Zulu
Oud Junkie
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Registered: 6-21-2004
Location: Austin, Texas
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Bone vs. Wood Nut
I'm having a problem that I see many have had.
Fine tuning the wound strings (especially the low C)is very difficult because they jump at the nut.
A string will be just a bit flat and the smallest turn of the peg will cause the string jump to sharp because it catches the winding. You can hear the
string click on the nut (not string against string in the peg box)
I have a Sukar Model 13 with a wood nut.(photo attached)
Some have said that this nut is preferred by Sukar for a reason; others say replace it with a bone nut.
I've read many attempts to solve this with applying graphite, soap, etc. at the nut but my question is this...
Will a bone nut solve or at least reduce this problem?
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Hatem_Afandi
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Hi Zulu,
The majority of the ouds made in Iraq and Syria have ebony nuts. Even bulletin boards in that area will be speaking strongly about that.
The opposite is in Egypt. Every luthiere there works with either bone or plastic nuts.
I replaced all the nuts in my ouds with bone ones. The blank nuts you can get in the US are of excellent quality and the results are usually
significant improvement in the overall quality of the sound and the way the oud feels in your hands. Just make sure that you get a good luthiere to do
it.
Good luck,
Hatem
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Zulu
Oud Junkie
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Cany anyone tell me who should I trust in Los Angeles to replace my nut?
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Hatem_Afandi
Oud Junkie
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You mean "THE OUD NUT" 
Sorry, Zulu, I couldn't help it.
Good luck
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paulO
Oud Junkie
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You could check out Viken Najarian -- http://www.oud.net. Or check with John Bilezikjian http://www.dantzrecords.com, and see if he has any other suggestions.
Regards..Paul
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
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Zulu, what I meant is that to replace the nut is much more delicate than it would seem. The exact depth and shape of the grooves affects many aspects
of the instrument. So much so that the material per se is secondary, and you could save yourself some cost, downtime and risk if you touch up the
existing nut. If someone is to do it for you, make sure it's an oud specialist, as this is quite different from violins or guitars.
Sukar ouds tend to have shallow nut grooves in a medium hard wood. It's still softer than bone, and easy to touch up. But why do you think changing to
a hard material would automatically solve the problem, which is rather intrinsic to wound strings of this sort? I have never seen it go away entirely.
A very deep/gripping nut groove helps a lot, rather unexpectedly, but it's hard to get it just right. I have an oud that is a dream that way, but I
don't fully understand why.
Bone nuts do sound different, the bone blanks are indeed high quality, but when you finger/fret a string it will sound different than an open string,
right? So which will sound more like a fingered oud string: an open string on a bone nut or a wood nut? Where frets are involved, the nut on the other
hand should be as hard as possible. I think this issue has a lot to do with Sukar's approach to nuts. There are lots of details you can pimp a Sukar
ride on, especially where you override his cost/price constraints, but the cat's smart, with an engineer's mind, and I believe he has a good reason
for every one of his design decisions.
You will make up your own mind, but after a lot of trials, I've come to the personal conclusion that on a decent oud's nut it's best to make small
incremental improvements and then leave it alone as built, accept the reality of the medium unless there's a structural defect. Given the geometry and
the strings' windings, how could such a system fail to have SOME tendency to "jump/click"? It's worth examining exactly how it's happening. Some ouds
click worse than others, and it's like pegs, some are more finicky overall than others. You can fill the strings' windings a bit (right at the nut)
with paraffin or other materials, use various lubricants, from dry soap to paraffin to graphite, change the groove shape and depth, etc. It can always
be improved, but just installing a bone nut doesn't do it, and a nut job can mess the action and the timbre up many different ways. My two cents'
worth.
The PVF strings are quite stable and long-lived once they stretch out. THAT seems to take forever. Meantime, just tune up as needed, no big deal. The
timbre is great except where you want that old style Egyptian sound, and nylon sounds better there.
Palmyrami are always an adventure. WikiLeaks embassy staff notes includes some observations on Middle Eastern mind set that are applicable. Not for
the faint of heart or innocents who take things like prices, Newtonian physics, statements of fact and schedules at face value. It took the American
diplomatic corps 444 days to negotiate release of the Teheran embassy hostages in 1979-80 -- not exactly stellar. You did far better, what was it, 100
days? It's a bit like a Beirut theme park ride included at no extra charge. Another way to look at this is that if Switzerland is at one pole,
Palmyrami is at the other. Shopping in Switzerland is not very exciting.
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ameer
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My gripe with Sukar nuts is that one of the grooves gave way under tension that a bone nut took just fine. Other than that I liked the one I had.
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Zulu
Oud Junkie
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Good points Fernand,
I love the action, timbre and every other aspect of the oud so I will live with the nut as is for now.
Look for my new book soon "How to Palmyrami in 100 Days"
Hey, let us know when you are going to have another Oud Fest at your place, I'd love to show up!!!
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DoggerelPundit
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My 2 cents...
Why is this not a problem with classical guitars--even cheap ones--using wound strings of identical construction, e.g. La Bella?
Can the problem be traced to one wound string tightly riding over another up in the peg box?
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Zulu
Oud Junkie
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Doggerel,
I think the problem arises from the severe tilt of the pegbox on an oud vs. the primarily straight string path on a classical guitar.
This causes far more tension against the nut.
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DoggerelPundit
Oud Junkie
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Zulu, that's a good point, to be sure. My experience though (with 6 different ouds) is that the problem moves to different strings (or none at all)
each time I change strings. Note: all the nuts involved are bone.
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
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I'm not sure I understand what's going on. Yes, the angle makes the windings much more likely to catch. Yes the strings rub in the pegbox. On many
guitars the problem is there, just more subtle. And yes it unpredictably waxes and wanes, and migrates from string to string, from oud to oud. It's
like the law of conservation of nuisances. If it's better on one oud, it will be worse on another. That's why it seems futile to try to cure it.
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paulO
Oud Junkie
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The consistency with which each individual string is manafactured varies -- material composition is within some allowable tolerance. Wound strings,
with winding tensions, spacing between the winds, and the consistency of the materials can make matters more unpredictable. Then the oud changes a
tiny bit from time to time, just enough to make tuning a real hassle. Futile to try to cure it, I vote yes. The more ouds you have, the more
frustrating it is (what only 6 ?).
Cheers..Paul
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Zulu
Oud Junkie
Posts: 149
Registered: 6-21-2004
Location: Austin, Texas
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I agree it cannot be cured but I also do not believe that efforts to reduce the severity are futile.
Just as many may not have completely cured but lessened peg sticking, buzzing and a number of other problems, I'm sure I will at least find a happy
medium concerning this particular issue.
Thanks for all suggestions, comments and opinions!
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
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Location: San Francisco, California
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Most everyone with a can-do attitude who encounters the oud for the first time thinks he can improve it. Those who have been through that phase are on
this earth to temper the enthusiasm of the newcomers, who want to install mechanical tuners, saddles, petrochemical finishes, turn signals and
rear-view mirrors. After a while we come to appreciate most shortcomings as being the result of smart compromises, and to love the oud all the more
just the way it is. If you can reduce the clickies without demolishing the instrument, great! 
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