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Music
Oud Lover
Posts: 22
Registered: 8-23-2011
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Hi. New to ouds, not to stringed instruments.
Hello. New to Ouds, looking forward to learning more about them. I was recently on the prowl for one to use in a background role during a recording
session.
Came across one for a reasonable price, interior label dates it to 1970. It is missing some veneer near the bridge, needs a new nut fabricated and was
missing a couple pegs. I'm good with basic luthiery so I bought it.
The only catch is that it's heavily embellished- some people love that and it is quite pretty, but that sort of thing normally isn't my style.
Is anyone experience with playing this type of Oud? Is there any loss of 'traditional Oud intonation' because of all the inlay?
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BaniYazid
Oud Junkie
Posts: 225
Registered: 8-20-2010
Location: France
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Hello,
Welcome
The decoration on the back don't influence the sound, but it could on the sound board. There's lot of ouds with this type of inlay which sound
good.
Just put strings and try it.
If you live in Europe : http://www.music-strings.de/index.php?k=32&lang=eng
In the USA : http://oudstrings.com/index.php
For more information on how to choose string and tuning your instruments (semns to be arabic and not turkish style oud you have) :
http://www.oudcafe.com/stringing_and_tuning.htm
Give us feed back
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Stringish
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While most newer ouds that have this kind of decoration are poor quality, this seems to be a pretty good find. Many fantastic ouds have lots of
inlay, it isn't a problem in principle.
It looks like it might be a Bedrossian oud.
Can you read what the label inside says, or take a photo?
It might sound amazing, or not . . .
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Mehran
Oud Junkie
Posts: 210
Registered: 4-27-2006
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Yo! Looks nice! Soundboard and fingerboard look like they are in good condition. Any idea what the inlay materials are?
I always get jealous when i see people stumbling upon such cool ouds.
Get some strings on it - lets hear how it sounds!
Mehran
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Music
Oud Lover
Posts: 22
Registered: 8-23-2011
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Thanks all. I'll see if I can't get a pic of the label... Right now, I guess I'm going to be fabricating a new nut.
Are there any preferred bone types for Oud nuts?
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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Mr Music, this looks cool. It could be a real find. Somebody's been playin' this puppy!
The nut can be made from a standard guitar bone blank, and you can adjust the height with a little spacer under the nut. But many ouds have wooden
nuts - it adds to the not-sharp-sounding ethos. You can sharpen and zingify the timbre with bone, or Egyptianize it with wood. If you like long
sustain and zingy, a coating of tough varnish on the fingerboard can make a big difference in tone (and slow down wear). But this oud will most likely
favor an Egyptian timbre. Most Egyptian ouds have a wooden nut.
The nut has to be carefully made. Shallow grooves are easier and more common. You will have some "click" as the wound strings' winding passes, and
that makes exact tuning tricky, but that's a manageable issue. I have one Egyptian oud with a bone nut that has very deep grooves - the strings are
all the way in. It happens that this works very well here and consumes the wound strings' click so effectively that this oud has the easiest tuning,
even though the pegs are nothing special. But to get deep grooves just right is tricky, so most nuts end up being made by the "barely a file's bite"
school.
The strings should start out less than a string's thickness over the fretless fingerboard. If you can slip a business card under the strings all the
way up to the nut, the action is too high. At the neck-body junction the strings should be as low as 2 mm over the fingerboard for a more Turkish
zingy sound, and as high as 4.5 mm for that very Egyptian percussive sound. You won't have much choice in the matter, there's no adjustment, so if you
check it with a steel ruler or a string from a bridge hole up the neck, and find that the action ends up over 5mm at the neck-body junction, the
contraption will be rather unplayable, and you will have to do some work before it's worth stringing the instrument. This is the common curse of the
common oud, since the neck is normally fixed. To lower the action without removing the neck you can 1) loop the strings as low as possible 2) drill
new holes in the bridge if the strings will then have enough clearance over the pickguard area 3) plane the fingerboard increasingly towards the nut
and install a new nut lower down to get a new angle if the inlays are deep enough to plane/sand into or 4) glue on a new fingerboard and install a
higher nut to give you a flatter plane. Finally Method 5 involves cutting off the neck and resetting it at a sharper angle back.
You have 10 pegs? You can set it up a as a typical 9 string Egyptian or find one more peg to get the 11 string 6 course "modern oud".
Once you know this isn't some antique on which the very scratches add historicity, the face can be cleaned and maybe fine steel-wooled, inlays and
all, but don't goop it down with waxes or varnishes. If it's unfinished that's a positive omen. If it's shellac'ed that's a good omen too. If it's
varnished, it's not as good, but you can lighten that with a bit of steel wooling.
Given all the collectors in our little community here, a photo of the label can likely identify the maker and vintage.
Especially if you might be restringing, the price of strings counts. I like Daniel Mari's set for Arabic tuning, good strings, not too heavy, not
expensive, a no-brainer. Ostrie Music Supplies sells them for $8.99 a set or $7.99 if you buy 2. Oudstrings.com has a wider selection.
http://www.ostriemusicsupplies.com/marioud-ar.htm
PVF sounds brighter than nylon on the plain strings. You can buy just the plain strings, or read up on fish-line "premium leader" -- it works very
well.
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Music
Oud Lover
Posts: 22
Registered: 8-23-2011
Member Is Offline
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Ferdinand, your post was tremendous. Thank you so much.
The kid didn't know what it was and had it marked as a mandolin.  ) My first
thought was "Holy s#%*@, look at that pretty Oud..." Once I saw the price and realized he had no idea what he was dealing with, I didn't have to think
too hard. Bought it.
It definitely is a working, playing instrument and not a cheap, decorative tourist piece.
It's pretty high quality all around. I don't know much about Ouds specifically, but I know a lot about stringed instruments and a bit bout inlay and
marquetry- I can identify the difference between actual quality and stuff made to look like quality to sell to people who don't know any better. This
thing has a ton of man hours in it...
Anyway, objective 1 is to trace out the pattern for the veneer pick guard thing and get a new one fabricated. Then, fab a new nut. After that, I'm
going to get it stringed and tuned and adjust the action.
My hope is for a duller, softer, more muffled tone for use in a background role in the studio, not the 'bright' tone everyone seems to like for solo
instruments. If it has the softer, weaker tone, I'll be keeping it. If it has a bright, stronger tone, I'll probably sell it to someone who can put it
to better use than I and use the money to fund the purchase of a Oud that has the dryer, weaker tone I'm after.
Anyway, I'll have it set up in the shop probably tomorrow and will give a full set of pics, including the label.
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Music
Oud Lover
Posts: 22
Registered: 8-23-2011
Member Is Offline
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you know your Ouds 
Carabed Der-Bedrossian, per the label (Fabrique 1970)
Is that a good or bad thing?
I see this one asked a handsome price, but I realize the details are everything and I don't know the details of this stuff.
Anyway, got a little time to start working on this. The top is unvarnished, which I understand is a good thing? It has some smudging, but nothing too
bad. Also, I'll have to reglue the rosette, which came loose in one spot. It has a small crack in the top, but nothing major. I'll need two pegs, so I
guess I'll post an ad in the forum...
I'll take pics as I go and post them here.
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Music
Oud Lover
Posts: 22
Registered: 8-23-2011
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Did some googling on Bedrossian. Seems like they might be a good make?
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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You can easily control the tone. If anything, in a mix it's hard to make ouds stand out. Go with nylon top strings, and a softer pick (risha). If that
action is a liitle high, that will help.
For a pick guard I found some (cherry) veneer at a wood store, and that worked well. The hardest part was preventing splitting while cutting it out. I
applied a good bit of shellac and let it dry. Then sanded and finished. It's easier doing all that before you cut it out. Then taped the whole back
with ordinary scotch tape. Then a scalpel to cut it to match the tracing of the original. The tape keeps it from shredding and cracking. Hopefully the
old one will come off with a little heat from above. You can glue with liquid hide glue, it's certainly strong enough, easy to undo, and easy to clean
up any excess glue after you've applied enough pressure to flatten.
The excess glue on the label is not uncommon. Could be original. Out of sight, out of mind.
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Music
Oud Lover
Posts: 22
Registered: 8-23-2011
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The only thing that's aggravating is the pick guard has an inlay piece smack dab in the middle of it, so this is going to require having to break out
the calculator and shop math to get right- not only to duplicate the dimensions, but to account for the 'inner triangle' I have to cut out. It almost
looks like a black walnut or rosewood pickguard.
Either way, kinda crazy to hold it and realize how much human labor went into this marquetry.
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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Stop complaining. You make me green with envy. I just KNEW this was a good one.
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billkilpatrick
Oud Junkie
Posts: 563
Registered: 1-3-2004
Location: italy
Member Is Offline
Mood: what?
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normally it's not my style either but that's a beautiful looking instrument you've got there! - mega complimenti!
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Music
Oud Lover
Posts: 22
Registered: 8-23-2011
Member Is Offline
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This might help 
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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You bad man, you MONSTER!
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BaniYazid
Oud Junkie
Posts: 225
Registered: 8-20-2010
Location: France
Member Is Offline
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I'm jealous !
May you play it in good health and share with us the sound and beautiful view of your oud
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Stringish
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Wow, you scored big time.
Bedrossian ouds generally range from good to great.
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Ararat66
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1025
Registered: 11-14-2005
Location: Portsmouth, UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow yellow
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You jammy dude
What a fine purchase
Leon
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ultragroove
Oud Maniac
Posts: 68
Registered: 1-9-2010
Location: Naumburg, Germany
Member Is Offline
Mood: Athar Kurd
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can you please post a link to the actual auction on ebay for this "mandolin"? would be interesting... and a sound sample would be great. btw. cool
story bro'...
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Music
Oud Lover
Posts: 22
Registered: 8-23-2011
Member Is Offline
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Quote: Originally posted by ultragroove  | | can you please post a link to the actual auction on ebay for this "mandolin"? would be interesting... and a sound sample would be great. btw. cool
story bro'... |
For various reasons, I don't want to link to the actual auction (one of them being I'm too familiar with human nature and it's a virtual certainty
that someone out there will contact the kid to rub his nose in the mistake, which I do not want). It is what you'd expect. An otherwise honest sale,
he just didn't know what he had or take the time to do much research. I did email him for more information after I had the Oud in hand- he purchased
it at a yard sale.
Sound sample coming shortly- I'm in the process of refitting with a new nut.
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Music
Oud Lover
Posts: 22
Registered: 8-23-2011
Member Is Offline
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The more I look around, the more I think I just want a newer Oud with a full scale neck and get this Bedrossian oud to someone who will appreciate it
for what it is (and pay what its worth).
Where are you guys selling your better Ouds? Is ebay the way to go here?
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ExtreamTarab
Oud Junkie
Posts: 185
Registered: 8-31-2006
Location: Montreal, Canada
Member Is Offline
Mood: ...Lessa Faker...
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Hey Music, I sent you a U2U...
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Music
Oud Lover
Posts: 22
Registered: 8-23-2011
Member Is Offline
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Got a nut cobbled up- strong tone, but will need a neck reset. I just want a Oud I can play right now...
If anyone wants to trade this for your new oud (from a decent maker) + cash, I'll hear offers. Prefer Chicagoland area swaps, but will hear whatever.
I got a good deal on it so I have a bit of room to share the wealth a bit, but my good fortune as far as what I paid bears no relation to what its
worth and we all know that, so lets please be realistic with inquiries.
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hamed
Oud Junkie
Posts: 293
Registered: 1-18-2005
Location: Seattle, Washington
Member Is Offline
Mood: Iss'al rouhak
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Hey, I'm in Wisconsin and might be interested, email me at hamedavid@gmail.com
thanks
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conroystoptime
Oud Maniac
Posts: 59
Registered: 2-22-2012
Member Is Offline
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Hi everyone, I purchased this oud from "Music" in August 2012 on eBay, and wanted to share an update on this beautiful instrument.
I received the oud in exactly the condition you can see in the pictures above, and handed it over to Najib Shaheen for restoration.
Najib did an excellent job, as always, in going about all the structural repairs to return this oud's beautiful tone to the world:
-- Neck re-set (John Vergara worked with him on this, I believe...thank you John, nice work!)
-- Installation of ebony fingerboard (the original decorative fingerboard's inlay was plastic, and the fingerboard had many holes...not worth
saving)
-- Original string holes in bridge closed (it had been a 5-string oud), new holes opened
-- Reinforcement of bridge with extra piece of wood
-- Installation of new ebony tuning pegs
-- Installation of new nut
-- Reenforcement and extension of braces
-- Cracks and holes on the soundboard were glued and repaired (cosmetic flaws still exist on the largest of the cracks, but the soundboard is now
solid and stable)
-- Cleaning and lacquering of bowl
-- Replacement of missing pieces of bone in purfling
Here is a video. Please excuse my beginner's playing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rKic9YOxxY
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