urus
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sukar 212 - beginner's neck adjustment question
Dear members,
just received Sukar 212 from ArabInstruments.
The oud's great, but I'd like to experiment a bit with neck adjustment, 'cause the strings feel too low for me.
As I never did that before (my previous oud had a fixed neck), I'd love to hear your advices and recommendations on how to do this correctly.
(I understand the adjustment should be very gentle and scrupulous, otherwise one can have serious problems, according to:
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=10789#pid74...
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=10258#pid69...
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=10966#pid75... )
Thank you.
The Oud and The Fuzz
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charlie oud
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Hi Urus,
Ok here goes:1) Losen the strings so you can get your hand inside the oud, you dont need to slacken strings completely, its best to keep some tension
on them so you can judge the action hieght you want without having to keep tightening all the strings.
2) Inside the bowl where the neck joins the bowl you will find a wing nut. If you turn it clockwise the action will become lower. If you turn it
anti-clockwise the action will become higher.
3) Only turn it a little at a time and check the action after each turn. You will need some tension on the strings to check this but not much.
4) Occasionally the nut can be an ordinary nut. If this is the case you may need a tool, small grips, spanner or similar to turn,
but usually the nut can be turned by hand.
Hope this helps, good luck.
Best Wishes, Charlie
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urus
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Thanks a lot Charlie!
Sorry, if this was a stupid question to bother you with, but I'd rather look stupid now, than a bit later trying to fix the neck)
The Oud and The Fuzz
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charlie oud
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Not Stupid at all, I felt the same with my Sukar years ago. Enjoy, they are nice ouds
Best Wishes, Charlie
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urus
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Charlie,
can you give any other recommendations on playing the Sukar 212, then ?
Like, what tuning fits more for the model?
I know it's famous for the low sound, but that's what Fernandreynaud wrote:
"I'll take the opportunity to plug UPtuning too. For some reason a Sukar 212 with a 600 mm scale seems to love being pulled up to Turkish tuning. It
blossoms on higher pitch. Maybe it would love F-ff tuning"
( http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=10909#pid74... )
I mean, while experimenting with tuning it's good to know about the reasonable limits. Any experience you can share?
Thank you.
The Oud and The Fuzz
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fernandraynaud
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No idea if they are all like this, but my 212 is very light, elegant, and very bright, compared to my sukar 1 that rules the midrange, and my 14 which
is heavy ebony (?) and rules the bass. The 212 is what I turn to for more western-style playing, with chords. In the end, because I'd have to find a
different pair for, (which was it, the DD third course?), I don't leave it tuned Turkish, it's just a bit more tension than I like with a standard set
of strings at 600mm scale, but it sure sounds great tuned high. My theory is that Sukar went down to the shorter scale to accommodate both tunings
almost on the same set of strings, but a few strings must still be optimized for the tuning you prefer.
This is not your first oud, so you know the tension that's normal. If it feels too tight, it is. A classical (not steel-stringed) guitar's strings are
like oud strings, and, interestingly, about the right gauge, so e.g. two of the guitar's 4th string can work on the oud's 4th course. On the guitar
they are pulled about twice as tight. But that gives you ready access to strings to experiment with. Arto's string calculator is a very useful way to
figure out string tension.
How low you can take the action depends on how exactly the pieces were cut on that particular oud, and it's very important not to force the nut past
finger tight, or you can strip it, or even break the retaining nail, that prevents rotation of the threaded rod, and whose head you can see on the
back of the neck. We saw pictures of such a case on this forum. It may seem that if you just could tighten it some more, the action will go lower yet,
but it's not so. Once the faces are pulled together, tightening changes nothing. A wrench ("spanner") shouldn't be used. I've never seen one, but
anybody with a standard nut there should change it to a wing-nut. To give more range one would pull the neck off and reshape the mating faces. There
are some photos and sketches on the forum of how exactly it's built.
To adjust, you probably only need to loosen the bottom string unless you have huge hands. Once the hand is slipped inside, I hold the oud by the neck
when adjusting so the neck is being pulled back and that takes the stress off the wing nut. That way you can work with it with all strings but one at
full tension. To adjust the action you can loosen the nut all the way, let go and let the neck settle forward, then gradually tighten while pulling
the neck back, let it settle for a moment, then repeat, to find the height you want. That way you're never just blindly tightening while listening for
something to snap. In can only imagine how that feels! Once you're in the zone, one quarter turn is a big change. It fully settles in over a few
hours.
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urus
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Gramercy, Fernandraynaud!
The Oud and The Fuzz
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charlie oud
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Personally, I would not tune Turkish on a Sukar oud. I would recommend standard tension Arabic string set and you can try the high 'ff' for the first
course to see if you prefer this. The oud is for Arabic oud sound. Of course if you prefer Turkish tuning then make sure you use a Turkish string set.
DO NOT TUNE TURKISH WITH AN ARABIC SET OF STRINGS this is too high a tension. Pyramid orange label is a good set for Sukar, they have firm tension but
not too high. Aquilla Nyal gut work well also, so do Pyramid custom (lute strings) but these are expensive.
Hope this helps.
Best Wishes, Charlie
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urus
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Yes, sir! 
In fact, I got used to standard Arabic (DGAdgc), and now I'm trying different variants for the bass courses (like, CFA / CEA / CGA).
Yes, I have an orang Pyramid set (650/11), and also a white one (665).
But right now I'm trying La Bella OU80 (loved their sound on me old Kubeh), they give that deep bassy sound I love. What would you say about them?
The Oud and The Fuzz
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charlie oud
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Hi Urus
Forgive me if I have underestimated your knowledge and experience.
You sound well capable of deciding on the stringing issues.
Yes, I quite liked La bella also, strong sounding.
We all experiment with strings and I sometimes think Sukar ouds tease us even more to do this.
In terms of sound many sets work well on Sukar ouds, tension is may be more important, how the string feels for both hands. Enjoy string time!!!
Best Wishes, Charlie
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urus
Oud Junkie
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No, Charlie, I didn't mean to look like "the experienced one" at all.
In fact, the more I play the oud, the more I understand I have a lot to learn, and it's the simple things that I usually miss. And, honestly, most of
the things about the oud I picked from you guys at the MikeOuds forum.
And yes, thanks for the useful info!
The Oud and The Fuzz
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urus
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in the long run, Pyramid orange label (650) worked perfectly.
it came out that La Bella OU80 is actually too low for this oud, and I had to tune her lower, like ADEadg (cause otherwise the tension would be too
strong), which was pretty funny, especially when you're playing clusters on the bass strings the way Swans did it
but she's ain't bass guitar, Fernandraynaud was right. her sound should be light, bright and clear.
so I vote for Pyramid in this case.
The Oud and The Fuzz
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permanentnovice
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Just wanted to say thanks for this thread. I jsut bought my first oud, a sukar 212, and I was wondering what the best strings were.
I was a little shocked when I looked up the price for Pyramid orange. $35!!! I'm used to $5 a pack guitar strings...Is there a good place to buy
them that won't break the bank?
Also, if any of you guys have any advice on the right risha/pick, that'd be lovely to know.
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freya
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I recommend http://www.oudstrings.com very highly. Pyramid Orange at less than half what you saw.
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urus
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ended up with Pyramid F-ff, and totally agree with Fernandraynaud.
The Oud and The Fuzz
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urus
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Hello again guys, got a question again,
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=10965
pardon my stupidity, but what exactly is "coating the soundboard with egg white"?
The Oud and The Fuzz
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