bulerias1981
Oud Junkie
Posts: 763
Registered: 4-26-2009
Location: Beacon, NY
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Mood: John Vergara Luthier Lord of the Strings instrument making and repair
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Humidifiers, hygrometers and humidity
Hello makers and players.
I assume at least the makers here monitor their humidity reguarly, and use a humidifier during winter months in cold regions, when the humidity is
sucked out of the air when the heat is on. I highly recommend players to do the same. Many of you have nice instruments.
Here in NY, winters are very dangerous for musical instruments. I won't go into details now, but I've seen many instruments receive damage due to dry
conditions and lack of humidity monitoring.
I have two different hygrometers (both inexpensive) and their readings are usually close. Usually I always have my humidifier going, however, mine
seems to be faulty as of lately.
I came home to a big leak on my rug, and noticed it was from the humidifier. I fixed the leak, and turned it back on. After a couple of days, I
noticed I've been feeling very odd. As if I'm sick, have a strange lingering cold. I realized, there might be bacteria and mold in my humidifier. I
open it up, and notice theres many hard to reach places. Even though I clean it regularly, there are certain spots I cannot reach. So I believe this
is putting out bacteria into the air and making me ill. (or at least feel like it) This is only a theory for now. Obviously I want something that is
easy to clean, easy to fill. After reseaching many models, and reading reviews, I have no clue what to get.
Here is the model I have now.
http://www.amazon.com/Hunter-33201-2-Gallon-Humidifier-PermaWick/dp...
What is your humidity situation? What do you do? What kind of humidifier do you have?
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freya
Oud Junkie
Posts: 275
Registered: 2-8-2004
Location: Asheville NC
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Mood: Happy in the mountains of WNC
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Hi John,
I have about a half dozen humidifiers - all over the shops and house. The one I like the best is the http://store.essickair.com/product/7v821_000/ . It is filled from a bucket rather than filling a separate reservoir and holds a lot of water so I
don't have to refill every day (except in the depths of winter). Even so, in the depths of winter I'm using about 10 - 20 gal a day in my big shop
(four humidifiers running) and barely manage to keep the space at 30%RH. At 20% and below, instruments start to crack pretty quickly. I use a cap full
of the bacterio-static stuff from time to time and haven't noticed any mold issues.
The ultrasonic humidifiers do a go job on getting water in the air but leave a white film on things (at least with my house water) so I've avoided
those.
Harry
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bulerias1981
Oud Junkie
Posts: 763
Registered: 4-26-2009
Location: Beacon, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: John Vergara Luthier Lord of the Strings instrument making and repair
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Wow.. 30% is too low for me! But the room I have to humidify is smaller. This unit Essik unit needs filters? Is it easy to clean and fill?
I have about 300 square feet to humidify. Is that machine overkill for my purpose?
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Mood: Stringish
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There are filters and additives to prevent mold etc., as Harry notes.
I always use distilled water, which seems to prevent any issues with mold, films etc.
Of course, if your situation is as challenging as Harry's, distilled water would be impractical.
I use this one (I used to have some others but they didn't work as well). It works well for my smallish apartment.
Air-O-Swiss
It says it's good for up to 650 SF.
I use it for about 350SF and use about a gallon a day, sometimes a bit less if it's not so dry.
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bulerias1981
Oud Junkie
Posts: 763
Registered: 4-26-2009
Location: Beacon, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: John Vergara Luthier Lord of the Strings instrument making and repair
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Nice to see you use a humidifier, Brian!
Do you NEED to use filters with this model? If its easy to clean, I suspect you can get away with having to use filters. Also, distilled water is a
pain in the a**!
I have a small space to do, so maybe this model is ok for me.
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Stringish
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It has a filter, but if I use distilled water I don't need to use it.
For me, it's less of a pain to get a few gallons of distilled water than to have to worry about disinfecting and cleaning the machine all the time.
For 300 SF, I think it would work fine.
I'm sure there are better ones out there, but this is the best one I could find in this price range.
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
Posts: 3485
Registered: 8-2-2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Mood: No Mood
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Another perspective.
I live - by choice - in an original log farm house (mid 19th c construction) in Canada. Although the roof space of the house is well insulated - as
are some of the walls - with leaking walls and wooden windows, the overall thermal efficiency of the house is - to say the least - somewhat inferior
to a modern, air tight, super insulated building! In keeping with our 19th C 'pioneer' lifestyle the house is heated with a wood burning stove (we
grow our own fuel wood on the property).
The ambient weather conditions in this part of Canada can be quite extreme ranging from humid, hot Summers with temperatures around 30°C+ and
Relative Humidity up to about 80% to Winter conditions where temperatures may typically reach minus 30°C or lower. The winter conditions are the most
dangerous for instruments in environments that are not climate controlled.
Low ambient temperatures equates to low moisture content of air. When this low moisture content air entering a house is heated, RH can drop to very
low levels. So in the comfortably hot wood stove heated kitchen of our old house RH may go as low as 20% (Sahara desert like conditions!). However,
other parts of the house, removed from this heat source, are maintained, naturally, at more reasonable conditions which is where I keep my instruments
- no modern climate control required!
On moving from moderate climate England to Canada some of the instruments brought with me (and made by me) suffered from a split sound board and glue
joint failures (where modern carpenter synthetic glues had been used.) The rebuilt/repaired instruments have since withstood the variable climatic
conditions without further problem. I only make instruments these days for my own use so they are constructed to survive the extremes of local
environmental conditions. In particular, sound board construction and bracing are only undertaken in the low RH winter months. Use of traditional hot
hide glue is also very important -strong glue that will slightly soften at high ambient temperatures and RH (beneficially relieving any inbuilt
stresses) but will not fail under wide ranging 'normal' circumstances.
So, I guess, the message is - if you make your own instruments to suite your own local climate - then modern climate controlled conditions are not
required (as they never were in the past) but if you have to purchase an instrument from anywhere else in the world be sure that it was made under
environmental conditions that will match those that can be maintained in your own home wherever you may live.
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Stringish
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Good points, John. As a NY apartment dweller, I can't do much to control my own heat, so it's a challenge to try to maintain consistent conditions.
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
Posts: 3485
Registered: 8-2-2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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There have been a number of recent studies by museum organisations to determine the safe acceptable ranges of Relative Humidity and Temperature for
artifacts in museums and galleries - work that may be of some interest to luthiers and musicians.
For example the papers by Marion F. Mecklenburg of the Smithsonian Museum Conservation Institute including "Determining the Acceptable Ranges of
Relative Humidity and Temperature in Museums and Galleries" and "Temperature and Relative Humidity Effects on the Mechanical and Chemical Stability of
Collections". Available for free download via a Google book search.
Interesting stuff for the scientifically minded.
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coolsciguy
Oud Junkie
Posts: 225
Registered: 5-14-2020
Location: Washington D.C.
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Hi folks,
With a colder than normal winter for the east coast of US this year, I have barely managed to keep relative humidity in my house above 30% with 2
humidifiers running around the clock. Right now RH is about 20% in my house.
I keep my instruments in the basement where temperature is around 65 F in winter time. Ideally I'd have a climate controlled spare room for my ouds
but unfortunately I don't.
This makes me thinking that the best course of action to preserve my instruments against drying out is to keep them in their hard case with a guitar
humidifier such as D'Addario GHP Acoustic Guitar Humidifier.
Can someone offer insight whether such a small humidifier will be enough to meet %50 RH inside my oud case?
Edit: Better question is whether using such a humidifier would be beneficial or rather destructive. Once I take my oud out of the case, it will be
facing 20% RH from the 40%-50% RH inside the case - this rapid change in RH may be destructive, right? One might say a consistent exposure to 20% RH
might be a better option after all.
Thank you
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