ICE88
Oud Addict
Posts: 27
Registered: 9-26-2010
Location: Buffalo N.Y
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Info on oud
Hi,
I purchased an oud a few months back on craigslist for $80 and wanted to know more about it. For example, maker, quality, type of wood, or any other
information. Also, I was wondering if it is a good oud or bad oud. Here are some pictures.
Thanks for the help
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John Erlich
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1463
Registered: 8-26-2004
Location: California, USA
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Hi Ice88,
It's hard to tell about the quality from the photos. It does not look like a "fine" or "professional" quality instrument, but it looks better than
instruments for which I have paid much more than $80. If you want to know the builder, there should be a plate inside the instrument. Look through
the rosette at the inside of the bowl. There should be the builder’s plate there, probably in Arabic. Can you find a way to photograph it?
Regarding quality, here are some things to look for:
-Tuning pegs: A good oud has smooth tuning pegs that look uniform and well-milled. They should protrude (stick out) from the peg box about the same
distance (on both ends). They should turn smoothly and evenly and not slip after you have tuned the instrument.
-Nut: Should look smooth and evenly milled, not "rough." Should look like a hard, not a soft wood (or whatever other substance is used). When you
tighten and loosen the strings, they should tune up and down SMOOTHLY, not popping up or down in tune suddenly.
-General construction: The oud should look well-milled and fitted together. A well-made oud is built smooth and even-looking with a minimum of wood
filler (preferably: NONE).
These are just a few of the characteristics to look for.
Hope that helps!
Best,
“Udi” John
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ICE88
Oud Addict
Posts: 27
Registered: 9-26-2010
Location: Buffalo N.Y
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Hi John,
Well inside the bowl it says "Bavly export" and it gives a phone number an address and website. It's the same tag that is shown in the picture. I'm
thinking it's a mass produced oud that was made in a factory and not an individual.
P.s that export website is http://www.bavlyexport.com/
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John Erlich
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1463
Registered: 8-26-2004
Location: California, USA
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Mood: Oud-Obsessed
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Hi Ice88,
Typically, even mass-produced ouds have a plate on the inside of the bowl that gives the name and address/phone of the maker.
Best,
JE
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Bavly is a generic label that Mid-East Manufacturing imports ouds under. Like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Egyptian-Deluxe-Soft-Case-Pick/dp/B004I6L3TY/...
For the money, with a case, you got a good deal. These are simple instruments quite suitable for learners. They seem to be made by several workshops
in Egypt. The sound will not be as refined as on an oud made of harder woods and with a thinner soundboard, but it could sound anywhere from passable
to quite decent. As long as the neck is straight and the soundboard isn't buckling, you can get good use out of it. If you search on this forum you
can find a lot of tips on how to get the most out of such an instrument, it can be optimized in many ways. It is strung with 5 courses now, which is
common, but you probably will want to learn on a 6 course oud, and the bridge and nut should be ready to accept 11 strings. You should get a full set
of good strings, like these
http://ostriemusicsupplies.com/marioud-ar.htm
Measure the height of the strings over the fingerboard and examine the nut and bridge. You want the string height at the neck-body junction to be 2.5
to 4 mm, ideally under 3 mm. I once posted some equivalents in US coin stacks if you don't have a little metric ruler. It looks like the strings are
not looped ideally and you can lower the action when you restring by looping them properly.
If the instrument doesn't have any structural defects you may enjoy it for years, or at least until you are ready to get a much fancier oud. Try to
find a teacher locally and get OudProf's "Learn Maqamat on Oud" DVD on e-bay, because the oud opens up a world of completely different scales that
really bring the oud into its own, and why limit yourself to stuff you already know? it's a great tool at the price of a single lesson.
Congratulations and welcome to the wonderful world of the oud.
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ICE88
Oud Addict
Posts: 27
Registered: 9-26-2010
Location: Buffalo N.Y
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Hi fernandraynaud,
Thank you for your help. I really do appreciate it. I just bought a set of 6 pyramid orange label oud strings. I really would like to learn the oud by
a teacher but unfortunately there isn't any in my area who can help me so I'm forced to learn on my own which is really difficult because I don't know
the first thing about music. You mentioned in the post about strings being looped properly. Is there a certain way they should be looped? My
I'mpresson was you run the strings through the bridge, loop the end of the string at the beginning of the bridge and your finished. Actually I tried
to follow this guide http://www.oud.eclipse.co.uk/stringing.html
Thank you 
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Mood: m'Oudy
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I assume you meant you got 6 pairs? Until you know more about strings, get an Arabic SET and not individual strings, as it's easy to damage an oud by
using the wrong tension strings. The Daniel Mari set is a good-sounding and safe set that's pretty low tension. If you don't have a chromatic tuner,
get the free AP Tuner for the PC or Pano Tuner if you have an iPhone/iPad. For starters tune to (from low to high):
CEEAADDggcc
This gives you a consistent relationship between all the courses except the bottom drone string that you retune depending on what you are playing.
Many people tune the EE course FF, and you can always retune to that, but EE is better if you want to also play Western music.
For stringing, the guide on David P's site is correct, though many people string so pegs labeled 9 and 11 anchor the lowest double course, and 10 the
lowest single C string. It is best to string in the numbered order, starting at 1.
As to looping, thin strings call for the rightmost method, and the fattest wound strings can use that too or, if you can be sure they won't slip, you
can use either of the leftmost methods. Then, while the string is still unattached at the peg end, pull it tight, shoving the loop with your
fingernail towards the bridge, repeatedly pulling the knot tight, and rotating the loop downward, so the string sits as low as possible on the bridge.
After the string is wound onto the peg, but before pulling it fully taught with the tuning-peg, you revisit the bridge and make the final bid for
as-low-as-possible. When the string is pulled tight it is still possible to rotate the loop upward to raise the action, but the reverse becomes
impossible.
The loop positioning gives you a few precious millimeters of adjustment of string height above the soundboard. Since the neck-body junction is 1/3 of
the way from the nut to the bridge, 6 mm of adjustment at the bridge translates to only 2 mm of adjustment at the neck-body junction. If the action is
too high in spite of all efforts, i.e. over 4 mm for a percussive timbre or over 3 mm for a zingier timbre and faster fingering, you must explore
corrective measures. This is an often-discussed topic on this forum, as the small range of action adjustment that can be effected by fiddling with the
loop is one of the familiar curses of the traditional oud.
In the absence of mechanisms to adjust the neck-body angle (which you find on a Fadi Matta or a Sukar), the action height is determined when the neck
is glued to the body. Over time, the settling of immature wood (the material of choice for inexpensive ouds) tends to elicit twisted geometries,
unplayable actions and other preludes to the traditional "neck job", a savage surgery that makes all things right again, while testing both your
relationship with your luthier and the depths of your wallet. Maintaining a steady humidity in the oud's habitat can help postpone this experience,
but if it starts out with a high action, you have to deal with it.
Desperate alternatives to the "neck job" include drilling new holes lower on the bridge, gluing on a layer of fingerboard and reworking the nut,
planing the existing fingerboard (and reworking the nut), not to speak of time-honored existential remedies such as "sticking it deep in the closet"
and "cursing and smashing the damned thing." Let us know how high the strings are above the fingerboard, right at the neck-body joint.
The more expensive oud tends to be more carefully made, using hard and long-aged woods that resonate better/louder and are less likely to crack and
twist. Ebony or rosewood pegs in properly reamed holes also facilitate tuning. But there's a huge range in prices and designs. Egyptian instruments
are seldom finished like Steinways anyway, and some of the plain ouds sound really good. The true dogs are only good for potting yams, but yours looks
decent, and with a little beginner's luck, a lot of reading and applying some care and devotion, you might make your Bavly a source of great joy for
quite a while.
I think that this forum, sites like maqamworld.com, OudProf's DVD, and searching for "oud" on YouTube will serve you well in the absence of a live
teacher. If you aren't going to be memorizing a specific repertoire, it's definitely worth getting introduced to improvisation in the Maqam context.
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ICE88
Oud Addict
Posts: 27
Registered: 9-26-2010
Location: Buffalo N.Y
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Mood: Happy
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Wow thanks for the advice. It seems to me that I have a lot to learn. When you mentioned measuring the point of "the neck-body joint", is this the
point were the nut meets the neck?
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BaniYazid
Oud Junkie
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Registered: 8-20-2010
Location: France
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neck-body junction
Here you can measure the action.
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ICE88
Oud Addict
Posts: 27
Registered: 9-26-2010
Location: Buffalo N.Y
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Mood: Happy
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Thanks BaniYazid,
Sorry for the noob questions. So the distance from the fingerboard to the string should be 3 mm?
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John Erlich
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1463
Registered: 8-26-2004
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Oud-Obsessed
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Hi Ice88,
Find yourself a good teacher, listen to the masters, and practice hard. Hopefully, you will soon pass from playing like a newbie to playing like a
Nubi (Nubian). )
All the best,
John
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ICE88
Oud Addict
Posts: 27
Registered: 9-26-2010
Location: Buffalo N.Y
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy
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Hi John,
lol thanks for the advice I won't give up my passion for this instrument. My biggest inspiration for wanting to learn the oud is Sakher Hattar. He
produces the most beautful pieces of music I have ever heard.
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