excentrik
Oud Junkie
Posts: 291
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I personally would not use any type of varnish on the face of the oud- It definitely stifles the natural poly-tonality and sustain of the instrument.
For the bowl, use some all natural shellac- You can probably find it at any good hardware store.
I actually (lightly) sanded the face of an old (cheap Ali Khalifeh) oud I had to strip the varnish off, and it sounded sooooooo much better after...
Just FYI
Tarik
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
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+1 on leaving the soundboard unfinished.
For the existing finish, it depends what it is made of.
Shellac can be removed with alcohol.
Lacquer can be removed with acetone or lacquer thinner.
Urethanes and other synthetic varnishes usually require sandpaper.
Tru-oil I believe can be removed with mineral spirits and elbow grease, but I haven't tried it.
If you can get granulated shellac and mix it with alcohol yourself it will be a better finish; the stuff in the hardware store is okay but it has
chemicals in it to make it last longer, which sometimes prevents it from drying as hard as pure shellac.
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
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"last longer" --I mean in the can, on the shelf, not as a finish.
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
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Location: San Francisco, California
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In practice taking the varnish entirely off a soundboard is not always worth the effort. It's easy to do damage too. You can achieve much of the same
by sanding it down to a very thin layer and then using very fine steel wool to give you a nice semi-gloss eggshell finish that will protect it from
stains. In reality a thin coating of shellac doesn't seem to alter the sound. It's the thick goopy varnishes or oils that kill it, the more gummy the
stuff the more it deadens the soundboard. TruOil is OUT, it's great on the fingerboard, nice on bowls, disastrous on soundboards.
There's a great outfit that specializes in Shellac, the mother of crunchy, acoustically brilliant, finishes. They have all sorts and colors.
http://www.shellac.net/pricelist.html
Their 4 oz sample packages make a pint and cost about $10. That goes a long way. I can't wait to try their "black shellac" on my black Sukar Model 14
bowl whose French Polish needs touch-up. And brushing it on then steel-wooling it down to an eggshell semi-gloss, a technique I call Belgian
Polishing (you have to know some "Belgian jokes" to fully appreciate it) takes about 1/10 the time of French Polishing and can look very nice, say on
soundboards. Using plastic steel wool you can even get a subtle gloss.
As to the solvent, Polish "Spirytus" is 96% ethanol and beats denatured alcohol. I've even found it under the counter in some Polish foods stores in
California, about $18 a fifth, but it's not toxic to breathe, and leftovers can even be used to make "party favors" like the famous "turbo spiked
watermelon".
Vous connaissez l'histoire de la famille Belge qui allait vacances en Normandie? Mais ils ont vu un panneau a la sortie de l'autoroute: "Pas de
Calais". Alors ils sont rentres a la maison.
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Alfaraby
Oud Junkie
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Excuse me Sir, but what's Belgian Polishing 
I've tried to google/youtube it but found nothing !
Yours indeed
Alfaraby
alfarabymusic@gmail.com
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
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Belgian Polish is my name for French Polishing for "the rest of us", i.e. for those of us who aren't quite up to it ;-) It's applying shellac with a
brush and then working it down with ever finer steel wool. I was fed up with the streaking and headaches of French Polishing soundboards and finally
arrived at that technique in desperation. It has the acoustic advantages of shellac, much less work, and gives a very friendly semi-gloss look.
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reminore
Oud Junkie
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fyi - if it is the same french polish technique that is used on early furniture (which i'm sure it is) the shellac is def. not applied with a brush,
but rather with a small wadded piece of cotton or linen (preferably) that is dunked in freshly mixed shellac. you then apply it by quickly 'bouncing'
the linen on the would surface...this is repeated constantly until you lay down a thin layer...it dries almost immediately - lightly sand, wipe, and
re-apply until you get a deep, almost three dimensional luster...it is tricky, but certainly do-able. i'm sure there any number of you tube how to
videos...just be sure the person knows what they are doing!
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Fritz
Oud Junkie
Posts: 246
Registered: 6-14-2012
Location: Northest Germany
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Quote: Originally posted by Lute  | Hello,
What is the best varnish to use for the oud bowl neck and the soundboard without killing the sound?
Any material in particular to remove the old or bad varnish?
Where are the skilled Oud enthusiasts have gone? Help!
Regards.
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Hi !
I´m applying shellaque (french polish) on any top of Ouds, because the minimum of influencing the sound an tone quality is done with french polish.
It leaves a very thin and hard surface, wich becomes nearly a part of the wood of the top itself. Another thing keep in mind : It´s better to seal
the top than to leave it untreated, so you will be able to re-finish it after years instead of having bad scratches in the wood ore green areas on the
top, marking the parts of it where the top is most touched... It will look ugly and is almost unable to remove without thinning the top...
This is my own opinion about it :-)
Kind regards
Fritz, from the northest north of Germany
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
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Registered: 8-2-2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Shellac can be applied either as a 'French Polish' or as a varnish applied with either a brush or pad.
When brushing shellac it should be made very thin - like pure alcohol - otherwise, because shellac varnish dries very quickly, it is difficult to
apply uniformly without streaking (like any coloured varnish). Several coats of the thinned shellac are applied, lightly rubbing down between coats
(when dry) with the finest grade of steel wool (0000 grade) to produce a fine lustrous finish.
How thin should brushing shellac be? If using premixed, off the shelf shellac varnish purchased from a local hardware store (usually about a '1 lb
cut' concentration - i.e. 1 pound weight of shellac flakes dissolved in a gallon of alcohol) pour about a third of the bottle into a clean container
and add two parts by volume of alcohol (alcohol is the thinner for shellac). Allow to sit undisturbed for a couple of days. A residue will settle on
the bottom of the container - carefully decant the clear liquid into another clean container. To this add one part by volume of alcohol. This is how
thin it should be - like applying pure alcohol. Lay down a total of five coats to produce an extremely thin protective finish. I apply this finish
with a cloth pad rather than a brush but either may be used.
The best traditional finish for the bowl is an oil varnish - as used by violin makers - as it is much more durable than shellac although a shellac
finish is easily repaired.
The topic of sound board finishing (or not) has been discussed many many times before on this forum. Applying a finish to the sound board of an oud is
probably a fairly recent practice copied from European guitar makers as traditionally sound boards of ouds were left unfinished and this tradition
continues today among some luthiers. Surviving European lutes - centuries old - also do not appear to have finished sound boards (or if they ever did
the type of finish used is invisible and unknown).
To avoid or minimise dirt stains on an unfinished sound board wash your hands before playing and wear clean long sleeved clothing.
Check out the subject of sound board finishing under the topic "A FAQ's Thread" on this forum (the last entry).
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