Estebanana _Stephen Faulk
Oud Addict
Posts: 25
Registered: 6-16-2010
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Stinky Oud Roto Router Procedure
I've got a restoration going now that is going well, but the oud was really stinky when I began. It had a lot of wood flour mixed glue smeared
inside. I've been removing the black rancid glue and making new paper strips for the seams.
So far I've removed enough black glue to fill the bottom of a small milk carton 2" high. That is just the glue I was able to get off my tools more of
it stuck to the towel and rags I used to wipe it clean.
In the photo you can see I have removed about half the glue so far. ( I'm further in the process now) The end block was covered too.  Rock on !
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Estebanana _Stephen Faulk
Oud Addict
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Here's another view
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Estebanana _Stephen Faulk
Oud Addict
Posts: 25
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And what could this be doing?
Sorry I'm cheaper than Dr. Oud, I have no risha for the one who guesses it. His contests are obviously better. 
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
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Location: San Francisco, California
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Mood: m'Oudy
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It's obviously a monocle, trying to help the oud see better in its travels, like reading road signs and billboards.
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Estebanana _Stephen Faulk
Oud Addict
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I laughed out loud on that one. but no.
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FastForward
Oud Junkie
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Are you gluing a cracked rib? The glass is serving to keep the rib from protruding to the outside as it is being glued.
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Estebanana _Stephen Faulk
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Yes, you got it. The rib area right in the spot is literally paper thin so I used that plexiglass caul to keep it from blistering out when it was
moistened with hot glue.
I'm getting near the end of the glue removal stage. I'll show another picture when it's done. It looks really nice now. More importantly it will have
clean healthy ribs I'll fit the braces back in and make a new top. It wil be nice now that the braces ends will touch the ribs instead of being
plastered with glue and junk.
Here is one of the braces showing the black glue I'll remove. I'll use the old braces to re brace a new spruce top.
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Estebanana _Stephen Faulk
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Here are the braces looking like ribs from a dredged up Viking ship ready to be reassembled----I can dream ....
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
Posts: 3485
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Do you have more information about the oud - date, maker and where made as well as dimensions?
The profile of the bowl is interesting. Can you provide a 'full face' image - taken at highest resolution at a distance (to minimise optical
distortion)?
The grain direction of the original (?) braces is also of interest. Does the grain of the wood run across the cross section of the braces (as it does
in old lutes) or does it run vertically?
Thanks
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Estebanana _Stephen Faulk
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I don't know where the oud was made, who made it or when. It's a mystery. The owner does not know either. I suspect it is about 60 to 70 years old-
best guess.
The forum does not support such big photo files, but I can take one later in the week an email it to you.
The grain in the braces runs cross section as it should. This oud sounds really good, the top was compromised over time by a broken brace or two which
allowed the top to distort wildly. At some point someone also sanded the top too thin and it began to disintegrate around the lower edges near the
tail block. I consulted with none other than Dr. Oud last year about this and after several months the owner decided to have me make a new top for it.
The length from tail block to neck joint is 19 5/8" and the width at the widest point of the bowl is 12 3/4".
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Estebanana _Stephen Faulk
Oud Addict
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Here is the original bridge, I'm going to make a new one. I don't like this one and I don't think it's that hot.
Since this particular oud is anonymous and not made with a lot of care I'm going to actually make some parts better and more in compliance with the
standards of a finer instrument. It was pretty much slapped together and then adulterated with some black sludge so we're rescuing it and using the
bowl, original braces and neck to build it back into a good players instrument. If it had been a rare oud the ethical treatment of the original would
have taken a different tack.
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Sazi
Oud Junkie
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Location: Behind my oud
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Mood: مبتهج ; ))
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...as it should on Lutes, Oud bracing usually runs vertically.
Cheers, S
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Estebanana _Stephen Faulk
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You know you're abso(lute)ly correct about ouds. But in lute braces the grain runs parallel to the plane of top. ( I've studied with a lute maker so
I have this on good authority.)
However the old ouds I've opened up in some cases do have grain that runs parallel to the top. This particular one does and I'm going to use as many
of the old braces on the new top as possible.
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Sazi
Oud Junkie
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Location: Behind my oud
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Mood: مبتهج ; ))
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Yes, kind of odd that oud bracing follows guitar bracing now, I imagine that originally oud braces were all parallel grained like lutes, being cut
from soundboard stock (?) I'm sure JD has some theories about this, maybe even here on the forum somewhere...
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Estebanana _Stephen Faulk
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Who is JD? I can tell you exactly why with lute braces the grain on is oriented parallel to the top.
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
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The grain of the bracing of my old Egyptian oud currently under restoration runs - approximately - parallel to the face as is usual on surviving lutes
(the grain slopes a quite a lot - the oud sound board being quite rough in its construction - but the grain is not vertical as found in modern guitar
practice).
I discussed this briefly on the forum some years ago. I don't know exactly why the lute makers of the 16th and 17th C arranged for the grain of lute
braces to run parallel to the face but have suggested that the braces may have been conveniently cut from the sound board billets that in those times
would have been split (not sawn) 'on the quarter' from a log and so left somewhat oversize in thickness. Lute braces being about 3mm - 4 mm or so in
thickness there would have been sufficient excess material in a sound board billet to make this possible.
The grain orientation also allows for a stronger glue joint to the sound board (glued end grain joints tend to be weak) as well as there being less
dimensional change with humidity variations in the shorter grain quarter cut wood. However, these are likely structural details of minor
importance?
A reduced sized 'full frontal' image within the size restrictions for posting should be just fine for now. If it looks promising enough to warrant a
more detailed geometrical analysis then a higher resolution image (sent by email) would be appreciated.
Note that as there are so few old ouds that survive for future generations to appreciate, any parts that are considered to be original and absolutely
require replacement in order to restore an instrument to playing condition should replicate the original part as closely as possible.
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Estebanana _Stephen Faulk
Oud Addict
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So JD, I'm curious do you actually build instruments or do you mainly theorize about stuff? I'm just trying to gather a full understanding your level
of knowledge of instrument construction and repair so I can respond.
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
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Location: Ontario, Canada
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I built my first instrument in 1963 - a copy of a 19th C Torres guitar. Losing interest in classical guitar I then - in 1971 - switched to
researching, building and playing lutes and related instruments of the 16th and 17th C (as well as early harps). I also, more recently, have restored
and maintained 19th C keyboard instruments for local museums (but have now lost interest in that field).
How about you?
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Estebanana _Stephen Faulk
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Well, JD I was born in 1963. I grew up for a while and then in 1979 I apprenticed in a violin bow makers shop. It's been mostly downhill since then as
I did have my chances to become various things like an architect or linguist or cellist or anthropologist. Unfortunately for me after I received a
masters degree in some liberal arts gobbillty gook I gravitated back to studying instrument building with a violin maker, lute maker, a well known
classical guitar maker and a very high level restorer of rare guitars and now have landed into being a workaday full time restorer and builder. And I
too find much of it tedious and boring.
However I tend to joke around about the tedious and boring parts and put up with them as part of any job worth doing. Admittedly I'm not that
interesting in theoretical musings much past what is practically useful for building or restoration. My approach to ethics is more akin to making
instruments play and last structurally while keeping them as original as possible rather than static museum conservation ethics.
I had to ask what your experience was because, perhaps you did not intend this, but your asking me to provide you with various data that would take me
out of my way of making a living seemed, to put it mildly, dictatorial. I'm all for taking one for the team and everything, but I'm kind of old
fashioned and I need to wined and dined a little before I sleep around and spread information.
Most of my experience with ouds is based on the knowledge I gained working under the tutelage of Mel Wong also a workaday lute maker and repairer. Any
information about basic structures of oud bowls and general oud architecture comes to me through the areas where lutes and oud construction
intersect. Everything else I figured out through Richard Handkey's book, direct observation and by emailing him a bit.
I also have the not so bad bias about past masters like Stradivari and Nahat that they made great instruments because they put the shoulder to the
wheel and were also workaday luthiers. They were good because they were born to be who they were and they worked hard to get better. I don't believe
in tricks, just sharp tools and time spent using them.
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
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Location: Ontario, Canada
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With respect, if you post your stuff on this forum you should not be surprised or offended (as you seem to be) if others happen to ask questions, out
of interest, in what you are doing - for information or clarification.
If you do not wish to spend a little time in sharing some basic details about your project without being 'wined and dined a little before sleeping
around' - then please don't bother. Life is too short!
Mike's Oud Forum, where knowledge is generally freely exchanged among open minded individuals in the best of friendly spirits, could be an instructive
experience for you as well as a useful source of information about the oud and other related instruments.
Good luck.
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Estebanana _Stephen Faulk
Oud Addict
Posts: 25
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JD,
In fact you did offend me by coming on without an introduction or anything friendly and basically demand that I give stats on the oud I'm working on.
Frankly it felt like you were giving me orders. Perhaps you're well known on this forum and it's your territory or something, but that does not mean
I have jump when you say jump.
I'm only here because I do work on ouds and I have them coming to me more and more and I though it might be nice to learn more about them. I'm always
hoping Dr. Oud will jump in and suggest things to me or make a comment on what I'm working on. I've already established a bit of a relationship with
him and know his mettle as a builder and repairer so I know where I stand, which is I know he is far more accomplished with the oud than I am.
If you had said hey hello there I've never seen you before but I'm doing such and such would you mind terribly if I asked for some data...blah blah
blah- Don't l think it would have been too much to ask. So I just wrote things on your glair thread that reflected the way you treated me.
Thanks for the warm welcome.
And some of the things you said about lute construction are incorrect, you may want to research that or take some lessons with a lute maker before you
lecture on the subject.
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Greg
Administrator
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Gentlemen, the above is a classic example of the limitations of forums and email as a means of communication. Sometimes we assume things about a
poster that, over subsequent posts, prove to be wrong.
There is nothing in Stephen's early posts to suggest he is expert in instrument repair. On the other hand, there is nothing in his posts to suggest
otherwise.
The fact that he is taking on such a complex repair is an indicator, but the forums have seen many threads from folks taking on repairs that are
clearly beyond their capabilities.
No doubt, that is what prompted some of the posts requesting details and offering advice. In all cases, I am sure no ill will was intended.
In this case, Stephen is an expert luthier and the purpose of his posts was to share his current project with other forum members.
So Stephen, welcome to the forums and thanks for sharing the details of this project. We look forward to many more interactions, in the future.
Here is Stephen's website, for those wishing to get a handle on his particular areas of passion/expertise: http://www.sfguitars.net/index.htm
Warm regards to all.
Greg
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