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Terry Sleeper
Oud Maniac
Posts: 53
Registered: 11-15-2010
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Setting-up my newly-acquired oud.
I am now the proud owner of this 4yr. old Michael Moussa oud:
Iraqi Munir Bashir-style, floating bridge, 62 cm scale-length (nut to bridge), soundboard - spruce (I think), back - rare zebrano wood.
I intend to tune it (low to high) F-AA-DD-gg-cc-ff.
Given the above specs:
1. What make / gauge of strings should I use?
2. Is there a diagram / vid on the Net explaining which string attaches to which peghead - it certainly does not appear to be like that of a 12-string
guitar. One picture would be worth a hyundred words of explanation.
As a guitar-player I appreciate the importance of getting these things right so as to get the best out of the instrument - oh, and not running the
risk of damaging it too!
Any advice is welcome.
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Danielo
Oud Junkie
Posts: 365
Registered: 7-17-2008
Location: Paris
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Hi Terry,
I cannot help you really for question 1) as I use only fixed bridge ouds, that have different preferences.
You can try those (cheap and good on a fixed bridge oud).
http://ostriemusicsupplies.com/marioud-ar.htm
You need to ordrer the set for Arabic tuning + a ff pair of treble strings (of course you won't use the low C string of the set). The tension of these
strings is quite low, so you may or may not like the sound but you won't damage the oud.
Abour question 2), see here :
http://www.oudcafe.com/stringing_and_tuning.htm
the picture is for C-FF-AA-DD-cc but of course with your tuning you can use the same.
I advise you to wind carefully the strings on the pegs, in order to avoid string crossing
in the pegbox.
Check also that the mobile bridge is at its exact place; the total string length
from the nut to the bridge should be three times the length of the fingerboard from the nut to the neck joint,
Good luck !
Dan
Dan
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Terry Sleeper
Oud Maniac
Posts: 53
Registered: 11-15-2010
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Thanks Danielo.
In addition to the above advice, these web pp are helpful too:
Which strings to attach to which peg:
http://www.oud.eclipse.co.uk/stringing.html
A guitarist's guide to the oud - basic and useful for guitar player's who are taking the plunge:
http://www.dglenn.org/chords/oud-for-guitarists.html
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Sazi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 786
Registered: 9-17-2007
Location: Behind my oud
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Mood: مبتهج ; ))
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Hi Terry, congrats on the start of your oud collection
For the benefit of yourself and others who may look at this thread for information, pretty much everything anyone needs to know about Oud is here in
the forum.
The FAQ's thread... READ THIS FIRST!
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=6809
If you really have to do it the hard way... There is a <Search> button in the top left corner of these very pages, it is more useful if you
actually use it!
For instance a search on <Strings 62cm> reveals no less than 15 threads, and for <Stringing diagram> a dozen, with hundreds of responses,
including all the diagram links.
Again, if you read the FAQ thread you probably wouldn't need to search.
Have fun.
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Terry Sleeper
Oud Maniac
Posts: 53
Registered: 11-15-2010
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Point taken, Sazi.
All I would add is that the advice given in various places on this and other forums in respect of tuning, stringing, and so on differs markedly. It
is that which is confusing to the uninitiated.
Thank you for your advice.
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Sazi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 786
Registered: 9-17-2007
Location: Behind my oud
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Mood: مبتهج ; ))
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Sorry, didn't mean to sound abrupt or make a point, just to present the most useful information for the benefit of all, something like <give a man
a fish and he eats for a day, teach him how to fish and he can eat every day>
It sure does differ markedly, and as each person has different ideas about what good/tight/loose tension is or what the ideal string height is at the
neck joint etc., combined with the fact that each and every oud is unique and often has it's own ideas about which risha or strings sound and feel the
best, then all up you're still going to spend quite a bit of time and money experimenting with tunings/tensions/rishas etc. to discover what works for
you on that particular oud.
Enjoy the journey.
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
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Maybe give the La Bella a try.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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Terry Sleeper
Oud Maniac
Posts: 53
Registered: 11-15-2010
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You're right, Sazi - it's the same with the guitar, as I know from years of playing. The only really big difference between the 2 instruments is
that, with very few exceptions, guitar-tunig is standardised (low to high E-A-D-G-B-E). There are other tunings (for example, for slide-guitar) but
they are pretty rare. This is not the case with the oud - given the instrument's ancient lineage it would be amazing if it were! As you know, many
many oud tunings abound and look as if they are here to stay. This is a huge, if singular, big difference for a guitar-player to get his head around
(the lack of frets on the oud pales in comparion, I think).
That said, without the assistance from members of this forum (yourself included - and Aymara, too - see comment below) I'm pretty certain I would have
been seriously considering whether to pick up an oud at all by now. It's an interesting point: even allowing for the fact that nothing will ever
put-off the really serious enquirer, how many potential oud-players have given up the instrument before they ever really got started on it? Makes you
think.
Aymara - that link for the strings is bang-on the money. Thank you for your help.
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
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A few weeks ago I argued the same and had to learn recently, that I was wrong. Nowadays many guitarists use drop down tunings in D and even C ... the
later mainly in Heavy Metal. You'll even find strings for drop tunings ... and guess what ... you also can buy so called Baritone guitars optimized
for these tunings.
Times are changing 
Have fun with the new strings 
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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Terry Sleeper
Oud Maniac
Posts: 53
Registered: 11-15-2010
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Quote: Originally posted by Aymara  |
A few weeks ago I argued the same and had to learn recently, that I was wrong. Nowadays many guitarists use drop down tunings in D and even C ... the
later mainly in Heavy Metal. You'll even find strings for drop tunings ... and guess what ... you also can buy so called Baritone guitars optimized
for these tunings.
Times are changing
Have fun with the new strings |
. . . and there are tenor guitars (with 4 strings); musicians as famous as Keith Richards of the Stones whose idiosyncratic tuning has baffled many
an aspiring rocker attempting to reproduce his licks; folk virtuoso Martin Carthy, whose fingering patterns betray a strange tuning-pattern; and so
on.
The point I was making is that the numbers of guitar-players who as a matter of course (no pun intended) tune their instruments other than E-A-D-G-B-E
are statistically insignificant. Judging from what I have found out so far, that could never be said about oud players!
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Kelly
Oud Junkie
Posts: 285
Registered: 1-30-2007
Location: Manchester, UK
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Hi Terry
Welcome and best wishes with your new oud. As Chris,Sazi and Dan have pointed out you will find by process of your own discovery which strings suit
that particular oud. However generally with floating bridge ouds higher tension strings help move the sound board- bit like arch top guitars. Try Mari
strings but you might find them a bit on the light side whereas Pyramid and Aquilas may be better suited tension wise.
Have fun!
Kelly
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Terry Sleeper
Oud Maniac
Posts: 53
Registered: 11-15-2010
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Thanks, Kelly.
Just hit on this thread on these forums - "The History of the Floating Bridge":
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=10069
Fabulous stuff. As a history graduate (mostly medieval), this is engrossing material.
What a knowledgeable lot contributors to these forums are!
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Ararat66
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1025
Registered: 11-14-2005
Location: Portsmouth, UK
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Mood: mellow yellow
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Hello Terry
Where are you in the UK? there's quite a few of us around - Kelly and a number of others are around Manchester and Yorkshire, in fact I was at Kelly's
this Friday but all the way from Portsmouth myself .. and there are many others in between.
I also came to oud from guitar, and the main difference in terms of getting to know the oud for me, wasn't tuning or even no frets, but has been the
'oudiness' of the oud. Sounds daft but what I mean is that it may take a while before you stop sounding like a guitarist playing oud - they are very
very different instruments.
What you will find though is your fingers are probably already flying so then I would suggest you listen to loads and loads of oud players to get the
feel and range of tones plus the grooves and rhythms that this instrument inspires. Of course practice loads but really listen well untill you can
feel the music in your hands.
The tunings are nowhere near as wide or as way out as the guitar to be honest if you think of the sheer range and complexity of many fingerstyle
guitar tunings and say Nashville tuning etc - the oud tends to stay for the most part within a more steady range based around the highest 4 strings
tuned to BEAD (Turkish/Armenian/Greek style ouds) or a tone down at ADGC (Arabic ouds), and some Iraqi tuning which add a high F above. The changes
are usually in the two lower courses, so it isn't too complicated really (says me who can barely start to read music )) ... but you get the gist.
Anyway Terry, welcome to this brilliant forum and to the wonderful and utterly magical instrument that is the oud.
Cheers
Leon
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
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| Quote: Originally posted by Terry Sleeper | | The point I was making is that the numbers of guitar-players who as a matter of course (no pun intended) tune their instruments other than E-A-D-G-B-E
are statistically insignificant. |
I thought so too, but the last weeks I found out in several guitar forums world wide, that times changed ... their number is more significant as you
believe. It seems, more than 50% of todays young Rock guitarists use drop tunings. They do so, because their idols do it, e.g. Zakk Wylde (ex Ozzy
Osbourne band).
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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Terry Sleeper
Oud Maniac
Posts: 53
Registered: 11-15-2010
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Well . . . I've just discovered that attempting to re-string an oud (with Mari strings) is an "interesting" way to spend a couple of hours.
FF-AA-DD-gg-cc-ff is what I was aiming for. However, there is no way that the 12th string (one of the low F's) will reach the necessary peg (it's a
half-inch short, at least); and the 11th string only JUST stretched to the required peg - and then came off and will not go back on. Looks like it's
AA-DD-gg-cc-ff, then.
As someone who has never had any problems whatsoever in stringing-up guitars hundreds of times over may years, I have to confess that the thought of
having to re-string an oud regularly fills me with foreboding. Hard work.
I'm going to bed now!
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ameer
Oud Junkie
Posts: 458
Registered: 9-14-2009
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Consider getting single replacement strings from Jameel at http://khalafoud.com/daddario.htm
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Terry Sleeper
Oud Maniac
Posts: 53
Registered: 11-15-2010
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Thanks, Ameer.
I think the problem is that the Daniel Mari strings which I have are made for a fixed-bridge oud and not an oud with a floating bridge - the lower
strings are simply not long enough - they will NOT reach from the end of the oud to the requisite pegs. Damn!
So (deep breath): can anyone please advise which manufacturer makes strings which ARE long enough for an oud with a floating bridge?
I am not really bothered about the tuning any more - believe it or not. I just want to get the oud strung!
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Kelly
Oud Junkie
Posts: 285
Registered: 1-30-2007
Location: Manchester, UK
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Hi Terry
Sorry that your Mari Strings dont stretch- yeah, you have to account for the extra length below the bridge to the tail block.
Can you use the old FF strrings for now?- many players start with 5 courses as it makes learning the main melody strings easier -bass string can be
introduced later. its common just to use one F so choose the shortest . If you know the gauge in mm or thou inch (probably 0.034-36) you can use a
single wound nylon guitar ( = A string approx). many players mix and match to suit their particular instrument and playing style.
Try Jameel for advice and strings quote total string legth and tuning: -his prices are very reasonable and great service from over the pond.
If you are in striking distance to Manchester and got snow shoes drop us a line and call over.
Regards
Kelly
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
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If you're located in the USA, ask Jameel. If you're in Europe, ask Matthias.
Both are members of the forums and can definitely help you to get good strings that fit.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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Terry Sleeper
Oud Maniac
Posts: 53
Registered: 11-15-2010
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Still trying to string the oud after the Xmas / New Year break.
Usual problems - strings slipping, popping out of the bottom end of the instrument, no way will the 11th string reach the requisite peg (hence
improvisation called for), and so on.
If I'd have had a swear box in my living-room it would have been full to overflowing by now.
But I am a patient man. 40 years of guitar playing have made me patient.
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Terry Sleeper
Oud Maniac
Posts: 53
Registered: 11-15-2010
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Well, it's taken over a month - allowing, of course for the Xmas / New Year break - but I finally got the oud strung (CFFAADDggcc) and tuned.
Can't play a bloody thing on it, of course, but I'm falling in love with the tone. As with a little CF Martin guitar, I keep wanting to peep inside
the soundbox and see what magic is giving such a BIG sound. But I know that it's down to materials and workmanship.
Mr. Moussa certainly knows his onions!
Now all I have to do is learn how to play it.
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
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Well being a guitarist and bassist before I learned oud, I thought: "Well, three courses are like on guitar AAddgg." And I started with that,
concentrating to get a feel for the fretless fingerboard first.
Maybe that's make sense for you too as a first step.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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Terry Sleeper
Oud Maniac
Posts: 53
Registered: 11-15-2010
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http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=9565#pid790...
I am drawing encouragement from the above thread.
Call it wimping-out, but I think my oud-playing future resides with tuning the instrument like a (12-string) guitar.
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
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Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
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Try CEEAAddggcc first ... it's a good compromise.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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Terry Sleeper
Oud Maniac
Posts: 53
Registered: 11-15-2010
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Thanks, Aymara, but now I have CCFFBbBbEbEbggcc I am finding my way around the instrument nicely. I feel like a bit of a cheat, but since there is no
real "standard" tuning of ouds anyway I can live with it.
It's good having two low "CC"s - why waste a peg? - but I am finding that the 12th string keeps slipping out of the saddle on the floating bridge. Is
there some sort of remedy for this (apart from not bashing the strings too hard)? Or is it a price one has to pay for being greedy and wanting a 12th
string? Any advice would be welcome.
The CCs and FFs do rattle a little too. Again, it may be my heavy-handedness, but if there is a way of stopping this from happening I'd be obliged if
anyone could let me know. (Perhaps different tension strings?).
But - and I hope that this heretical practice won't get me chucked of the Forum - I am finding that it is easier, much easier, to use a BIG guitar
plectrum rather than a risha. The risha I have is very flimsy, so perhaps I need to grab a bag of ones with varying degrees of firmness and persist
until I find one that suits me. But, to be honest, at this point in time I can't see me abandoning a plectrum any more than I can forsee using
anything other than a "guitar" tuning for the strings.
Wedged in the airmchair with my oud, I am getting to love it - the tone, the 1/4 notes, the constant surpises it offers as I skid and fumble around
the fingerboard. And when I'm not playing it I prop it up in the spare armchair and just look at it.
It must be love.
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