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jdowning
Oud Junkie
Posts: 3485
Registered: 8-2-2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Thanks for adjusting the image size Steve - that's great. Keep us posted if you decide to undertake the restoration yourself. Thanks for your kind
offer to send the string fragments for examination. I shall send you a U2U with contact information. Please record the position of each fragment on
the bridge before removing it.
Brian - the master lute makers of the 16th C also appear to have contracted out work to specialist suppliers (according to surviving workshop
inventories) - including sound boards with the rosettes already "cut in". Lute making then was big business!
chaldo - I shall be undertaking a 'blow by blow' account of a geometrical analysis of a 1921 Nahat oud based upon coordinate measurements recently
provided by FastForward - see 'Analysis of Nahhat Bracing' topic. So this should give some idea of how to measure an oud and analyse the data
collected, what to look out for, and tools required etc. I could then complete that project with a list of measurements to be recorded. This will
apply to sound board and bracing geometries.
Bowl profiles and geometries are more difficult to measure as they may not be of semicircular cross section or conform to the sound board longitudinal
profile as is often assumed. Accurate measurement of a bowl profile requires employment of a special apparatus (although easily constructed).
Alfaraby - I have done quite a bit of work recently in attempting to establish if there is a common geometrical design basis used by the old lute
makers and oud makers. This is an ongoing 'work in hand' project. Some of this work has already been reported on this Forum as well as being published
in the FoMRHI Quarterly.
As a result, I do not believe that the old luthiers went to the trouble of creating elliptical profiles for their sound boards (even if they had the
mathematical knowledge to know how to do it) when it is possible to produce an almost exact elliptical curve by simply joining together arcs of a
circle with differing radii traced with a pair of dividers. Albrecht Dürer made this clear in his books on geometry for the craftsman and artist way
back in the 16th C.
I do not know what is meant by a "formula of growing ellipses" either but it sounds like some kind of modified ellipse - but even more complicated
than a 'simple' elliptical curve no doubt?
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allthesound
Oud Admirer
Posts: 7
Registered: 7-30-2012
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[/ rquote]
Steve, congratulations for your discovery and thanks a lot for providing this information the forum 
Where are you located ? I think it would worth showing the instrument to an experienced luthier for advice.
Dan[/ rquote]
Thank you Dan , I live in Connecticut . I have a acquaintance locally that received his training and accreditation of furniture conservation at both
the Smithsonian Institution & Metropolitan Museum of Art. I'm sure he could offer some helpful advise. As well i have a few friends that are very
experienced luthiers that could help as well.
I also spoke yesterday with a very gracious man in NYC Najib Shaheem who kindly offered to take a look at it and lend some advise as well.
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allthesound
Oud Admirer
Posts: 7
Registered: 7-30-2012
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Quote: Originally posted by chaldo  | Hi Steve, thank so much for the images and for your interest in saving this oud from 1-garbage, 2-botched repair 3-fireplace winter heating, etc...
If I can ask for a favor in my name and for all Mike`s Oud forum members interested in Nahat oud research.. can you please measure the distance
between every brace just like shown in the photo I am attaching. Also some info on the braces, their height and thickness.
Actually I would also call on John to please provide some sort of questionnaire database entry to enter distances, thicknesses and so on..
to make it easy for people to research and for people willing to donate the details of their nahat ouds.
James, this would definitely help answer some questions asked in this thread: Analysis of Nahhat Bracing... and other threads.
thank you again
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I would be happy to take as many measurements as possible and share them here. I will post as them soon.
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Danielo
Oud Junkie
Posts: 365
Registered: 7-17-2008
Location: Paris
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Don't worry then, your oud will be in good hands 
Here is Najib playing another Nahat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EoR3Q7p_Ek
| Quote: Originally posted by allthesound |
I also spoke yesterday with a very gracious man in NYC Najib Shaheem who kindly offered to take a look at it and lend some advise as well.
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Alfaraby
Oud Junkie
Posts: 796
Registered: 9-18-2009
Location: Holy Land
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Mood: Cool
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John dear ! I was talking about the bowl !
I use to read every post of yours, so I've stated I can count on you. I still do.
Sorry for asking, but where is this oud located ? This might help choosing the right person to take this job, a very hard work of restoration.
Some who may: John Vergara, NYC, Najib Shaheen, NYC, Viken Najarian, LA, Mathias Wagner, Wolfgang Fruh, Europe, Nazih Ghadban, Fady Matta, Lebanon,
Isa Awad, Damscus, Kamil Mowais, Nazareth, Yaron Naor, TA . Who else ? Any suggestions?
It would be very interesting to film the most important minutes of the work. We might learn a lot from watching.
Good luck
Yours indeed
Alfaraby
alfarabymusic@gmail.com
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Mood: m'Oudy
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Let me say the unspeakable: that Nahat Najib is playing sounds nice, but I don't hear anything magical. What am I missing?
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Mood: Stringish
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That one can't hear the difference between a good oud and a great one from a iphone video on youtube?
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Alfaraby
Oud Junkie
Posts: 796
Registered: 9-18-2009
Location: Holy Land
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Nothing at all Fernand ! You're right !
Here is the real thing :
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=p78NIcSohYc
Enjoy
alfarabymusic@gmail.com
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
Posts: 3485
Registered: 8-2-2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Another interesting feature of some Nahat ouds is the use of multiple piece sound boards - seen in this oud and the image posted above of the oud
restored by Michael Cone - with up to 6 individual pieces making up a sound board. Not only that but the wood grain is often irregular, wide spaced
and sometimes wildly erratic - nothing like the perfectly fine straight grained stuff sold in the luthier trade today as costly first grade 'tonewood'
(for wild crooked grain see the example of an oud by Abdo George Nahhat, 1906 posted on Richard Hankey's website (third image from the left - http://www.droud.com).
Some discussion on this can be found on this forum on the 'Multiple piece soundboard' topic
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excentrik
Oud Junkie
Posts: 291
Registered: 5-19-2004
Location: Refugee Status...
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I know for a fact that Nazih Ghadban is an authority on Nahats... Email him the pics- He's an awesome person to deal with...
-Tarik
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bulerias1981
Oud Junkie
Posts: 763
Registered: 4-26-2009
Location: Beacon, NY
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Mood: John Vergara Luthier Lord of the Strings instrument making and repair
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I am in NY. I'd like to take on a project like this and bring this oud to its fullest/original potential. Where do you reside, allthesound?
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1370
Registered: 12-18-2002
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
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What you have is a rare and valuable antique. I urge you to take it to a person with proven experience restoring these instruments, particularly
Nahhat ouds. I would expect the restoration to cost at least $2,000, but the oud will be worth several times as much if it is faithfully restored to
its original design. If you cannot afford this cost, please consider selling it rather than trying to restore it yourself as your first oud project.
You need many years of experience to develop the skills and knowledge necessary. Without these abilities and background, you run the risk of ruining
the oud, and it may not be recoverable.
I have spent over 40 years studying the construction of ouds, and many of those years pursuing the "secrets" of the Nahhat family of oud makers. I
have successfully restored 12 Nahhat ouds and have made much of the information available in my book on Oud Construction, which is based on a 1910
Hanna Nahhat. There still remains the issue of technique and skill to properly restore a valuable antique like this. There are a few qualified
individuals who can do this work. Just be sure they don't suggest replacing any parts, if so, cancel the job immediately and find some one else who
will restore it faithfully using all of the existing parts. The face is missing some sections, but it's better to patch pieces in than replace the
entire face. The sound producing area of the face is intact and must be restored to achieve the original characteristic Nahhat sound. If the face is
replaced it will diminish the value a great deal, maybe by half.
Please don't attempt this by yourself, it is not a simple or easy project, as the risk is losing another valuable and irreplaceable historically
significant instrument. Many of these ouds have been ruined by technicians qualified on other instruments like guitars, violins, even Turkish ouds,
etc, but without the specific knowledge and experience with Nahhat ouds, the outcome is not a restoration, but rather a hybrid that may not work and
may not be recoverable.
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Mood: Stringish
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Allthesound, should take John V. up on his offer if he's still paying attention. This oud is a piece of history that needs to be carefully restored.
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jiggo
Oud Lover
Posts: 19
Registered: 6-4-2012
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There is some history in that oud!
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1370
Registered: 12-18-2002
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
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Mood: better than before
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http://www.droud.com/Nahhat.html
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