Zulu
Oud Junkie
Posts: 149
Registered: 6-21-2004
Location: Austin, Texas
Member Is Offline
Mood: I'm in the m'Oud for Love!
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Palmyrami buying experience
My current dealing with Palmyrami. I ordered a Sukar 212 two and a half months ago and still have not received it.
The tracking number only gives a reply of “Placed in box”, that doesn’t tell me anything!
I’ve received nothing but excuses and empty promises.
Palmyrami keeps telling me to check the U.S. Post Office to see if it has arrived; there is nothing to check.
The tracking number is Syrian Post and shows nothing in the U.S. postal system.
I have been very patient and Palmyrami has not offered any compensation for this inconvenience.
Let’s hope I did not get taken advantage of.
Below are some of the communications.
This is their reply when I first inquired about delivery…
From: Palmyra [mailto:palmyrami@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 5:31 AM
To: Roni Zulu
Subject: Re: E Comm: Sukar Ouds 212 with hardcase
Dear, customer:
The postal service is Syria post office and the schedule delivery to California is three weeks. About damage we assure you dear you will come in
perfect condition and if you have any problem with it we would fix it right away
We sold many oud from Syria to professional players and they are happy with them
Thanks for asking
Best regards
palmyrami
They received my payment…
From: Palmyra [mailto:palmyrami@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 1:12 AM
To: Roni Zulu
Subject: Re: E Comm: Sukar Ouds 212 with hardcase
Dear, customer:
we have received the payment and we would ship it and would provide you the tracking number ASAP
We would pack it very well to prevent it from any damage through shipping and we hope that you would be happy with your purchase
Best regards
No tracking number was sent so I contacted them….
On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Roni Zulu <zulu@zulutattoo.com> wrote:
Palmyrami,
I paid for oud September 29, I have not received a tracking number.
Please send tracking number.
Thank You.
The company could not answer my questions so they contacted the owner/s…
From: Palmyra [mailto:palmyrami@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 2:49 AM
To: Roni Zulu
Cc: M Sukkar; Samer Succar
Subject: Re: E Comm: Sukar Ouds 212 with hardcase
Dear, Msalam:
please answer the below email.This buyer who bought Sukkar oud since September 29.
Kindly contact him and advise me
Thanks
palmyrami
More empty promises from the owner….
From: Palmyra [mailto:palmyrami@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 8:29 AM
To: Roni Zulu
Cc: M Sukkar; Samer Succar
Subject: Re: E Comm: Sukar Ouds 212 with hardcase
Dear Roni,
Thanks so much for your order and your trust in us, We are doing our best to meet your expectation in us.
Lead time is usually 3 weeks but Sukkar has delayed your order this time, He took more than usual to produce the oud.
It usually takes one week to produce the oud the oud and 2 weeks for shipping.
According to M.R Sukkar your oud should be ready in the next 7 days max , lead time for shipping is 10 to 14 days so we are talking about 20 days for
the oud to arrive to you.
Another option I have many of Sukkar ouds coming to MI by sea and should be in our warehouse in MI in 5 days or so.
As for now, the options are either we wait for 5 days till your oud is ready which will take 16 to 20 days or We will ship you one from MI if the
container arrives to MI sooner.
If you cant wait any longer We will fully refund your money.
Again We are very sorry about this unusual delay but please understand that this is really behind our control.
Regards,
Msalam
Finally a tracking Number…
On Nov 10, 2010, at 2:03 AM, Palmyra <palmyrami@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear, customer:
Actually I do not know what can i say about this delay, we are apologizing many times and you have aright to get anger. As we told you dear this is
out of our control, the problem is from manufacturer to send us the oud.
However dear finally we shipped the oud and here is the tracking number :CP100251899SY
you can track it at : http://www.syrianpost.gov.sy/
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ExtreamTarab
Oud Junkie
Posts: 185
Registered: 8-31-2006
Location: Montreal, Canada
Member Is Offline
Mood: ...Lessa Faker...
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I just hate it when these people always throw the blame on Mr. Sukar, I have always dealt with him and you can never get an oud in a week...
Anyways, hope everything comes to a good end and you get your oud and enjoy playing it
Regards,
Ibrahim
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teslim
Oud Junkie
Posts: 106
Registered: 9-12-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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sukar oud
i had a very similar experience.my oud took almost 3 months to arrive just when I was beginning to give up.so my advice is to be patient..i never got
a clear answer on shipping date and method through countless emails...but low and behold . it showed up safe and sound.. was just slow postal
service..
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zakiya_alali
Oud Junkie
Posts: 409
Registered: 10-4-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: Jameel Bashir is a Legand
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carry on waiting my friend untill it arrives! that if ofcourse if ir does arrive!
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Franck
Oud Junkie
Posts: 145
Registered: 8-21-2007
Location: Montréal, Québec
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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You'll have to insist on getting compensation for this, I ordered an oud case a while ago and it arrived with two broken hinges, it ended with a
settlement and they sent me a large dumbek as compensation. Don't give up and good luck!
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Stringish
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Zulu,
I doubt that Palmyrami is deliberately trying to rip you off. While not everyone has had positive experiences with them, so far it seems like they
are more or less legit, although possibly poor businessmen and poorly organized. I don't personally have any experience with them, and don't have any
connection to them, so the following is just a guess (although based on my experiences dealing with others shipping from Syria).
To me, what seems likely is this:
They took an order for an oud that they don't have on hand. There are many reasons why this might have happened, but it was a bad idea (IMO).
They are getting shipments from Syria. It is my understanding that the way they are able to keep prices low is to fill a large shipping container and
ship by sea. So, Sukar has probably already given them the oud, they just don't (or didn't) have enough stuff to fill the shipping container yet, so
it had to wait until they do (or did).
There are many reasons why a shipping container, especially one from Syria, might be delayed upon arriving in the U.S. This is somewhat out of their
control.
It's not exactly "slow postal service". A lot more transparency about how they are operating would go a long way towards creating trust. They should
only advertise ouds that they already have in the country, or offer particular discounts with the understanding that delivery could take several
months.
They should offer you a refund, but my guess is that the oud will arrive eventually.
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Zulu
Oud Junkie
Posts: 149
Registered: 6-21-2004
Location: Austin, Texas
Member Is Offline
Mood: I'm in the m'Oud for Love!
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Thanks Brian,I was hoping that was the case.
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Zulu
Oud Junkie
Posts: 149
Registered: 6-21-2004
Location: Austin, Texas
Member Is Offline
Mood: I'm in the m'Oud for Love!
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I was told today that the oud is still at the Syrian Post Office... after waiting
three months; WTF!!!!!
Palmyrami gave me two choices...
1)Wait for the 212 to be sent from Syria without any idea of estimated delivery time.
or
2)They have no model 212 in stock but they do have a Sukar model 13 in their Michigan warehouse and would send it right away with an estimated
delivery time of 6 days.
Lesson #1 learned so far dealing with Palmyrami...
If you are in the U.S., first find out if the oud you want is in their Michigan warehouse...otherwise be prepared to wait 3 or more months for
delivery with no real answer of what is going on or when you'll get your oud.
At this point I just want to make sure I get a quality Sukar oud and told them to send the model 13.
I hope I have good news to report in a week.
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ExtreamTarab
Oud Junkie
Posts: 185
Registered: 8-31-2006
Location: Montreal, Canada
Member Is Offline
Mood: ...Lessa Faker...
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Hey Zulu,
I think this is the oud you'll be getting...
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-DRAK-OILY-WALNUT-WOOD-SUKAR-OUD-HARD-CASE-M...
That's a nice one, hope you get it soon 
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Zulu
Oud Junkie
Posts: 149
Registered: 6-21-2004
Location: Austin, Texas
Member Is Offline
Mood: I'm in the m'Oud for Love!
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The Sukar model 13 arrived today and I am very happy with it. 
I originally ordered the model 212 which cost $675; the model 13 costs $827 (I have seen these go for much more from other retailers, not that cost is
everything but Palmyrami does have the lowest prices)
Palmyrami did not charge me the $152 difference due to the lengthy delays.
I prefer the 13 over the 212 because I like the darker wood used for the soundboard and the inlay work throughout the oud.
Though very frustrating, the purchasing experience ended well in my favor. I believe Palmyrami is a good company with great customer service, they
would do better to inform buyers of delays if item is not in local stock.
Delivery:
The box arrived with a section cut open, I imagine done buy customs...no damage.
The contents are wrapped in a very thick foam; removing the foam was the case wrapped in thick bubble wrap.
The back of the neck was braced with cardboard; very well done and appreciated!!!
The hardcase was just as I expected from other reviews...very scratched and the hardware is cheap; fine for car travel but not for airport gorilla
baggage handlers!
The oud is in perfect condition.
Final review...
I would buy from them again now knowing what to expect and what questions to ask before purchasing.
Check out the pictures while I go restring this bad boy!!!
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abusin
Oud Junkie
Posts: 442
Registered: 3-23-2006
Location: Manchester England
Member Is Offline
Mood: Ya Fuadi La Tasal
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Hi Zulu,
Phew Congrats my friend, thats a beautiful oud you got there buddy. Play it in
good health
from previous users deals with these merchants there was always a happy ending 
I hope people would find out more details about the shipping arangements in advance, it would just help them to know what to expect and how long it
may take before they get their prize.
You can now enjoy Xmas in style
Best Regards
Awad
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bulerias1981
Oud Junkie
Posts: 763
Registered: 4-26-2009
Location: Beacon, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: John Vergara Luthier Lord of the Strings instrument making and repair
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Congratulations on the new oud! Its a nice one, and definitely great for the price. I personally like Sukkar ouds. Usually I feel they may need some
tweaking sometimes. Changing the strings to a good set, lowering the nut, or changing it out with bone, and changing or better fitting the pegs, and
you've got a great oud.
Sorry for the frustration you went through. I sent documents to a university I was studying at in Lebanon through the post service, and I flew to
Lebanon 3 weeks later, and the school never got them. It was a problem because it was transcripts, and due to this reason I wasn't able to enter the
program I applied for!! The documents did show up 3 months later if you could imagine. Then on top of it, I've dealt with the general security there
to get my visa extended, and that was a NIGHTMARE. Anything to do with public services like that in which requires organization is a mess in the
middle-east, and I don't even think they make a secret of it. You have to love the middle-east for all its beauty and chaos in organization at the
same time!
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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Zulu, Mabruk! How have you been? So you finally got a Sukar! First one?
Better not to touch the nut. Mr Sukar has a specific way of doing the nuts in wood, and they work well. He deliberately avoids bone nuts. There are
things you can consider improving on a Sukar, but I would leave the nut alone unless it's damaged.
What wood is the soundboard made of? How many pieces? I have played a lot of Sukars, but never one with such a dark soundboard. Is the soundboard
surface virgin/sanded wood, or coated/stained with something? How are the inlays on the soundboard done, with what materials, and to what depth? And
the ones on the bowl? What are the pegs like? Scale length?
What is the fingerboard made of, and since it stops before the soundhole, is it "set in" all the way through the soundboard (can you see the darker
wood from within with a little mirror) ? Was the soundboard "cut out" in the shape of the fingerboard, or built up around it? Can you post some
extreme close-ups? I have often wondered how these round sound-hole ones were built, it's a different design from his classical oval-holed ones. And
with the dark soundboard, you have an unusual one for sure.
On a Sukar tuned "normally", i.e. to high cc, the top 2 courses do sound very good in PVF (and if you tune to high ff, the top 3 courses). PVF is more
dense than nylon, and sounds a lot more like the wound strings, so you use slightly thinner plain strings than nylon ones, and with the harder
material you don't have the dis-contiguity of a zingy bottom and a wimpy top. Musicaravan sells a set of PVF trebles
http://www.musicaravan.com/strings
they may seem expensive, but they last a long time.
BTW, these PVFs are strong/loud enough to be used as plain strings on "lautenwerke" which are harpsichords strung with lute type strings (plucked with
tiny plectra of the same Delrin/Acetal that our glossy black rishas are made of)
Apparently J.S. Bach owned a couple of these instruments, though not necessarily in that (amazing) shape.
http://www.baroquemusic.org/barluthp.html
Once they fully stretch, which takes a while, PVF plains are more stable than nylon with humidity and other changes.
If you are aiming for the short percussive "longing" old Egyptian sound, then set the Sukar's action high, and then the more muted Nylon plain strings
arguably might sound more "appropriate" -- but I sure like them PVF trebles!
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Alan-TX
Oud Junkie
Posts: 118
Registered: 2-18-2008
Member Is Offline
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Grats on the new oud. It looks very nice. I have a Sukar Model 1 that was my beginner Oud. It has stood up to the test of time. I changed the nut out
for a bone nut as the nut it shipped with with was made of soft wood and did not allow for fine tuning.
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Zulu
Oud Junkie
Posts: 149
Registered: 6-21-2004
Location: Austin, Texas
Member Is Offline
Mood: I'm in the m'Oud for Love!
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Good to hear from you Fernand,
Yes, finally got my first Sukar and I couldn't be more pleased!
Finding info on this model is not easy; the info given is the typical colorful bazaar descriptions with stating only walnut and zan wood in the
material description.
Scale length is 600 mm, which I'm very happy about.
Soundboard appears to be 4 piece; I have no idea what the soundboard wood is.
This is the natural color of the soundboard, it came virgin sanded, it is not stained. I did apply a thin layer of shellac and buffed it down with
super fine steel wool to a satin finish.
Not sure of the neck wood, it is a very dark olive green-ish brown. I gave it a few coats of Tru-Oil and buffed it down.
All inlay work throughout the instrument is done very well; flush with no gaps between the varied woods.
Soundhole inlay has me guessing; it is charcoal black and seems porous like stone or bone, can't tell if it is wood or not.
Pegs are ebony with mother of pearl inlays.
The wood nut sticks a bit when fine tuning but not enough to bother me; I'm not gonna mess with it. I've heard some graphite in the grooves can
help?
I'll find a small mirror and get back to you on the fingerboard and body configuration.
If anyone has any info on the materials used on this oud please pass it on to me, Thanks!
I'm glad you mentioned the PVF; the nylons sounded very flat compared to the rounds, I put an order in to swap them...THANKS
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Zulu
Oud Junkie
Posts: 149
Registered: 6-21-2004
Location: Austin, Texas
Member Is Offline
Mood: I'm in the m'Oud for Love!
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PVF Tebles
A bit off buy/sell oud topic but it is part of the above discussion...
I got my PVF trebles from Musicaravan and they sound so much better than the nylons.
They are very very elastic though, even though I pull them side to side daily it seems like it will take some time to stretch but I'm OK with that;
I've heard they will outlast a few changes of the lower wound courses.
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ameer
Oud Junkie
Posts: 458
Registered: 9-14-2009
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Would you mind making a recording at some point? I have yet to hear PVFs in action.
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billverhouse
Oud Admirer
Posts: 2
Registered: 1-12-2011
Location: Richmond, Indiana
Member Is Offline
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Hi folks,
Has anyone had any experience with Palmyrami in person? Been to their store in Royal Oak? Do they usually have a fair number of instruments in stock?
I'm just getting started, and currently have only a cheap practice instrument from Mid-East, and am looking to upgrade to something a bit more
sonorous as I improve my skills. I've read good things about Sukars here and elsewhere, and notice that Palmyrami also carries a number of Khalifas.
I'd love to have a Sukar oud to continue learning on. I live close enough to Detroit that a day trip to visit the store is within reason, but was
wondering if anyone else has done this and seen their ouds and other wares in person. A day trip to buy an oud in person after having been able to try
it out and then bring it home in the car rather than shipping it would be worth it.
Thoughts? Advice?
Thanks in advance,
Bill
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permanentnovice
Oud Lover
Posts: 20
Registered: 10-27-2011
Member Is Offline
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Hey guys,
I just found this thread after purchasing a sukar 212 from Palmyrami on ebay. I thought I got a killer deal ($400) but when the oud came I'm
concerned it might not be a fake. The picture of the Palmyrami Model 212 doesn't match the Sukar's website Model 212 - the sound holes are in the
wrong place. My strings buzz, and I can't raise the action (the wing nut falls off if I try)
I posted a thread about it here and I am looking for some good guidance before I take Palmyrami to the eBay police and get my money back. Any advice
or words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=12516#pid85...
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