Jody Stecher
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1354
Registered: 11-5-2011
Location: California
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Turkish Oud For Sale
I have for sale a lightly used Turkish oud from Ankara made in the workshop of Saedettin Sandi in 2001. It is the equivalent of the high model VMIU 50
now offered by Cankaya Music. Bowl is alternating wenge and padauk. Extended fingerboard. Pegs are wenge and unique and work perfectly. Simply no peg
problems at all. Scale is 58.5 cm. Some unique and lovely red line inlay on the ebony fingerboard. Spruce top. Excellent condition.
I got this oud from forum member Mavrothi Kontanis at a time when I was more familiar with Arabic oud and wanted to get a quality Turkish instrument
at a moderate price to see if could play some Turkish/Greek/Armenian music. It turns out I sorta can and am selling it because I took the plunge and
availed myself of the recent sale prices offered by Faruk Tarunz. ( I got the maple and ebony one). This new oud (Turkish voiced) is a step up in
quality but that doesn't mean I have any complaints about the Sandi. I just have limited space and time and I want this excellent oud to continue to
be played and enjoyed. I've loved playing it, now it's someone else's turn. Here's what Mavrothi wrote about this oud:" it responds ridiculously
easily, meaning that it gives you great tone, projection and body to your notes while making you feel like you are barely exerting any effort. "
This oud has a lot of power. Sometimes it sounds like it's going to explode. The bass roars so that I've come to think of it as "Hurricane Sandi"
I am selling it for what I paid for it (minus what I paid for shipping) as it is no worse for wear and I've had it only 9 months. The oud is $975,
the Najarian case (in good condition) is $150. I would rather sell locally (San Francisco Bay Area, USA) but would consider shipping as I've saved the
box in which the new Faruk Tarunz oud was shipped to me.
A link to Mavrothis playing this oud:
http://www.oudsforsale.oudcafe.com/Sandi_PWE.html
you will see a notice saying the oud is no longer available. That means Not Available From Mavrothi. It IS available from me.
this web page has some photos too. Here are some others:
[file]25195[/file] [file]25197[/file] [file]25199[/file]
[file]25201[/file]
[file]25203[/file]
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oudme
Oud Admirer
Posts: 4
Registered: 1-16-2013
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Hello,
I am interested in this oud... Would you take $900 all in (with case) I will pay shipping? thanks, n
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Jody Stecher
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1354
Registered: 11-5-2011
Location: California
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Quote: Originally posted by oudme  | Hello,
I am interested in this oud... Would you take $900 all in (with case) I will pay shipping? thanks, n |
Thanks for your inquiry. The price is fair and represents a slight loss for me ( I'm asking less than I put into it). This oud today is at least as
good as when I got it. The case has never been outside so it is exactly as I received it. The oud has been played frequently, and I hope tunefully,
so it may be that is even more responsive than when I received it. For these reasons the price is firm.
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Jody Stecher
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1354
Registered: 11-5-2011
Location: California
Member Is Offline
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Still available, still sounds great.
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purplebird7
Oud Admirer
Posts: 4
Registered: 2-20-2013
Member Is Offline
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Have some questions. Please check U2U.
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bulerias1981
Oud Junkie
Posts: 763
Registered: 4-26-2009
Location: Beacon, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: John Vergara Luthier Lord of the Strings instrument making and repair
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These are great ouds.. love Sandi ouds. Lucky is the owner that gets this.
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Jody Stecher
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1354
Registered: 11-5-2011
Location: California
Member Is Offline
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That's right John. Thanks for that.
And the lucky new owner is......purplebird7. Hurricane Sandi is moving to eastern Nebraska!
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purplebird7
Oud Admirer
Posts: 4
Registered: 2-20-2013
Member Is Offline
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Hurricane Sandi! What a name!
She'll be happy with me. Maybe a little lonely for her kind here, but you never know. Nebraskans can be surprising.
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Lute
Oud Lover
Posts: 14
Registered: 2-4-2011
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Dear Jody Stecher,
NEW VMIU-50 OUDS - from the maker, Saadettin SANDI, Priced at US $500 including hard case, and a very good shipping price of $50. Please see the link
below:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Saadettin-SANDI-Bahadir-SANDI-HANDMADE-TU...
My question is, why would I buy your used VMIU-50 Oud for $975 when I can get a NEW VMIU-50 OUD for $500, please let me know?
Warm regards.
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Jody Stecher
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1354
Registered: 11-5-2011
Location: California
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Without playing the ebay Sandi oud I cannot know whether it is equivalent in quality to the one I was selling, or better than it, or worse. There is
one difference between them about which I am certain. The one on ebay is for sale. The one I offered here on the forum is not. It sold over a month
ago. The buyer is happy. The price I asked is the price I paid. Your question seems to assume that all specimens of a particular model of oud will
sound the same and will respond the same. That is not true. They do not. Even at the workbench of a single experienced luthier there is no predicable
outcome. Ouds made in the factory or factories of Sandi are also subject to the variables in the wood. Even two ouds made from the same boards of
timber of the same tree (not just the same species, but the identical tree) do not ever turn out identically. It has never happened. The advantage of
the oud I sold is that is that it is tried and true. If an oud has been played for 12 years and nothing has gone wrong, that is a high recommendation
for the oud. It is precisely because it is not new and has been been played by good musicians who found it reliable and pleasing to play and hear,
that it may be worth more than a raw untested new oud of the same model. Worth is a subjective question and is a private matter between buyer and
seller. I have played about half a dozen upper models of Sandi ouds and they were each different. The oud on ebay may be excellent. If it is, the
price is a bargain. But it won't be the oud I had for sale. It will have its own characteristics. If you think it is a bargain and you are actually
wanting to buy a Turkish oud, perhaps you should buy it right away.
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Lute
Oud Lover
Posts: 14
Registered: 2-4-2011
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by Jody Stecher | Without playing the ebay Sandi oud I cannot know whether it is equivalent in quality to the one I was selling, or better than it, or worse. There is
one difference between them about which I am certain. The one on ebay is for sale. The one I offered here on the forum is not. It sold over a month
ago. The buyer is happy. The price I asked is the price I paid. Your question seems to assume that all specimens of a particular model of oud will
sound the same and will respond the same. That is not true. They do not. Even at the workbench of a single experienced luthier there is no predicable
outcome. Ouds made in the factory or factories of Sandi are also subject to the variables in the wood. Even two ouds made from the same boards of
timber of the same tree (not just the same species, but the identical tree) do not ever turn out identically. It has never happened. The advantage of
the oud I sold is that is that it is tried and true. If an oud has been played for 12 years and nothing has gone wrong, that is a high recommendation
for the oud. It is precisely because it is not new and has been been played by good musicians who found it reliable and pleasing to play and hear,
that it may be worth more than a raw untested new oud of the same model. Worth is a subjective question and is a private matter between buyer and
seller. I have played about half a dozen upper models of Sandi ouds and they were each different. The oud on ebay may be excellent. If it is, the
price is a bargain. But it won't be the oud I had for sale. It will have its own characteristics. If you think it is a bargain and you are actually
wanting to buy a Turkish oud, perhaps you should buy it right away.
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Dear Jody Stecher ,
‘Your question seems to assume that all specimens of a particular model of oud will sound the same and will respond the same.’ No I did
not.
The advantage of the oud I sold is that is that it is tried and true.’ Are the other Ouds of Sandi fakes and only yours was
true?
‘It is precisely because it is not new and has been been played by good musicians who found it reliable and pleasing to play and hear, that it may
be worth more than a raw untested new oud of the same model.’
So why the musicians mainly buy new Ouds more than second hands then? I prefer a good or new oud that has not been played by several people
and tampered with for many years! Sandi’s guarantee all the ouds, and also sends sound sample of the oud if you want before buying, so there is no
problem to have a good ouds from sandi!
Finaly, I have seen that many people attaching sentimental value to instruments. A good oud is a good oud, it doesn’t matter who played it
or not. The price of the oud you advertised was double than the same Sandi's ouds (more less), it does not make sense for me, and for that reason I
would buy a new sandi's oud, it will be newer and cheaper, and it should give many years just like the one you sold! Best of luck for the new
owner.
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2916
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Mood: Stringish
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I didn't know that musicians mainly prefer new ouds to old ones. That would explain why all those old Karibyan, Manol, and Nahat ouds are not worth
very much.
Mods, it might be best to delete this thread.
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Jody Stecher
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1354
Registered: 11-5-2011
Location: California
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"Tried and True" is an idiomatic expression in the USA, Britain, and its former colonies. When something is said to be tried and true it means it
has proved itself to be reliable.
The price of $500 seems to be much lower than the usual Sandi price for model VMIU-50. The oud pictured on ebay did not look like that model, and the
oud I sold — as you know — was not VMIU 50 either. As you also know, I sold the oud for less than I paid for it. So what's your beef? (that's
also an idiomatic expression).
When a skilled tuneful player has played an instrument it becomes more responsive. The regular touch of an unskilled, out-of-tune player can sometimes
delay a new instrument from achieving its potential. Sometimes worse things happen. But if you don't believe that or if it doesn't matter to you, by
all means confine yourself to buying new instruments, and if you don't like the price of an oud, don't buy it. Your posts imply that I am dishonest in
setting my price. Your words are implicating and sullying the reputation of the forum member from whom I bought the oud, and you are implying that
the member who bought the oud from me is a fool. This is completely unwarranted. I ask you to cease and desist.
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mavrothis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1674
Registered: 6-5-2003
Location: NJ/NYC
Member Is Offline
Mood: big band envy
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1. This specific model of Sandi oud, which I sold to to Jody last year, and which Jody then sold to someone else, has been and is typically listed new
at $1200, before shipping and customs fees. When I bought one of these models several years ago the total cost to be shipped to the US was over $1300
including customs fees. If you can find the same or similar models for less on ebay, by all means buy one. There is no guarantee on how it will sound
or play compared to this specific instrument. By the way, comparing the one I bought for full price (new) several years ago to Jody's (bought used),
Jody's was far superior in tone and projection.
2. Of all the ouds I imported to sell last year, this was my favorite for its deep, rich tone and excellent projection with little effort on the part
of the player. I could have sold it for more on the basis of its sound and playability, but decided to keep the price relatively low compared to my
assessment of its value. If you disagree with the value of this oud, that is your opinion and your choice not to buy it. Though...
3. Most relevant to this rather bizarre (and unnecessary) conversation, this oud was sold by Jody over a month ago Lute, so why are you forcing an
argument for absolutely no reason? Perhaps you're trying to give us more reasons to avoid the oud forum? Or perhaps you are just giving us a heads up
to avoid your posts specifically?
mavrothi
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purplebird7
Oud Admirer
Posts: 4
Registered: 2-20-2013
Member Is Offline
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I'd like to respond because I bought this oud, and the recent post makes it sound like I was cheated. I wasn't.
My oud was sold by Mavrothi (new) to Jody, who sold it to me at the same price he paid for it 11 years ago. It was lightly used. Given inflation,
that is a good price.
It was tested and found to be worthy by two professional musicians. I'm new at oud, and it sounds great -- even with my bad technique.
Lute: Have you bought acoustic instruments before? You get what you pay for. You can't base the price on photos and lists of specifications. You
have to hear them and
feel them. Good instruments are easier to play, even when you're learning. Mine was played by two excellent judges of ouds. Without hearing them,
you have no idea what you're buying.
So many things can go wrong with an oud. They are made of thin wood with lots of gluing, primitive tuners, and a strange design of the headstock. On
any stringed
instrument, buzzing can occur for a number of mysterious reasons.
I made the same remark to Jody when I saw his listing. "Hey, I saw ouds by Sandi for $500 on e-Bay." Yes, but they are not the same product. Many
manufacturers make lower priced models because some people can't afford better ones. If you can --do! -- buy a better one. It will be worth it.
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Greg
Administrator
Posts: 926
Registered: 7-22-2004
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Serene
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Dear Lute,
The original importer of this instrument is a well known professional musician who is very highly regarded in these forums. Based upon the quality of
this particular instrument, he sold it to a willing buyer eleven years ago and that buyer was very happy with the instrument and the price he paid for
it. Recently, he onsold that instrument to the current owner, who is also very happy with the instrument and the price he paid for it.
Mr Sandi has been making ouds for many years. His methods of manufacture may have changed over those years and a model VMIU-50 is quite possibly a
very different instrument today than the ones he made eleven years ago. There are many variables that only Mr Sandi would be aware of. Certainly, in
years past, none of his high quality ouds were available for under US$1,000 in his Istanbul and Antalya shops. (I have visited both)
For all of the above reasons, I feel the strident, and quite probably ill-informed, criticisms you have expressed in this thread are inappropriate and
extremely rude.
Furthermore, most forum members do not feel the necessity to re-size text in order to to make their points. Please refrain from this method in any
future posts.
Greg (moderator)
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purplebird7
Oud Admirer
Posts: 4
Registered: 2-20-2013
Member Is Offline
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I appreciate your post, Greg. I'm glad to have found such a nice oud from Sandi's workshop. Personally, I wouldn't expect a cheaper one to be the
same. I wasn't in the market for an entry-level instrument.
Lute, regarding the "similar" oud, 10-years-old, that you saw for sale for $400: What was it's original price? And its current condition? It is
important have the previous owner's word of honor on this.
The only way to compare instruments is to play and hear them side-by-side -- I'm sorry to say, not Internet sound files. Can you do that? If so,
please do, and post here again.
Regarding Mr. Sandi's business plan, you would have to ask him. It is wrong to conjecture about that.
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Lute
Oud Lover
Posts: 14
Registered: 2-4-2011
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by Jody Stecher | "Tried and True" is an idiomatic expression in the USA, Britain, and its former colonies. When something is said to be tried and true it means it
has proved itself to be reliable.
The price of $500 seems to be much lower than the usual Sandi price for model VMIU-50. The oud pictured on ebay did not look like that model, and the
oud I sold — as you know — was not VMIU 50 either. As you also know, I sold the oud for less than I paid for it. So what's your beef? (that's
also an idiomatic expression).
When a skilled tuneful player has played an instrument it becomes more responsive. The regular touch of an unskilled, out-of-tune player can sometimes
delay a new instrument from achieving its potential. Sometimes worse things happen. But if you don't believe that or if it doesn't matter to you, by
all means confine yourself to buying new instruments, and if you don't like the price of an oud, don't buy it. Your posts imply that I am dishonest in
setting my price. Your words are implicating and sullying the reputation of the forum member from whom I bought the oud, and you are implying that
the member who bought the oud from me is a fool. This is completely unwarranted. I ask you to cease and desist. |
Jody Stecher,
What I wrote was from my research and a constructive point of view. Also, to understand why the Oud was more expensive than the new one, or a similar
one in the current market. In addition, a while ago I saw Sandi's selling a very similar Oud for around $400 as used and it was around 10 years old
link is not available as it was sold. Thus, I was more keen to find out why yours was listed for $975. In return, you pointed that the oud was
sold and gave me your opinion, and I gave you my honest opinion and what I prefered, no more or less!
I am not implying or suggesting anything else other than what I had written and saw from Sandi's Oud, the VMIU-50 professional on Ebay, and I provided
you the link to support my finding. My first post was clear and simple. You assumed many other things that you should not have. Here it is again as a
last reminder and lets hope for no more of your assumptions, my question was; ''why would I buy your used VMIU-50 Oud for $975 when I can get
a NEW VMIU-50 OUD for $500, please let me know?''. Furthermore, since you have been lecturing me on the idiomatic expression, I urge you to
exercise this idiomatic expression of ‘read carefully and respond accordingly’, as I did not appreciate the unnecessary assumptions that you have
made!
Sandi's Oud quality remained the same, as I heard both the old and new VMIU-50 Ouds . To me they sounded more or less the same sound characteristics,
taking into account the older oud resonation! I like Sandi for his great work and realastic prices. In conclusion, if I buy directly from Sandi's, I
would enjoy a professional Oud VMIU-50 at a realistic and balanced price, I might just do that!
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Greg
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Thread Closed
4-2-2013 at 04:20 PM |
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