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Alfaraby
Oud Junkie
Posts: 796
Registered: 9-18-2009
Location: Holy Land
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Another Carbon Fiber Oud
ALL-IN-ONE PIECE CARBON FIBER OUD:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVbk1sKxytk
8 built so far.
Except for the soundboard, fingerboard, pegs & combined floating-fixed upper bridge, it's all carbon fiber one piece oud. Very light, still extra
strong, as carbon fiber is.
No action adjustment ever needed, no cracks caused to the bowl because of accidents, no paint issues, no polish or refreshing polish .. etc.
I met the luthier last weekend. Philip Shaheen from Tarsheeha, Upper Galilee, (yes, yes, a relative of Simon's). Remember this name
pretty well.
Very interesting nice young man & a gifted player as well. We had a very long exciting debate about the sound making process.
The young man got the talent, knowledge, open mind, passion & desire to learn & benefit from anyone ... even from me.
See, listen & tell us all what do you think !
Yours indeed
Alfaraby
alfarabymusic@gmail.com
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ameer
Oud Junkie
Posts: 458
Registered: 9-14-2009
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Interesting sound. I'll have to try and meet him next time I'm in the area.
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Multi Kulti
Oud Junkie
Posts: 252
Registered: 1-27-2004
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Mood: skaataa!
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I have nothing against innovations and i would love to play it...but i think it deserves another name because Al Oud means "WOOD" and thats the magic
about this instrument..the beauty of the wood..
Nikos
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Alfaraby
Oud Junkie
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I totally agree Nikos !
I suggest "Carboud" or "C FOud" 
Yours indeed
Alfaraby
alfarabymusic@gmail.com
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ALAMI
Oud Junkie
Posts: 643
Registered: 12-14-2006
Location: Beirut
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It sounds very oudy to me, after all the main elements that create the sound: the face, braces and fingerboard are still wood.
It is practical to have the option of a rugged, weatherproof oud for travel or unfriendly environments.
Could also be interesting to sell the one piece fiber bowl, neck and pegbox to other luthiers that still can produce their own sound. mass producing
it can open a way for more affordable high quality ouds.
Would be interesting to experiment with a full fiber oud in one piece like those cellos:
http://www.luisandclark.com/
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Microber
Oud Junkie
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Registered: 1-20-2006
Location: Belgium - Liège
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Quote: Originally posted by ALAMI  | It sounds very oudy to me, after all the main elements that create the sound: the face, braces and fingerboard are still wood.
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I agree with you Alami. It also sounds good to me.
I think I would prefer a good fiber glass oud than a bad wooden oud.
But, yes, wood is so nice !
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Bodhi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 168
Registered: 2-26-2012
Location: North West England
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To be honest I think were looking at the future of most instruments there!
I certainly wouldn't say no.
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jiggo
Oud Lover
Posts: 19
Registered: 6-4-2012
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Very nice craftmanship. I appreciate innovation but still my opinion is that to this day wood instruments have the best sound.
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SamirCanada
Moderator
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Registered: 6-4-2004
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Bravo.I think it was very tastefully done. I wonder why the use of a saddle bridge.
In my experience it has a effect on the sound it is helpful to amplify but I prefer regular bridges. It must take some great skills to work the cf
that well just pay attention to the details around the pegbox etc. About it being affordable, I thought CF was rather expensive
@samiroud Instagram
samiroudmaker@gmail.com
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dubai244
Oud Junkie
Posts: 490
Registered: 3-8-2004
Location: Dubai, UAE
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I guess, this is a turning point for oud making and we are witnessing, from this new invention, new era of oud making. I am windering how it would
sound if the oud made from fiber plus double sound board ?! 
Alfaraby, thank you very much for high-lighting this new invention and share it with us.
Thanks
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fadel
Oud Junkie
Posts: 875
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Location: saudi arabia
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hi
thank Alfaraby
i see like this oud from bahrain
but this oud good sound
thank u
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
Posts: 3485
Registered: 8-2-2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Of course building musical instruments from reinforced plastics is not new as some lutes, guitars and bowed instruments were being made this way
decades ago.
Nevertheless it will be interesting to see how this latest development for oud making turns out and whether or not the instruments will gain general
acceptance compared to traditional wooden ouds. This was not the case for plastic lutes made in the 1970's as the market demanded traditional
construction but then CF ouds, hopefully, may be a more successful niche market.
One thing to mention is that although Carbon Fibre reinforced laminated plastics are strong they are also brittle and may fail under relatively low
impact loadings (i.e. if an oud is accidently dropped onto a hard surface - yes it can happen!). Failure of the laminates under these circumstances
can be catastrophic.
Also as Samir correctly observes that the materials are expensive (not to mention the cost of the molds and manufacture). So it would be interesting
to know the current cost of the CF ouds as well as the overall weight of a completed instrument compared to an all wood oud?
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SamirCanada
Moderator
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that's what I thought John.
Another thing i did notice, the face of the oud is attached to a wooden rib which is then attached to the carbon fiber bowl. This is really clever,
that way the conection from the face to the back is wood to wood.
@samiroud Instagram
samiroudmaker@gmail.com
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Alfaraby
Oud Junkie
Posts: 796
Registered: 9-18-2009
Location: Holy Land
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Thanks all for the ongoing interest in this thread.
Philip is still trying to find some time to register and become one of us. For the time being, he wrote to me as follows:
"ANSWER TO jdowning AND TO SamirCanada
"although strong, they are also brittle and may fail under relatively low impact loadings"
This should not happen when you keep the proper ratio between carbon and epoxy, what I did in this case. Moreover, the geometry improved at the box by
adding longitudinal tunnels along the oud curvature. It strengthen the box and helps to absorbs the shock
at the time of impact at the same time (sorry I had to think about it beforehand ☺ .
"materials are expensive (not to mention the cost of the molds and manufacture)"
Yes it is, the process is also complicated and not cheep. But I built it in order to be affordable. This issue is being currently discussed
with our friend Jamil (Alfaraby). I am not worried about the price, announcement will come soon.
Carbon Weight: 570 gr
Total Weight: 1100 – 1150 gr
"Innovation never stops"
Be ready for more surprises in the near future.
Thanks everybody for this objective discussion and support. I will gladly accept any criticism you'd come up with.
Truly yours
Philip Shaheen"
alfarabymusic@gmail.com
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baseelo
Oud Addict
Posts: 35
Registered: 11-13-2012
Location: Michigan, U.S.A.
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Wonderful job Philip!!
I think that the best invention that any oud maker could come up with is a pegbox/pegs that minimizes the possibility of the srtings going out of
tune. This is an issue that is important to any oudy. So please put it on your future agenda of things to do!!
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Luttgutt
Oud Junkie
Posts: 578
Registered: 1-10-2009
Location: Norway
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Mood: Curious
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Well done!
This Might be a good solution for people who has to travel a lot with the oud.
What are the dimention? String length? Would this be available in turkish size?
Good luck
The wood might be dead, but the oud is alive.
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Alfaraby
Oud Junkie
Posts: 796
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Location: Holy Land
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585 mm, Turkish size.
I told Philip he should have done it 61.5 like most of the Arabian ouds. He said: the next 20 k$ !
OMG ! how expensive these experiments are !
I doubt if he's up to Turkish & I mean Turkish tuning, not size. At least not in the coming few years.
Yours indeed
Alfaraby
alfarabymusic@gmail.com
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Luttgutt
Oud Junkie
Posts: 578
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Location: Norway
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Thank you alfaraby!
The wood might be dead, but the oud is alive.
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Alfaraby
Oud Junkie
Posts: 796
Registered: 9-18-2009
Location: Holy Land
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Some photos
For those who haven't seen the video, here are some photos of the CF ouds of Philip Shaheen
Hope you like them.
Yours indeed
Alfaraby
[file]25217[/file] [file]25219[/file] [file]25221[/file] [file]25223[/file] [file]25225[/file] [file]25227[/file] [file]25229[/file]
alfarabymusic@gmail.com
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stos
Oud Junkie
Posts: 263
Registered: 9-29-2008
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hello!
could we maybe have an idea of the prices of thos ouds?
thanks!
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Alfaraby
Oud Junkie
Posts: 796
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It's still hard to price these ouds. The costs are very high due to the ongoing experimental process. I may dare and say that with no profit
whatsoever, it could easily reach somewhere beyond 1500 $. Once the luthier concludes his experiments, buy large quantities of CF, make as much pieces
as he wishes on the mold, the costs would be reduced, and the price (+profit) would be about 2000 $ +- !
This is only my personal guess/hunch, not based on what he could have said on this issue.
Time would tell !
Yours indeed
Alfaraby
alfarabymusic@gmail.com
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fadel
Oud Junkie
Posts: 875
Registered: 6-5-2007
Location: saudi arabia
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hi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTa0NpgL7Uo&feature=youtu.be
thank tareq
salam
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fadel
Oud Junkie
Posts: 875
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Location: saudi arabia
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hi
good work master philip
salam
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MatthewW
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1031
Registered: 11-5-2006
Location: right here
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Mood: Al Salam
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Bravo to Philip Shaheen, I find his carbon fiber oud a most welcome addition to the world of ouds. 
Personally, I have no problem calling it an 'oud', anyone buying or selling one would of course indicate it was a carbon fiber oud; perhaps calling it
something else may even detract from it's professional qualities, anyway let's leave that to Mr Shaheen to decide, n'est pas?
I've seen and heard carbon fiber resonator guitars made by the NZ company Beltona, they are excellent quality, much lighter than the traditional
metal-bodied style resonator guitars, and well respected by other guitar players into this style of playing delta blues, slide guitar or similair. No
one has a problem calling it a guitar, though Beltona makes several models and each model has it's own name, like 'Southerner', etc.
As far as weight, I never considered the oud a heavy instrument!
One question that comes to mind is would the carbon fiber oud's sound mellow or improve at all with time like a wooden oud, or would it stay about the
same as when new?
regards, MW
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1370
Registered: 12-18-2002
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
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Mood: better than before
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Years ago I collaborated with a composite engineer/oud player to develop a carbon fibre one piece oud. I sent him a 3D CAD file I used to document the
1910 Hanna Nahhat I used for the Oud Construction book. The file was converted to a CAM program that produced the plug to build the mold for the oud
body, neck and pegbox all in one piece. Unfortunately I cannot find any pictures of the oud, and I lost contact with the engineer after he
unsuccessfully tried a carbon fibre face on the body - it sounded awful. Carbon fibre can be designed to produce sound waves similar to wooden
soundboards, and has been done in the violin family for several years.
http://www.allthingsstrings.com/Instruments/SELECTION-PURCHASE2/A-B...
A carbon fibre soundboard has not been done yet, to my knowledge. This oud by Mr. Shaheen only proves the case that the back is only a structural
element and only provides a chamber for low frequency sound wave reflection. The sound is fine, but it comes from the wooden face without any affect
from the carbon fibre.
The finite element analysis (FEM) model looks impressive, but in fact wood cannot be accurately modeled because of its anisotropic characteristics.
This means that wood is not a homogenous material due to the variation in density, ring spacing, moisture content, etc., so it cannot be modeled with
any conclusive accuracy by FEM. Modeling an oud face is rather moot anyway since there is thousands of years of experimentation by oud makers that has
only shown that the face design is as variable as the material. This is the real key, many designs work, it's the fine tuning to match the
characteristics of each individual piece of wood that makes an oud sound great, not some specific design.
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