David Parfitt
Oud Junkie
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Ud Taksimleri CDs
I came across a couple of CDs advertised online recently, and was wondering if anyone on here had experience of them? There are some short clips
available and they sounds good, but you never know when a synthesizer might kick in just after the clip ends! 
The first CD, "16 Makamda Ud Taksimleri" by various artists is unfortunately no longer available - see:
http://www.tulumba.com/storeItem.asp?ic=MU9399084CG846
(Anyone have this and want to do a trade?)
The second CD, "Ud Taksimleri" by Ergin Kizilay, is by quite a well known player, but I have always thought of him as a "purveyor of cheese", shall we
say.  This disc sounds ok though, but would be good to hear others' opinions -
see:
http://www.tulumba.com/storeItem.asp?ic=MU939377DV692
Many thanks
David
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John Erlich
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Hi David,
I'm pretty sure I've got the Ergin Kizilay CD (or maybe in cassette form?). I regard his ud playing a good example of basic, typical Turkish taksim
style. I think it's worth owning one such recording. I rarely listen to it, though, because there are other Turkish ud players--Necati Çelik,
Yurdal Tokcan, etc.--whose style I find much more interesting and imaginative.
As far as Mr. Kizilay being a purveyor of "cheese," assuming the expression means about the same thing to you Brits as "cheesey" does to us Yanks
(i.e., "kitsch"/"kitschy"), my reaction is that the several recordings I own on which he performs are not (IMHO) "kitsch," but decent--although
completely unexciting--examples of folk and "light classical" Turkish instrumental music, perfect for tourists or locals with less-that-descriminating
musical taste.
Peace out,
"Udi" John
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David Parfitt
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Hi John
You could be right about the cassette - it may have been reissued in CD form?
I seem to remember listening to a few of his cassettes in a music shop (or was it an elevator?  ) in Istanbul and being rather underwhelmed, but the sound samples from this CD on the website sound ok. Assuming they
are actually from that CD of course!! Like you say though, there is other quality Turkish stuff out there I would probably reach for first.
Any thoughts on the other "Ud Taksimleri" CD?
All the best
David
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John Erlich
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Um...maybe try to get one of your friends in Istanbul to buy and send it to you in trade? (I have obtained at least one "out-of-print" Turkish CD that
way.)
ATB,
J
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David Parfitt
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Hi John
Definitely worth pursuing that idea. Funnily enough though, I managed to buy an out-of-print Turkish CD by Osman Nuri Ozpekel here in the UK
yesterday!
All the best
David
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Jono Oud N.Z
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Hi.
The Ergin Kizilay solo taksim album is actually pretty good.
He also plays with Halil Karaduman (kanun)and Ercument Batanay (yayli tanbur) who are some of the best players around so he can't be too bad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Plh5DFScctg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbX2A4CM_A4
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DoggerelPundit
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Cheese. Hmmm.
In the case of Mr. Kizilay, a quote springs to mind: Clifton Fadiman's; "Cheese - milk's leap toward immortality."
And to paraphrase an observation on two of the greats of early jazz (observed by Leonard Feather I believe) --players such as Ergin Kizilay build very
effectively on the past; players such as Necati Çelik take off, and sometimes soar, from it. Both paths are important I think.
With about 20 titles available at Tuluumba, Mr. Kizilay would appear to be a pretty prolific producer of Turkish Classical and Şarkılar
music. The 4 CD series--Ud İle Sevdiğiniz Şarkılar--and other titles are small group efforts. Having heard a number of
them, what impresses me is the consistently high quality of play from his group members, the balance of the orchestrations, and the very even
distribution of solos. As an ensemble player he blends perfectly, often staying under the violin and kanun, and providing a wonderful "floor" for the
rest of the ensemble. Refreshing, I think, in an era of balls-out soloists.
http://www.tulumba.com/storeItem.asp?ic=MU970397AH062
http://www.tulumba.com/icy_qSrch.asp?ops=s&x=&tag=&s=Er...
I have not yet heard or read that Mr. Kizilay has been acclaimed Udi by another Usta, or by the Turkish music community, but he has certainly mastered
the ancient disciplines.
-Stephen
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David Parfitt
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Stephen, great quote!! Like you say, those albums don't seem too bad - not even as much as a Mini Babybel in sight!
Jono, thanks for posting those links. That Halil Karaduman one made me dig out the fantastic recording "Classical Music of Turkey" featuring HK and
Necati Celik. I remember ordering this CD from the late Mimi Spencer many years ago.
All the best
David
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mavrothis
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Ergin Kizilay was one of the first Turkish oud players I ever heard, and b/c of the sheer number of his releases, was considered by me as the standard
for traditional Turkish oud playing for a long time.
When I was younger I was very interested in meeting as many old Greek oud players in the US as I could, b/c we are so rare here and also b/c they
experienced a hey day of music and opportunities in the 60s and 70s that no longer exists. I'm a sucker for history and anecdotal stories, even if
they are only 10% true...
I'll never forget one particular meeting I had with an older gentleman in Ohio, who due to health problems no longer even tuned his oud up. I
ecstatically gave him a copy of the Trad. Crossroads release of Udi Yorgo Batzanos recordings which I had recently discovered. He had never heard of
him (!), but immediately responded by mailing me a cassette of a Kizilay taksim album with a short note saying: This is oud, that other guy plays too
fast - he thinks he's playing bouzouki!
So, it is just an interesting phenomenon that most Greek oud players/musicians were completely out of touch with one of our greatest musicians in
recent history up until a short time ago. So much so that often, the stereotype of "party" oud was considered (and still often considered) the only
real oud sound, and even though artists like Batzanos were pushing the limits almost 100 years ago, they are seen as too progressive.
These days, though most Greeks in the US are from regions that don't recognize the oud, those that do most often see it in that very specific context:
playing chiftetelli and the occasional, heavy "OUSAK" taksim. As thankful as I am for the rare chance to work with my oud in a traditional setting
for Greeks, I do wonder if I'll ever get a request for a taksim in a makam other than "OUSAK" - Hijaz anyone? Rast? Segah?
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John Erlich
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I don't know Jono, IMHO, pairing Ergin Kizilay with Halil--a very innovative stylist--on kanoun only makes his ud playing sound more "ordinary" to my
ears.
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John Erlich
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Quote: Originally posted by David Parfitt  | Hi John
Definitely worth pursuing that idea. Funnily enough though, I managed to buy an out-of-print Turkish CD by Osman Nuri Ozpekel here in the UK
yesterday!
All the best
David |
Wow! Do you mean the CD with the fountain on the cover? How did you swing that? I've been looking for that one for a while.
-J
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David Parfitt
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Hi John
That's the one! Here is the link to the store I bought it from (at a very reasonable price):
http://www.soundtravels.co.uk/p-Ud__Solo_Series-620.aspx
There seems to have been a fault during production which means that only two long tracks show up on the CD player, when there should be ten short
ones. Perhaps they didn't add sufficient gaps between tracks? I checked with the store and they tried another copy of the CD, but it is exactly the
same. Just nice to have the music anyway though!
All the best
David
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Jono Oud N.Z
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Hi.
I agree that Halil Karaduman is much more important and innovative for sure,and Mr Kizilay's playing is not in the same league.
I do enjoy his music though, I like some of his instrumental versions of songs with the small group.
The percussion is louder than in a lot of Turkish music which is nice for a change.
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Multi Kulti
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Please respect to the masters...and Kizilay is DEFINITELY one of them!!
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John Erlich
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I think we are all entitled to our opinions, and I don't think I offered my opinion in a disrespectrul manner. Please remember the original context
of my comments, i.e., in response to David's request for opinions whether he should purchase CDs.
Ergin Kizilay is certainly a competent ud player in the traditional Turkish style...very active left hand...lots of çarpma. I am listening to his CD
right now. It's nice, but would I advise all fellow Forum members to go out and buy it? I don't know. If I were looking for an exemplar to
demonstrate to someone Turkish ud taksim style--for example, how's it's different from Arabic style--his recoreding preferable to that of more
imaginative performers, precisely because their styles are less "typical" and less traditional. But, listening, I am reminded why I don't listen to
it very often. On the other hand, if you were to ask me whose CDs you should go out and buy, I would suggest others, Necati, Yurdal, Munir Nurettin
Beken, Mehmet Bitmez. etc.
Peace oud...I mean "out,"
John
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John Erlich
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O.K.: Not to "beat a dead horse" (i.e., unnecessarily prolong an argument), but I just found a YouTube video of Necati Çelik which demonstrates why
I love his playing so much: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNz7s-loLDc&feature=related
I think that what I love is his use of silence, quiet and pauses. One reason I tend to like Arabic oud style better than Turkish ud--even though the
average level of technical skill is higher among the Turks (IMHO)--is that I often find Turkish-style taksimler cloyingly "busy" and lacking in
pauses.
Yurdal Tokcan's style is not quite as "mystical" as Necati's, but similarly makes use of pauses: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqvIl20Dg14&feature=related
ATB,
"Udi" John
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morereverb
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sorry to re awaken this after almost a year, but does anyone know if there are liner notes in English to
the above mentioned compilation(http://www.tulumba.com/storeItem.asp?ic=MU9399084CG846) ?
I have the tracks, I can't remember where I downloaded them from, but I'm not sure who the
players are.......any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks very much
lloyd Thayer
Concord Mass
usa
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David Parfitt
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Hi Lloyd
I would be interested in a copy of the tracks if possible please... Could you email me at david@oud.eclipse.co.uk ?
I have the track names, but I'm not sure who the artist(s) is/are.
All the best
David
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pirsultan
Oud Addict
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By coincidence I was listening to a CD titled Saz Eserler' ver Taksimleri - Üstadlardan Sazların Dili on the way to work today. Haven't listened
to it for a long time. The Suzinak Sakız Kasap Oyun Havası that Jono NZ linked to is the final piece from that album.
It has always been a favourite recording of mine - got my first copy on cassette in 1987 in Konya - because it brings the great Ercüment Batanay,
Halil Karaduman and Ergin Kızılay together and they are obviously really enjoying playing saz semaisiler and peşrevler together. It
opens with a great version of Mesut Cemil's Nihavent Saz Semaisi. There's lots of dynamics in the tempo etc. I remember it being such a refreshing
recording after hearing all the big TRT orchestra approaches to this music (way back then). To my mind it still stands up as one of the great
recordings of this repertoire. It must be said however that Halil Karaduman on kanun does dominate proceedings and, to a lesser extent, Batanay on
yaylı tanbur and Ergin Kızılay's role is rather subordinate though he does get one solo taksim. Each of the composed works is
introduced by a taksim mostly shared by the three players.
The sad news is that the CD does not seem to be available currently. It was released by Mega Müzik (CD012) some years back. If you come across it,
buy it!
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