
You should probably ask Mr. Sukar, you have his email on the oud.
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littleseb
Oud Junkie
Posts: 224
Registered: 10-14-2008
Location: london - uk
Member Is Offline
Mood: high
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There's only one thing I can think of:
Don't wash for a month. That way your very own odour will probably overshadow the smell of your oud. Just make sure you set up a video link to your
live-performances, or you'll sure loose your horde of fans.
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David.B
Oud Junkie
Posts: 640
Registered: 9-5-2009
Location: France
Member Is Offline
Mood: Renaissance
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Sorry I could resist... But I hope you'll find something better !
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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Dear mr mrkmni: 1) this is not a Sukar oud, I noted it was "of unknown make". Sukar ouds have a nice smell of fresh wood. 2) Ouds do fine in hot and
dry, yes. Tropical and humid, no. People have all sorts of problems in high humidity. Mr Powell, for instance had his "muy complexo sarouditar" come
unglued in Cairo. He's lucky the papier-maché didn't clump into a gump.
Seeking "remedios para tragedia malodorata", I have so far only found "desodorante para flatulencias", under "inventos absurdos", which
(as my dictionary is not yet unpacked) I believe means "inventory of our absolutely [best]".
http://inventosabsurdos.com/2007/01/13/desodorante-para-flatulencia...
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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That might be your chance to sell this oud at a high price. Otherwise you risk being arrested as a biohazzard terrorist, when returning it to the US
| Quote: | | Aymara, yeah, hmm, a German suggests a South African gas |
Yes, though I'm an anti-fascist, I do. 
To get serious again ... F10 is not a gas, but a highly concentrated fluid, that has to be fluxed with water. But it also kills germs, when
evaporated. It is also used by veterinarians to cure respiratory infections in parrots by inhalation, which is much less harmful to the body (organs)
of the bird, than the usual pharmaceutical products, which have a lot of negative side effects.
| Quote: | | How about Irradiacion? |
In modern hospitals the operating rooms are irradiated by UV-C lamps to desinfect them ... they are also used in sea water fish tank technique for the
same purpose.
But first I doubt, you'll find such a lamp in Central America and second UV-C light is extremely dangerous for every living being, even a few seconds
!!! A further problem will be that your oud has rosettes, so it would be very difficult to illuminate the inside of the bowl good enough.
| Quote: | | Dudrent ? what is dudrent? |
Uncle Google says it's a deodorant.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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I'm going to go to a Farmacia in dark glasses today and ask for some sort of poison.
"Por favor, una substanzia totalmente toxica"
We'll see what they suggest.
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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That might be a risk, because many products are not harmless to the human body. Good luck.
Ask for quarternary ammonium compound (QAC), which is the main ingrediant of F10 and will help in the same way without risks for humans and
animals as far as the fluid doesn't get in contact with mucosa. I'm not shure if you can get that there, but it's worth a try.
PS: A further thought: The odor comes from excrements of bacteria as it seems and it might stay a long time even if the bacteria are eliminated.
Though I'm not shure.
PPS: How high is the humidity in your region? If it's above 70% it might be a fungi instead of a bacteria problem. But in both cases F10 and QAC will
help to get rid of these bastards. But other products are often developed for only one of them ... bacteria OR fungi.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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Ah, yes, the old quaternary ammonium compounds.
EXCREMENTO DE BACTERIAS??!!! AYI!
At this point it's ruining my oud practice, I'm desperate, I'll try anything, and I'm wondering if a quick rinse with ordinary bleach might not be
worth a try?
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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It's like humans, with bacteria? They don't so much smell, of themselves, but their outhouses and portable toilets and their dead, that's what smells?
What a thought!
I'll be coming home on the autobus with a bag of toxicalia. And a little pine tree shaped thing you hang on the rear view mirror.
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Don't miss my PPS above!
PS: Bleach will harm the wood!
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Hydrogen peroxide might be a further way that is not that risky as other products. You should be able to get that all around the world.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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OK, here is the slowly evolving strategy, in ascending strength: 1) Spray with something like Lysol or something the farmacia offers 2) liquid
Hydrogen peroxide using improvised spray bottle or just a quick rinse 3) Chlorine bleach using spray bottle or quick rinse. The oud has 3 soundholes
and no shamsa.
Humidity is over 80%. Feels like 100%. Whatever is happening it was there already, it just got worse.
Maybe go right to bleach? dilute the bleach maybe 1/3 and spray the inside of the bowl with it? Dry with a low setting hair dryer. Why would bleach be
so harmful? A diluted bleach is very effective against every living thing, and the wood is not living. People use bleach on butcher blocks without
destroying the wood.
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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... is the way I would take, if QAC isn't available, because it's the most harmless choice. It's even used to desinfect open wounds without pain.
| Quote: | | Humidity is over 80%. |
... is a huge downside, because if you spray the wood, how can it dry out at such a high humidity?
| Quote: | | Whatever is happening it was there already, it just got worse. |
Then it are most likely bacteria, but we can't exclude fungi. Regarding a quick Google research hydrogen peroxide kills both. Most other desinfectants
only kill bacteria, but no spores ... like alcohol too.
| Quote: | | People use bleach on butcher blocks without destroying the wood. |
Such blocks are usually varnished ... the ouds bowl isn't from the inside. I fear, it might damage the wood or even loosen the glue. I'm not shure.
I think, QAC and HP will work with the least risks.
PS: Be careful with the hair dryer so the wood doesn't warp.
PPS: Regarding a quick research HP might bleach the wood, but it does no harm to the glue.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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Jonathan
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1582
Registered: 7-27-2004
Location: Los Angeles
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Skip the hair dryer. When the glue gets warm, the joints are going to get loose and pull apart. As tempting as it might seem, I would avoid the hair
dryer at all costs.
Based on absolutely nothing at all, I would go with a very light spray of bleach.
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Stringish
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dilute the bleach 50/50. It won't harm the wood as long as you mist it lightly (ie., don't saturate the wood). People use bleach all the time to
remove stains from wood.
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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Thanks for the ideas so far.
Let me tell you the sequel. I returned from town armed with Lysol, Bleach and Peroxide. The bus ride back was a modern version of the famous "chicken
buses". No animals, but boys with cell phones playing donkey gong and what have you. At the speed bumps the driver would close his eyes and pretend
his passengers were still sitting, when in fact everyone was airborne. My damaged back was damaged some more. "no suspencion".
Upon arrival, I tried running through the garden to reach the little store at the hotel before it closed, but the little synthetic stream was "closed
for the night", meaning the lights were out. The crossing stones were slippery. Visibility mediocre. I slipped, my back gave out and I landed in the
pool. It must have been funny, as the hotel ladies laughed as they helped me back on dry land. Fortunately I had left my phone and camera behind. The
money and credit cards will dry out OK. The store was closed by the time I reached it. There was no point in changing clothes, the weather was warm,
and I was angry, let them suffer the wet man if they must turn off the lights. So everywhere I went I was standing in a pool of water. My proudest
moment was entering the dining room and waiting in a growing puddle for the maitre d' to seat me. He pretended he didn't notice. The water dripping
off my sleeve at the salad bar was also a fine moment.
In my room, in vengeance, I sprayed the inside of the oud bowl with Lysol, enough to wet the wood, without thoroughly researching the proportions of
water and alcohol in the "carrier". It did say it kills "huevos" or was it "hondas" or "hongos". Anyway, that's 'shrooms/fungi, it kills 'em. I'm not
feeling friendly towards the oud. If it gets killed too, at this point, I don't care.
I found a corner of the balcony where the sea breeze is concentrated like a sort of wind-tunnel, and propped the instrument there to dry by
evaporation. Of course, how much evaporation is a very good question. I could use a desert. A couple of hours later the oud smells better, but feels a
little sticky, so I have little choice but to take it inside, turn on the air conditioner and hope for the best.
Anybody who's used Lysol almost vomits at the "fresh scent" promised on the can, a smell that reminds them of countless covered-up horrors. Lysol
probably kills nothing, but simulates "the absence of", as if in a field of make-believe chemical flowers. A metaphysical process. The next step, if I
can survive the night in a chilly room with a Lysoled oud, will be to find a sprayer-bottle to try a bleach attack.
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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I just had a flash of insight into the nature of hell.
You know how you can always wait for something to cool off, because there is a "sink" that heat will be pulled to? The same is true of moisture.
Things will dry out, because there is a "sink" that absorbs moisture. Well, imagine now a place where there are no "sinks"! Nothing EVER cools down.
Nothing EVER dries. Now let us imagine being there with a smelly oud. In other words the most divine and inspiring instrument, but one that has that
nagging flaw. You want to play it, but it's so distasteful you end up playing air hockey instead. That's Hell.
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Oh man, that all sounds like a nightmare, where Freddy Krüger will be coming around next playing your stinky oud with a knife instead of a risha
I wish you the return of luck!
Regarding drying the oud's wood ... maybe it helps to blow with the hair dryer through the sound holes from a greater distance so that the only effect
is dry air blowing inside instead of hot air ... the hair dryer reduces the humidity in the blown air drastically.
What do think friends? Might that be worth a try?
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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alfaraby
Oud Junkie
Posts: 796
Registered: 9-18-2009
Location: Holy Land
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Mood: Cool
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I have a 1960 oud suffering from the same problem as yours !
Is it possible that 50 years aren't enough time to make this stink fade away ?
I tried some deodorants, but they evaporated leaving the same smell even worse, like using a stick on an unwashed underarms !
I'm tuned to see what comes up from Fernand's trip.
Yours indeed
Alfaraby
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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50 years? That made me do a further research and guess what ... it's not unusual as it seems and also well known between experts, that wood glue can
rot under certain conditions and the bad odor is caused by rot bacteria.
HERE I found a german article about art paintings, where glue is used. And there chlorine hydrate is recommended to be mixed in the glue before
using it to avoid rotting. I also found a book scan written in old german script, where was told, that the odor of rotten gue could be removed with
coffee ... yes, water and coffee.
I think you should do your own research about rotting glue to find further tips.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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