myeyes2020
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Maqam Ushaq Musri (exclusively Egyptian)
There was a discussion about wether exclusively Egyptian Maqamat exist. Ushaq Masri and at least one more from the nahawand family are exclusively
Egyptian.
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=8852&pa...
The word "masri" means Egyptian and it was explained by Simon Shaheen that Ushaq Masri was developed in an Egyptian town called Tanta.
Maqam Ushaq Masri = D E F G A B-half-flat C D
= jins Nahawand-RE and jins Bayati-La
Dominant = Sol
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spyros mesogeia
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Interesting my friend,
Can you please explain the behavior-development of the makam,and how does it sound?
Also what are the alterations that makes it so unique?Are you sure that is not in Byzntine modes or in Turkish Makams also?
Any details about the Tetrachords and the pentachords of this makam?
Maybe the other brothers here could help us.
Happy new year to all of you.
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David.B
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`Ushaq Masri
D E F G A Bb c d
or
D E F G A B-b- c d
Source : ARAB MUSIC THEORY IN THE MODERN PERIOD p.842
Maqam Ushaq Masri
Busalik on D Tetrachord
Ajam on G Trichord
Bayati on A Tetrachord
D E F G A B half-flat C D
1 tone 1/2 tone 1 tone 1 tone 3/4 tone 3/4 tone 1 tone
In the Busalik tetrachord, the tuning of the third note (F) is lower than the similar Nahawand tetrachord. The difference in tuning is about 1/9th of
a tone (called koma in Turkish msuic).
Two interpretations of the maqam :
Abdelwahab: Aheb Achoufak
Simon Shaheen: Dawn oud taqsim
Source : http://www.maqamworld.com/maqamat/nahawand.html
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David.B
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Happy holidays to you Adel, Spyros and all of you 
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spyros mesogeia
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Thank you David,I know both sources....
I just wnted to hear a sample.....You know,just to understand as a ''student'' to this makam,sounding speaking....
I know both of the recordings.
What I want to say is that maybe it is not a 100 % egyptian makam,probably is known there,but,maybe there are also and other
countries,coultures-regions that share the same mode[makam].
Warmest Regards
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spyros mesogeia
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David my friend,
I think that the same Makam exists at least on the 3 Regions,maybe and much more.
Egipt,Turkey,Greece,and maybe more....
The Ussak on Asia Minor music is a very common makam,that is why I talked about the behaviour of this certain makam from Egypt...
Anyway,it's a very interesting thing to share all these details.For me is also a very nice post because as a teacher on oud I want to continue my
research as more as possible.
Warmest Regards for a peaceful New year
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David.B
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I needed to go outside but I'm back behind my computer...
Quote: Originally posted by spyros mesogeia  | David my friend,
I think that the same Makam exists at least on the 3 Regions,maybe and much more.
Egipt,Turkey,Greece,and maybe more....
The Ussak on Asia Minor music is a very common makam,that is why I talked about the behaviour of this certain makam from Egypt...
Anyway,it's a very interesting thing to share all these details.For me is also a very nice post because as a teacher on oud I want to continue my
research as more as possible.
Warmest Regards for a peaceful New year |
That's about where my thoughts took me when I was in my car.
To me "`Ushaq Masri" is more a generic term to talk about a variation of a specific mode. As you said Adel, if "Masri" means Egyptian this means a
non-Egyptian or a scientific (probably theorists) gave this "label" in order to distinguish it from `Ushaq of the Turks for example.
One stupid example : "French fries" are from Belgium in French minds...
So as you wrote it Spyros, we need a traditional sample or/and Simon Shaheen's full explanation to get something more substantial.
Did anyone check out Meshaka's work ? It's a bit fastidious to convert numbers into notes from Smith's board but there might be some clue in "Melodies
keyed on Dugah".
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spyros mesogeia
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David is always a pleasure to discuss with you,maybe we can chat sometime on skype and play some together.
Warmest Regards from Washington DC
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myeyes2020
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Wow Thanks for the interest guys!
We analyzed this maqam at the Arabic music retreat. It was not within the scope of Simon Shaheen's presentation to dicuss the origen or history of
the maqam. A student asked why is it called masri and it was a short reply of "because it originated in Egypt in a town called Tanta." He said this
in passing and with his usual smiling almost joking demeanor. I, being a proud Egyptian, took it seriously and continue to pay attention and study
this maqam.
I find it very interesting that "Egyptian" for this maqam's name is often pronounced and transliterated "musri" and not "misri" (Standard Arabic).
"musri" is coliquial Egyptian or the Egyptian dialect of Arabic. This highly (but not definitly) suggests that it was named by an Egyptian vs
non-Egyptian.
It's scale can be defined as follows:
Primary ajnas
ascending: jins nahawand re + jins bayat la
descending : jins nahawand re + jins kurd la.
secondary upper ajans
Rast sol (ascending)
Nahawand sol (descending)
other possibilities for modulation are:
ascending: jins kurd-mi, siga-si
descending:jins ajam-fa
As David noted, the lower jins of the ascending may be refered to as buselic-re to distinguish it from the nahawand-re because fa is played slightly
flatter. This maqam (like bayati), because it has many associated ajnas, makes it very easy to modulate to many othe ajnas like bayati re, kurd re,
saba re and saba la, ajam fa.
It's melodic development is introduced in the upper jins bayat-la. From there, one may modulate to Rast-sol, or nahawand-sol and then quickly return
to bayat-la. Continue to ascend to the "next octave" to develop Jins Nahawand-re (buselik?). I'm not sure if the maqam repeats or if this is an
ambitus as David likes to use in analysis. The melody will continue to descend through Nahawand-Sol to close at Lower jins Nahawand Re.
A very interesting song that illustrates this melodic development is a song by Yusef Al-Manyalawi called "La Tahsibu anna Mayli Baynakum Taraban."
It means "Don't assume that I joyfully interact among you." If anyone can tranlate this better, please feel free. I'm not sure how to translate
"mayli." Here is the song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOi4K2Xf7aI
David, You are right! The Dawr Aheb Ashooufak kul yom (I'd like to see every day) by Abdel Wahab is a good example of the use of this maqam.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZVcJUz4WQw
I'm aware that this maqam was introduced by Egyptians to the Cairo Congress of Arab Music in 1932. I did not intend to use "exclusively Egytpian" to
mean "used only in Egypt and forbiden elswhere." The use of this maqam outside of Egypt does not take away that it's origen is Egypt. If this maqam
was used elswhere (I'm not doubting it was), I would love to hear a sample, hopefully on youtube and also would be interested to know what other
cultures called this maqam
Spyros and David, thank you so much for your contribution and Happy New Year to you both and to all memebers of this forum!
Adel Ibrahim
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spyros mesogeia
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To me it's a normal Ussak....there are more than 10 Greek songs that have this behaviour from Asia Minor....and they are atleast 300 years old....
The most common is Tis Triantafilias ta fila,you can hear the alterations by Yasemi Saragouda.....
Anyway,it's good to share these experiences....
Also in Byzantine modes is something very common.....At least from what I heard on the youtube samples......
Happy New Year everybody
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David.B
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Thanks for your last comment Adel, it will be helpful when I'll studying the mode carefully, really interesting...
Spyros, I'm not so found of Skype or live messengers. But the invitation touches me and I hope I'll be able to discuss and play with you in front of
good cup of black coffee or sweet tea, some day. Music for the soul, friendship for the heart and coffee for my nerves 
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spyros mesogeia
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myeyes2020
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| Quote: Originally posted by spyros mesogeia | To me it's a normal Ussak....there are more than 10 Greek songs that have this behaviour from Asia Minor....and they are atleast 300 years old....
The most common is Tis Triantafilias ta fila,you can hear the alterations by Yasemi Saragouda.....
Anyway,it's good to share these experiences....
Also in Byzantine modes is something very common.....At least from what I heard on the youtube samples......
Happy New Year everybody |
Hello Spyros,
I had difficulty finding the Greek song and samples of Byzantine music that you heard on youtube.
Would you be so kind as to provide links to the 10 Greek songs and samples of Byzantine music that you heard on youtube which use ushshaq musri and
its "behavior" that I described above?
I would like to add those links to my notes and share them with my students.
Thanks,
Adel
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spyros mesogeia
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Dear friend Adel,
Not everything is on youtube my friend,
You can find many CD's to buy with those things,That is what I teach also, my friend,Things that I learned from my teachers and from the Byzantine
music.I am sure that you will find some on the internet.If not, you are always welcome to come and visit me to show them to you.After all, this is
what I do for more than 7 years ,and I do it now with the recognition of the University of Tulsa USA,and with all my other Musical Degrees from
Greece.
Diamonds are not easy to find brother,but learning never stops.
Happy New Year,talk to you soon
Spyros
P.S.Simon Saheen was last week in Greece to perform with Alekos Vretos[one of my best friends and Simon's Student].He send me some videosof those
concerts,that I might share.
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myeyes2020
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| Quote: Originally posted by spyros mesogeia |
Anyway,it's good to share these experiences....
Also in Byzantine modes is something very common.....At least from what I heard on the youtube samples......
|
I'm aware that not everything can be found on youtube. I did my best to find Byzantine music with Ushshaq Musri with no success. Being that you
personally heard these on youtube and are confident that they are easy to find, would you please provide the link to these very common Byzantine
samples of Ushshaq Musri and its "behavior."
Also, I tried hard to find "Tis Triantafilias ta fila." How do you write this in Greek? On what CD can you find this?
What are the names of the other 10 songs and on what CD's can they be found. I would like to buy them so that I can analyze them.
These recordings would completely change my impression of Ushshaq Musri and how I present the topic to my students.
Thanks in advance for your help and contribution.
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spyros mesogeia
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Dear Adel,
I was talking for the samples that you were talking about ,on youtube....you wrote:
''''''''A very interesting song that illustrates this melodic development is a song by Yusef Al-Manyalawi called "La Tahsibu anna Mayli Baynakum
Taraban." It means "Don't assume that I joyfully interact among you." If anyone can tranlate this better, please feel free. I'm not sure how to
translate "mayli." Here is the song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOi4K2Xf7aI
David, You are right! The Dawr Aheb Ashooufak kul yom (I'd like to see every day) by Abdel Wahab is a good example of the use of this maqam.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZVcJUz4WQw '''''''
Dear friend Adel,
as I told you,you have to search,and sometimes to search and to other sources except the youtube. Whenever you wish it will be my pleasure to show
them to you and than you can show them to your students also my friend,we both live in the same region,it's not far for you or your students.And you
know it's always a pleasure for me to show to all my friends new things on the oud.
That is my job officially my friend.To play and to teach the oud,the instrument that we all do love in this forum.
Warmest Regards
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myeyes2020
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Spyros,
I don't understand. With the recognition from the University of Tulsa and a wealth of music degrees from Greece, being Greek yourself and having 7
years of teaching experience, and the noble desire to share, it appears that you are avoiding answering a simple question. I don't know Greek and
you are telling me to go research Greek music that contains Ushshaq Musri after you boldly stated that there are AT LEAST 10 songs that contain this
maqam and its behavior. Are these songs and Byzantine music such a mystery with no names that can only be auditioned in your home?
As a knowlegable Greek person who considers me a friend and desires to share with members of the forum, surely you are able to make my life easier by
giving us the names of those CD's. Especially if you have access to them in your home. This way we can all learn.
| Quote: Originally posted by spyros mesogeia | To me it's a normal Ussak....there are more than 10 Greek songs that have this behaviour from Asia Minor....and they are atleast 300 years old....
|
Surely when you made this statement, you must have had a clear picture in your mind of at least 10 songs that use maqam ushshsaq musri.
So Dr. Spyros,
I'll ask the question again.
What are the names of the 10 songs (or at least a few) that are at least 300 years old that use ushaq masri and its behavior that I described above
and on what cd's are they found?
1
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spyros mesogeia
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Dear Adel,
We are 20 miles away,you can always come and discuss exactly what you want to know.
All the best
Spyros
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oudman
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the scale descibed in the thread is correct
D, E, F, G, A, B half-flat, C, C
but whats very important in the movement of this maqam is the C below the D (as opposed to the usual C#), that gives this maqam its specific
flavor.
Heres a good example of ushaq masri in Abdel Wahabs kol dah kan leh
[file]29183[/file]
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spyros mesogeia
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As I said Before and I will say it again,
The exclusivity and the Parthenogenesis does not exist so often,
One of the reasons that I haven't respond for such a long time is the fact that I like to see,thing...judge and after to respond.
For those that they Know Byzantine Music,they will have to take a look at Sound Fourth Hard Diatonic starting from Pa note,and Sound Fourth Soft
Diatonic starting from Pa.In Greek
Ηχος Δ' Σκληρος Διατονικος
Κατα Μεταθεση στο Πα,και
επισης Ηχος Δ' Μαλακος
Διατονικος κατα μεταθεση
στο Πα.
A lavta [Politiko Laouto] can solve all these issues instantly,you should try it .
God Bless you All
S
P.S.That is what Unite us after all.... Music
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Brian Prunka
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I was checking out the Amar foundation podcast and was reminded that there was a thread here about Ushaq Masri. Here is the podcast with many musical
examples and history of the maqam:
http://www.amar-foundation.org/061-maqam-ushshaq-nedhamuna/
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