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alaa93
Oud Admirer
Posts: 6
Registered: 9-8-2010
Member Is Offline
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Sukar Ouds
Hi, I am a new member to the forums and I just got a new sukar oud. I just wanted to let everyone know that you can get an inexpensive sukar oud on
alibaba.com from a small company called music corner. The man that you contact sells model 212s for 450 dollars. It's legit because that is where I
got my oud from. Just press on the contact button to speak with a man named idder hicham. They ship strait from syria.
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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I do wish some of these glowing reports came from people who haven't just materialized out of thin air 
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Alan-TX
Oud Junkie
Posts: 118
Registered: 2-18-2008
Member Is Offline
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You beat me to it fernandraynaud.
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alaa93
Oud Admirer
Posts: 6
Registered: 9-8-2010
Member Is Offline
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I am a new member to mikeouds and I didn't come out of thin air. Look me up on youtube and facebook. My name is Alaa Abdulbaki and my youtube account
is arabpride93. I bought a sukar oud from this company. I wouldn't waste my time telling you this if it wasn't real.
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DoggerelPundit
Oud Junkie
Posts: 141
Registered: 7-28-2010
Location: Pacific Northwest
Member Is Offline
Mood: Odar
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Was it Nasreddin Hoja who said "he who slings mud loses ground"?
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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Aw, Dogg, as Hodja said, don't be so hard on yourself !
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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 I friend therefore I am (Amico ergo sum)-- or my name isn't Fernand!
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charlie oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 694
Registered: 11-19-2007
Location: Newcastle upon tyne. UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: chords prefer frets
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My dear fellow forum members please can we at least welcome new members and then discuss whatever.
 Welcome to the forum Alaa. Hope you enjoy your Sukar oud and thanks for
sharing information.
Best Wishes, Charlie
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alaa93
Oud Admirer
Posts: 6
Registered: 9-8-2010
Member Is Offline
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Thank you charlie. That's descent of you. Everyone else has attacked me. Oh and, how else are we supposed to verify our existence on the internet
other than by using facebook or youtube? You can check out my videos on youtube. I'm trying to learn the oud but I find it difficult, any advice.
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alaa93
Oud Admirer
Posts: 6
Registered: 9-8-2010
Member Is Offline
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All I wanted to do is share this information with other people because I think it is a very good deal. If you don't believe me then it's your loss. I
don't appreciate being called a liar.
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2918
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Stringish
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Alaa, please do not take offense; no one called you a liar.
Fernand rather politely remarked on how your very first post just happened to be a glowing review of a particular online merchant. He made
no accusations.
It's an unusual way to introduce yourself, except of course for online merchants.
We've had quite a few merchants show up here shilling for their products. It doesn't make them bad people or unreliable sellers, but it does raise
some eyebrows. Your post followed, however coincidentally, the exact pattern that such posts always follow.
If a remarkable coincidence occurs, then it's only natural to remark upon it. If I chanced upon a piece of toast with the visage of St. Francis on
it, I would certainly mention it (and sell it on Ebay!).
The reality is, recommendations from new members who no one knows yet are wisely regarded with caution. That fact has nothing to do with you and is
no assault on you personally. Nobody "attacked" you.
It does sound like a good deal, I hope that it proves a reliable source.
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alaa93
Oud Admirer
Posts: 6
Registered: 9-8-2010
Member Is Offline
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Sorry Brian Prunka, I understand that merchants always try to advertise on this forum and that you don't trust them or me but I am not a merchant, I
am just a student.
It's my fault, I should've introduced myself in a better way. Hi, i'm Alaa Abdulbaki and I love to sing arabic songs(you can watch my youtube videos)
and I love the oud. I really really want to learn. Oh I also play, what you call a doumbek. Sorry about posting something like that without
introducing myself. I bought my oud from the merchant I talked about before because I had little money to spare. He turned out to be valid and now I
know I can trust him.
Thank you for your time
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spyros mesogeia
Oud Junkie
Posts: 896
Registered: 9-10-2003
Location: WASHINGTON DC
Member Is Offline
Mood: play my ouds
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Dear friend,
each flower has his own perfume.
An oud that fits to you and you are satisfited it's very possible not to be the same for somebody else.....
I am sure as you will start to get in to the oud more and more you will start to reconsider your opinion and your way of judging the quality and the
sound of the ouds....each flower has his own parfume,each maker his own sound-quality-personality.
Personally I 've been 11 years ago to your place,all the ouds were the ''best'' and I just couldn't see many diferences....
After 11 years with the oud,21 years with music,I still believe that I am only at the beginning,and after hundrends of ouds that I tried ,I can say
that now I start to see some details that I couldn't see before 10 years...
And ofcourse,I am only at the begining as many of us.....
The oud is a very good friend....just love it and you will learn it.....it's the sound of your soul....let it speak my friend
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2918
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Stringish
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Hey Alaa, no worries--welcome to the forum. Glad to have you aboard.
cheers
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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Yes, Welcome alaa93.
There's another issue here, allow me to explain, which is that if your one transaction went OK, you don't want to stick your neck out and endorse a
merchant more than to say you got one instrument and you were happy with what you got. It's not impossible that a more experienced oudist COULD
possibly say the neck adjustment only goes from 3 to 6 mm, the lower bracing is glued on in the wrong place, the bass is atypically weak and it's the
least playable and worst-sounding 212 that HE's ever seen. That's part of what Spyros is driving at.
More importantly, many people here, and I'm one of them, have had good experiences mixed with nightmares from the same merchants. When the instrument
has no defects and it arrives 100% OK, everybody is all smiles. But when things go wrong, and for me they often have, that's when you get to know your
vendor a little better. Like learning his insurance doesn't exist after all, that returning the oud is out of the question, that there is no way to
prove how much money he actually got, that he ignores your desperate messages and/or becomes rude, and that getting even a partial refund is like
pulling teeth from a rhinoceros.
So what does this have to do with you? One vendor was endorsed a little hastily and enthusiastically by one of our members, who was relatively
inexperienced and was happy with the beginner's oud he got (though it was advertised as "professional" and he might have been a little more
sensitive to the misrepresentation). A brand new member read his glowing endorsement and jumped in to place an order, a little too quickly. He
received something that was not as advertised, that needs significant repairs and that HE was quite unhappy with it. When he wanted to return it he
discovered the realities, AND he was treated pretty badly.
It was nice of you to share your one positive experience, and nobody is calling you a liar. But you can't blame us for having grown a little wary, and
in any case you surely wouldn't want to take responsibility beyond what you know and experienced first hand, nothing more and nothing less, especially
on your first post.
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alaa93
Oud Admirer
Posts: 6
Registered: 9-8-2010
Member Is Offline
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You are absolutely right fernandraynaud. I was suspicious at first but the man kept to his word. Oudistcamp, I got my doumbek from Lebanon haha.
Thanks a lot for the advice spyros.
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spyros mesogeia
Oud Junkie
Posts: 896
Registered: 9-10-2003
Location: WASHINGTON DC
Member Is Offline
Mood: play my ouds
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You are welcome my friend.
Peace
Spyros
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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There's an important detail, lesson two. If you live in California you don't know that NO prices in the world at large are real. California is the
only place people believe in what they are quoted. In the Middle East, anyone who accepts the first quoted price is considered a rude idiot who
doesn't have the courtesy of playing the game, a complete moron who deserves to be reamed.
Lesson three. Don't broadcast the details of your underwear,
as you are interfering with the flow and haggle of free trade.
And when someone gets screwed, they'll come back and be mad at you.
A man who was dining at Crew's
Found quite a large fly in his stew.
Said the waiter: don't shout
And waive it about
Or the others will be wanting one too.
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Alfaraby
Oud Junkie
Posts: 796
Registered: 9-18-2009
Location: Holy Land
Member Is Offline
Mood: Cool
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One simple, informative non-provocative, question : Why to buy from a dealer, while you can contact Sukkar's site directly
?
As much as I know they sell all over the world ! Isn't that so ?
I know also that these types won't cost that much, no matter where you ship them
Thank you
Yours indeed
Alfaraby
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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Alfaraby, for people who don't read/write Arabic, I don't think that's an option, apparently even Sukar himself does not know English. Besides, I
don't believe they will ship out single quantity.
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MvT
Oud Admirer
Posts: 7
Registered: 9-30-2010
Member Is Offline
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Bad experience
I’m embarrassed to say that fernandraynaud was right in his post warning about unknown oud sellers.
I followed Alaa93’s recommendation and decided to order a Sukar oud # 212 from
the company” Music Corner” in Syria.
I have an old Syrian friend there and had him call the seller to make sure he was legitimate.
In the mean time the seller Idder Hicham emailed me prices and photos of all the Sukar oud models.
We agreed on a price of $550 including shipping and I told him specifically that I want a Sukar Model #212.
He told me the instrument would be insured, so no worries !!!!
What I got was an oud that looked more like a Model #1.
It didn’t have a certificate of authentication by Ibrahim Sukar inside,
but by a person named Naieem Sekar from Aleppo.
After careful inspection I detected a crack in the neck next to the beg box.
I took photos and sent them to Mr. Hicham with the question ,why he did not send
the model I ordered.
He did not respond, but 2 days later sent me an email wanting positive feedback on the oud forum website.
I sent him a detailed email again with even more photos and questions about the origin of this oud and why he did not send an Ibrahim Sukar oud #212,
as I had ordered.
His answers were contradicting and he blamed everybody around him, starting with Ibrahim Sukar;
that he cannot fill his orders in time and is only out to make as much money as he can;
to his business partner who had sold the last Sukar oud to somebody else and even to a member of the oud forum.
He finally told me that the oud was made by Ibrahim Sukar’s brother Naem Sukar, which I questioned, since the name on the label inside the oud is
different.
He did not send the oud in a hard case as it was stated in his first email and he later said he never agreed to it and had never sent out an oud in a
Sukar fiber hard case, even though he advertises it on his website.
He told me that the oud I got was 10 times better than a Sukar #1 and would normally coast $750 .
My response to him was that I wanted a Sukar #212
and if he has none available right now, I would like to return the oud and get a refund and wait till he gets the model #212…........no response
from him.
In the mean time I had contacted a friend in Norway who restores historical instruments and asked him about the possibility of fixing the crack.
As I weighed my options, I mailed Mr. Hicham, asking how much the instrument was insured for and that I would like to put a claim in, so I could get
this oud fixed.
Today, when I opened the carton, the beg box was fully broken off the neck.
I took a photo and sent it to him telling him I really want to file an insurance claim.
I went to the post office and called the international postal claims department.
They were very helpful, but told me that a claim has also to be filed from the sender’s side.
When I emailed Mr. Hicham about the situation, he told me he had already thrown away the receipt of my tracking number.( the oud had arrived this
weekend)
He claimed that I had broken the oud on purpose to get money; that I’m a liar and inexperienced oudist and I would wind up in jail because my claim
is false.
What customer service!
I know this sounds like a bad soap and the reason I’m writing in such detail is to let people know about the fraudulent and criminal behavior of
this seller,
I know I will never get my money back, but I can warn people not to buy from the company called Music Corner owned by Idder Hicham of Damascus
Syria.
My friend in Syria will try to press charges against him. He has tried to reach him by phone several times, but Mr. Hicham hangs up on him.
So my final question is:
where can I get the oud repaired?
Thanks in advance for your patients to read through this saga.
MvT
PS: No hard feelings about Alaa93.
He has been very supportive!
I have been in contact with him while I was trying to deal with this seller.
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Zulu
Oud Junkie
Posts: 149
Registered: 6-21-2004
Location: Austin, Texas
Member Is Offline
Mood: I'm in the m'Oud for Love!
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To those who may not know...
If you search the user "musiccorner" you will find the ranking under the name is Banned
Quote: Originally posted by Greg  |
Dear Oudmasterusa (formerly 'musiccorner'),
As a result of complaints about your one line posts with no dialogue other than your email address, I banned you once and I will do so again unless
you wish to participate on these forums in a meaningful way.
If you have products to sell, please provide details of those products and not just post your email address on every thread where someone has
indicated an interest in purchasing an instrument.
Greg |
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MvT
Oud Admirer
Posts: 7
Registered: 9-30-2010
Member Is Offline
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Thanks Zulu,
I should have read this post and the whole thread earlier, before I placed the order!!!
but now I saw that others in the forum had similar problems with sellers in Syria.
I feel there is no win situation and the best is to let others know,
that these sellers are not trustworthy.
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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Sorry to hear of your troubles, MvT. But let me just add that I'm not sure it's over and you have to give up. You're at the stage where things are
just getting picturesque. If you want to recoup at least some of the money you have to really use your imagination.
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Arab Instrument
Oud Junkie
Posts: 269
Registered: 4-27-2009
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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I am sorry to hear about your story and about your bad experience with this dealer.
I know that in my company you would get the original oud you have ordered and in case of a damage to the oud during the shipping we would refund your
money back.
Assaf
http://www.arabinstruments.com
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