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Author: Subject: armenian singing rebetiko?
stos
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[*] posted on 7-6-2012 at 01:48 AM
armenian singing rebetiko?


hello everybody!

I play in a band of pre-war rebetiko and we're looking to sing in the different languages of this time that were mixed in istanbul or ismir for example

we already sing in turkish greek and ladino

But no one of us speaks armenian, so it is difficult

I would like to know if somebody could advise me some armenian singing songs from the 20s or 30s, that could have the same thematics that the old rebetiko I like :
exile, drugs, prison, melodramatic love, everyday life poetry of poor people .....

thanks a looot! :)


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[*] posted on 7-12-2012 at 04:16 PM


i am pretty familiar with the pre war 'smyrneika/rembetika' repertoire...and as far as anything in armenian, the only thing i have ever heard is an old istanbul meyhane song called galatada toodoraki...the only extant version has marko melkon on the ud...

the song describes theodorakis in galata, vasilakis in beyoglu...and the refrain goes 'come here', in quick sucession :

ela do (gk.) (hortego) arm. ven aqui (judizmo spanish)

icemuz raki (let's drink raki)

this is the ONLY song i've ever heard reflecting the cultural/linguistic mix using the 4 mail languages of old istanbul.

the best verse is the last:

beyoglu's road is like clover
breasts are like nectarines
her mother is sweet, but the girl is a rosebud
look at my condition, aah my cup!

ven aqui ven aqui icemuz raki!

you can listen here... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfHAFa7h5Ow




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stos
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[*] posted on 7-13-2012 at 03:39 PM


thanks reminore!

nice song!

but I'm looking also for songs only in armenian not with mixed languages

do you have maybe other ideas?

thanks!
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hartun
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[*] posted on 1-25-2013 at 10:47 AM


hi stos i noticed this old post of yours. i can inform you on "armenian rebetiko". to tell you the truth it really does not exist, at least not the same as greek rebetiko.
you mention...
exile, drugs, prison, melodramatic love, everyday life poetry of poor people .....
some of these are topics in armenian songs others are not.

first of all it should be said that generally, when armenians sing in armenian, they are singing folk music (demotika) but when they want to play what we call "heavy music" they sing in turkish. popular songs are kadifeden kesesi, oghlan oghlan etc. chifte telli rhythm is very popular with armenian musicians. zeybek is popular but its usually instrumental. zeybek might be one song out of 20, we have it but it's not a phenomenon like greek zeibekiko. now there are some songs which musically fit into the category of rebetiko or more likely, smyrneiko, but these don't always have lyrics about the topics you mention.

exile: usually sung in amanes style such as
groong (you will find it in operatic style)
agin (from udi hrant)
many "egin havasi"s which are in turkish but are undoubtedly written by armenians.
ouske gookas (nishan keljikian) 10/8
der zor chollerinde, again in turkish undoubtedly written by armenians this song is directly about the death march of 1915. it is not sung often.

drugs, prison: these are never mentioned. armenians are never in prison :) and as for drugs the only one is a song in greek by marko melkon, tou marko to teke.

melodramatic love: now we have PLENTY of that.
the problem is rebetiko style songs in armenian exist but most are not on CD.
the songs of udi hrant:
parov yegar
siroon aghchig
srdis vra (which we already talked about)
ghurgeet - chant (amanes)
anoush yaren heratsa
hoknadz durtmadz

now we come to vart kaghelen but this is too light to be like a rebetiko song.

everyday life poetry of poor people...

there are many songs by a guy named edward boghosian who was born in istanbul in 1900 and came to new york in 1920. he was still alive around 1970 but i dont know when he died. he was basically a comedic singer. but sometimes his topics were "dark" (for armenians!) such as ... gamblling, infidelity, unrequited love, arranged marriage, yes everyday life. he sang soode soode which is the most popular armenian kef song (this is what we call our rebetiko, "kef music") soode soode is about eat drink and be merry because everything in this world is fake, everything bad happens to me but i forget it by eating and drinking. armenians are from the center of anatolia so really there is not a difference between rebetiko and demotiko, they are much more similar in the armenian culture. the only difference maybe is "armenian rebetiko" means chifte telli. you can find edward bogosian on itunes, his album has been illegally ripped and is sold on there. but then there are many armenian artists from the 20s you will not find such as karekin proodian. this man played turkish, he played armenian folk, and he played "kef music". in armenian music it all melds into one. it's not as dark as greek. usually the topic is love and the girl doesnt pay attention to you. reuben sarkisian is another on itunes but he isnt dark at all really. but he plays a mean chifte telli! entitled "zouk teller" which means the same in armenian.

many songs are about love and everyday life and it is hard to distinguish between folk and "rebetiko" except maybe one is "darker sounding" or we say "heavy". i have written too much!

so to summarize:

go to itunes:

download

edward bogosian - armenian comedian singer

reuben sarkisian - armenian fiddler in california

richard hagopian - "best of armenian folk music" has the songs i mentioned parov yegar, ghurgeet, etc.

richard hagopian - kef time detroit - sheg mazerov, hele hele
kef time - huseynigin sazera, soode soode, kale kale

udi hrant - the song "agin" and "siroon aghchig" (you have surdis vera)

if you want to know the meaning of a song ask me!

also the album to what strange place includes several armenian kef songs http://www.amazon.com/What-Strange-Place-Ottoman-American-1916-1929/dp/B00A8NJOXS/ref=tmm_other_meta_binding_title_0

high aghchig char aghchig
ouske goukas
chinari aghchig (sheker oghlan turned around)
egin havasi (marked accidentally as o markos botsaris)
groong
dle yaman
keriyin yerke (this is a fedayee song which means armenian revolutionaries against the ottoman empire)
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stos
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[*] posted on 1-28-2013 at 03:39 AM


wow hartun thank you so much!

it is really wonderfull information!

I'm really happy that in a near future thanks to your help there will be songs from our brother armenian to in our band!


thanks again!!:bounce:
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[*] posted on 1-29-2013 at 12:17 PM


I cannot find the song you mentionned about the death march : der zor chollerinde

do you have maybe a version that I can hear?

thanks a lot!
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[*] posted on 2-1-2013 at 02:34 PM


hi stos. first of all this whole thread really should be moved to the "ouds ouds ouds" section i think?

anyway, there is a rebetiko style version of the der zor song. however it is on 78 rpm. I dont have time right now to transfer it but in the future I can send it to you if you give me your email. or i dont know if there is another way to send it, you tell me.

the only one you can find on the internet is from a folklore collection where a man just sings the song with no instruments.

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?cowellbib:17:./temp/~ammem_5g...
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[*] posted on 2-1-2013 at 02:45 PM


most armenians don't even know this song exists...the old timers did not want to remember those days, and it wasn't really passed down. for armenians, it wasnt like the greek exile where they just threw you out of your homeland. everyone was killed, the whole society and all one's family members. armenians were happy to reach aleppo, beirut, marseilles, paris, USA i think they sang of happy things to forget the barbaric horrible things they saw on the death march.
(not to reduce the suffering of the greek people as well at the same time)
i remembered another musician: roupen altiparmakian
he was born during the bad times, his parents escaped and he grew up in greece, and came to america in the 60s. in greece he was a violinist, but here he became an oud player and singer. he wrote many songs usually with the theme: life is short, be happy while you are here. he also wrote the song hey valla which is a standard of armenian kef bands. he has 3 cds.
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[*] posted on 2-23-2013 at 10:48 AM


i sent a utu of a youtube link to the song
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[*] posted on 2-23-2013 at 01:49 PM


thanks hartun!

i have a little problem with my U2U box

but if you have some time you can send it here monsieur.crik (at) gmail .com

thanks a lot!
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[*] posted on 2-23-2013 at 03:25 PM


Hartun, I would be extremely grateful if you could send me a copy of that track.
Jonathan3 2 3 AT. mac.com

I dont know the song at all

Thanks




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[*] posted on 2-25-2013 at 09:16 AM


guys, although i do own a copy of the 78 someone else happened to put it on youtube. thats what I was sending in the u2u:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtcSavLRWpE

they have a lot of other armenian stuff. i cracked up when i saw proff-kalfayans personal record label. saroyan wrote about him as a pompous ass and it looks like he was. but vahan boyajians a great performer i have several of his 78s

the first verse is

der zor collerinde yarali cokdir
gelme doktor gelme caresi yokdir
bir allah'dan gayri hic kimsem yokdir
millet ugurina giden ermeni

in the deserts of der zor there are many wounded
don't come doctor, don't come, there is no cure
aside from the one God we have noone
armenians going for the sake of the (Armenian) nation

other versions have "dininin ugurina giden ermeni" armenians going for the sake of their religion. some versions each verse changes, "millet", "din", "evlat" (the state), etc.

"armenians going" refers of course, to being deported from their homes and walking on the death march

"millet" the nation - means the armenian ethnicity not a political nation. as you may know the ottomans ruled by religious segregation, the greek patriarch had to answer to the sultan for the "rum milleti" armenian for the "ermeni milleti" etc.

now jonathan to ask you a question...on a very old post you wrote that channakale ichinde was written by oudi boghos...where did you get this information from. and is it well known? because if true that is very very ironic.

there is an explanation about the der zor song here: http://www.cilicia.com/armo_geno-songs.html

and heres a recent article i just found about the researcher who did the above study: http://asbarez.com/56992/verjine-svazlian-discusses-53-years-of-col...
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[*] posted on 2-25-2013 at 09:20 AM


oh and by the way...in the first article written by svazlian, the turkish makes no sense until you realize there is some kind of formatting problem and the g with a line above it turns into a "u" with an accent mark.
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